General Discussion

[quote name="@CaptainNyro" date="2023-06-17 19:53:12"] Honestly I'm with you on that. Nothing against those who enjoy stands, but yeah they aren't really my favourite thing either ^^; I can show him here when he's finished! I'm not sure when I'll have him ready, but I'll be sure to post him! And no problem! ^^ [/quote] [i]Oh my Stars[/i] I can't believe it, another Jojo fan who actually agrees with me on Hamon vs Stands XDD HALLELUJAH! Now to be fair, I think Stands AS A CONCEPT are a pretty cool idea but I also think it could've been executed in a much better way. First of all, I sorta understand that Araki-san simply got a different idea mid-way through the story and that's why the implementation of Stands turned out to be rather wacky, but still—I think there was [i]plenty[/i] of time in the next parts to make it seem more believable & natural as to why and how they suddenly appeared. I'm also sad that with the introduction of Stands, Hamon got completely abandoned, as if the two couldn't exist simultaneously (??) On top of that, I don't like how (especially in SDC) Stand battles resemble Pokémon fights, if that makes sense. You just have a Stand user that gives their Stand orders and watches it fight instead of actually engaging in the fight themself. I think especially SDC Stand battles would've been a lot more entertaining if they were [i]actually[/i] "Stand users vs Stand users" instead of "Stand vs Stand". Not a huge fan of inconsistent Stand rules across the series, too? Like sure, there are always some exceptions to pretty much EVERYTHING, but Stands are overall like "So this is the set of rules we need to follow, EXCEPT FOR WHEN WE DON'T". And especially as someone who genuinely appreciates consistency and logic in any media, this kinda ticks me off. XD [i]Apologies for the long rant. When I'm passionate about something, I usually don't know when to shut up. Forgive me.[/i] Can't wait to see the SPEEDRAGON then >:) Good luck w/ finishing him!! --------------------- [quote name="@Lucks" date="2023-06-17 21:43:38"] [quote name="rapsahtaa" date="2023-06-17 07:55:52"] It's now HAMON POWAH instead of STANDO POWAH Btw I can't help but appreciate & giggle to myself a bit about how your avatar dragon is Joseph while mine is Kars [/quote] @/rapsahtaa hamon forever! part 2 is the best part and I will not hear otherwise. I'm skimming through it again right now [/quote] Aye! :D I think my number 1 fav is still [i]Phantom Blood[/i] but c'mon, [i]Battle Tendency[/i] is just as awesome, haha. Gotta appreciate Joseph and all his antics. XD [s]And Karzu, of course[/s] I can relate hahah, sometimes I put on BT episodes in the bg while working on my commissions XDD Admittedly not the best for concentration but what can you do... XD

[img]https://i.imgur.com/B77cbAr.png[/img] [b][color=darkgreen]yall insp'd me 2 try scryin a jjba fandragon so[/b] [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/dressing-room/scry?sdid=3549812&skin=0&apparel=296,393,25350,457,469,454,4140,466,432,451,2846,20549,47894,744&xt=dressing.png[/img][outfit=2264902]

@Wilderthing
Dang. That looks really awesome.

@rapsahtaa really! I hardly ever see anyone whose favorite part is legitimately Phantom Blood. I have a love for it too. Whenever I see a picture of Jonathan it fills me with a feeling that's hard to describe. Love, respect, maybe comfort? He's just a really great ancestor. He is like the progenitor for all the JoJos and deserves admiration.

All that said Joseph is still my favorite because I'm a sucker for a funnyman. He's just so darn charming, truly a rascal. He plays tricks and jokes around, but also is a hot head who serves justice when his friends and family are disrespected and hurt. And has the audacity to troll his opponents in the process. Serious when it matters but otherwise goofing off, its why I love Joseph. :D

I also miss hamon. In part 3 whenever Joseph uses hamon and his stand at once it's like a nugget of what could have been. Araki hit his stride developing stands but it is disappointing in a way to stray so far from the roots of the story. No more stone masks, vampires, zombies, or tribe of hamon users.

I guess I just have to assume that the "germans" and Speedwagon Foundation collected all the masks and guard them along with Santana's pillar form, so no one can ever become a vampire again... so no more need for hamon. (Though I've got to question how they could have possibly gotten all of the masks. And really, will they guard Santana for all of eternity?)

((Not to mention all the theories on how Kars could have returned to Earth))

@Wilderthing Woah that's an amazing scry for The Fool! :D Great job! ------------------------------------------ @Lucks Haha, I know I'm a rare breed XDDDD And oh my gosh you captured my feelings perfectly! ;^; I love Jonathan so much, he deserved so, so much more and as sad as his fate was, I 200% agree that he went down in history as a true legend and role model. <3 Best boi hands down. I actually have no fav JJBA character, I love them all equally! (And each of them for different reasons XDD) I do feel an exceptionally strong emotional connection with Kars but that's beside the point. LMAO Joseph is AMAZING, and I definitely agree with everything you said! I also always perceived him as someone highly empathetic and compassionate. Just a great man to be friends with overall. [emoji=heart size=1] Yeppp, so much wasted potential here imho DD: Stands + Hamon could've been an awesome and deadly combo! And very true. I guess that's destined to happen when a new idea hits you and you're sorta forced to connect it with something you created earlier, just like Araki-san did. OHOHOHHH that's a very interesting theory :OO But yep, I also don't think it's feasible for them to collect literally ALL masks and guard Santana forever. It just doesn't make much sense. *cracks fingers* HOOO BOY, so I [i][b]did[/b][/i] actually talk about this on the forum before, but it was almost three years ago now so I guess it's fine if I repeat myself! I have this behemoth of a JJBA project called [i]The Greatest Show on Earth[/i] (hence why the tab in my lair dedicated to Jojo dragons is named "JJBA: TGSoE") and even though it started as a rather simple/straightforward and a bit silly story, eventually it turned into something much more serious and complicated pfff. Before I knew it, I realized I pretty much re-wrote the entirety of JJBA :') Long story short, it does involve the vast majority of the original JJBA cast (no matter the part), different dimensions, and Karzu returning to Earth. XDD [s]Funny how I prefer Hamon over Stands yet TGSOE is heavily focused on Stands lol[/s]

@rapsahtaa

Okay, pretty much everything you just said about stands is a summary more or less of exactly how I've felt about them too LOL. My brother and I had a discussion before about it, since I got him into JoJo, he watched the first season (parts 1/2) and really liked it, but couldn't get invested in SDC. When I first watched SDC, I was honestly SUPER confused about the stands, and where they came from, I didn't get why there seemed to be no explanation for their existence whatosever until like... part 4 I think? My brother and I theorized that Araki actually originally intended to only write parts 1/2, but ended up continuing into part 3 onwards due to the popularity... because I also find Dio's ressurection kinda... illogical tbh, as much as I find Dio entertaining in part 3. Also it kinda rendered Jonathan's death less meaningful imo ;; I prefer to see part 3 onwards as sort of a "what if" AU rather than canon but, that's just me of course.
And inconsistent rules, yes that bothers me a lot. My brother and I constantly joke about the Strength episode. (I have so many issues with that one lmao). It's like, stands can't be seen by non-stand users... except when it's convenient.
I do completely agree with you though that the concept is really cool! I would have enjoyed them a lot more if there was more consistency and more explanation earlier on, and that hamon and whatnot wasn't completely written out of the universe. I mean I've even made my own fan stand before so it's definitely not like I have anything against them haha.


@Lucks

My favourite parts are definitely Phantom Blood and Battle Tendency, though if I had to choose probably PB considering I own the physical copy of the manga too. And Jonathan and Joseph are my favourite JoJos. I can't even choose between them... I feel the same way about Jonathan as you mentioned. But Joseph is such a fun character too! I am still salty about what Araki did to him in part 4 though... not his age but the other thing... felt ooc to me idk. I feel like he could have made Josuke related like any other way lol.

I always wondered about Santana too... like did they really just leave him there forever? What if there was a power outage or something? lol

@CaptainNyro ahhhhh BLESS YEAHHHH, I don't blame your brother one bit! SDC is hard to get into in my opinion. Of course, that's just me (especially as it seems to be the most popular JJBA part), but in terms of plot (and the art style... gods, it hurts my eyes...) it was poorly executed if you ask me. And that's more than likely—I never checked whether the official sources say anything about this, but I also doubt Araki-san originally [i]planned[/i] to continue writing Jojo after [i]Battle Tendency[/i]. I love [s]Mango[/s] Dio with all my heart so I definitely am happy about his return in part 3, BUT THEN AGAIN, I think it was very poorly executed XDDDD I especially disliked how Araki-san essentially made him into a "final boss" type of antagonist, it just doesn't work for Dio as he's not that kind of person. Additionally, no one, and I say NO ONE, can convince me that Jotaro actually defeating Dio had any logic behind it. (As much as I love Jotaro and the rest of Crusaders.) It would simply not happen, lol. Dio is one of the strongest characters from the series, Jotaro wouldn't stand (hehe [i]stand[/i]) a chance against him UNLESS he had some sort of supernatural help on his side (Jonathan's spirit coming from the afterlife to rescue his great-grandson? [emoji=normal eyes size=1][emoji=normal eyes size=1]). Plus, I refuse to believe Dio would die. Dio is Dio. He doesn't die. XDDDDD And hey, that's a very valid way to look at the rest of the series! :D I already mentioned it in my answer to @/Lucks but I also pretty much re-invented JJBA with an original story of mine and tried to make the entire thing more consistent & logical pff. I got so attached to this "version" that it feels like the characters belong to me by this point XDDDDD OH DEAR [b][i]STARS[/i][/b] the Strength episode!! YES this one was so weird [s]and uncomfortable to watch[/s] I genuinely don't understand why it was written this way hahahaha I agree w/ ya 100%! And same lol, that original story of mine is heavily focused on Stands too. XD (Even though Hamon makes its appearance of course!) Also OHHH a fanmade Stand? :D Do you mind sharing anything about them? >u> AND, last but not least, apologies for butting into your conversation with Lucks, but 1) I also hate what Araki-san did to Joseph in part 4 because it doesn't make sense to me, 2) a power outage in the Foundation is a hysterical concept and I love it so much

[quote name="@Wilderthing" date="2023-06-18 08:19:15" ] [img]https://i.imgur.com/B77cbAr.png[/img] [b][color=darkgreen]yall insp'd me 2 try scryin a jjba fandragon so[/b] [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/dressing-room/scry?sdid=3549812&skin=0&apparel=296,393,25350,457,469,454,4140,466,432,451,2846,20549,47894,744&xt=dressing.png[/img][outfit=2264902] [/quote] I love that! really looks like the stand. great idea. the boston terrier is placed so perfectly where it really looks like iggy sending out his stand.

^ omg I didn't even notice before the little Iggy hiding behind the fool dragon scry, that is actually really adorable @rapsaatah Yeah one of my biggest annoyances with SDC was HOW LONG it took for Dio to actually be relevant. Tbh I feel like there were waaay too many stand users they had to go through first and I felt it got kinda... repetitive? Like there were a few I did really enjoy or found entertaining, with some good battles, like the episodes with Hol Horse, but idk some other ones were definitely like, "why did that even need to happen?" lol. And I legit forget some of the stand users even existed most of the time. Honestly one of my biggest gripes with the later parts (especially SDC) is that I feel like it focuses too much on the battles over the plot and story progression. While there were battles in parts 1/2, they never felt like they were stalling the plot but progressing it, at least for the most part. When I watched SDC, I often felt like, "hurry up and defeat this stupid stand user so the story can continue" for a lot of the battles. But this might just be a me thing too, I'm more interested in story and characters over battles regardless of what series it is. And as much as I did enjoy Jotaro vs Dio battle, I do feel the way Jotaro defeated Dio was... kinda cheap. Like, the twist came out of nowhere and I didn't really buy it. I would have totally bought Jonathan's spirit showing up and helping him to defeat Dio wayy more lmao. I know I'm ragging on SDC a lot but I actually have more issues with 4/5 tbh ;; I know a lot of people love those parts so I feel bad saying anything about them... at least SDC I would consider going back and rewatching certain episodes and I liked the main characters for the most part... but parts 4/5 I'll probably never look back at rip. For the most part I liked part 6 though... still definitely had its issues [s]WHY IS PEE MENTIONED SO MANY TIMES HELP[/s] it was probably my favourite part that involved stands [s]at least from 3-6 because I never read anything past that[/s] That's not a bad idea honestly haha. I've considered doing something similar before, but my passion is mainly with the first two parts and there is not a lot I would want to change with them. If I was to do my own version of JoJo, it'd probably be like an AU split off from part 2 and going into a completely different direction unrelated to the later parts and probably wouldn't involve stands. Though I have considered writing something completely unrelated to my version of the story that would have stands, too, idk if I'd ever get around to it. Is your story something you plan on posting or is it more of a personal passion project? I totally get where you're coming from, as I've been working on a personal fanfic since 2020 regarding Speedwagon's life before he met Jonathan. I honestly did not have big plans for it and it wasn't meant to really ever... have a lot going on, but it ended up spiraling out of control and going in a direction I never expected over the last 3 years. Now it's got a bad guy that runs a circus and this other guy that was meant to be insignificant and die in the first chapter, who now became one of my main characters. And I've written so much about Speedwagon that, like you said, he almost feels like my own character, although I'm fully aware he isn't. I guess it's more like my own version of him. I'm afraid to deviate too much from the canon though. At least with Speedwagon, Araki never really gave him much of a backstory besides "he travelled before somehow", so it gave me enough freedom to make something up that wouldn't really affect the canon too much. But yeah I don't plan to ever post this fanfic anywhere, mainly because I'm way too embarassed to share my fanfiction lol, but it is also kinda personal, so idk. Yeah Strength was pretty uncomfortable... as well as at least one other episode that you probably know exactly what I'm thinking of. Those were definitely not SDC's high points. Sure I can show the stand! I haven't done much with it for a while, but it's called Peregrine. I named it after an album/song by the Appleseed Cast. [img]https://f2.toyhou.se/file/f2-toyhou-se/images/19761573_IcC8Qjw2UvLK9n9.gif[/img] It uses arrows as its main weapon and can create a sort of "dreamland" place where the user can visit which is... kinda what it sounds like. A dream-like land basically made up by the user but nothing inhabits it. It's sort of like lucid dreaming, if that makes any sense? Because I dream a lot myself, but I also sometimes wish I could just go to a place where there are no people, but nature or nostalgic places. A past friend of mine helped me create it. They made the original base design off a few questions they asked me, but I expanded on the design, the colours and the abilities it has. I used to draw it with my old sona a lot but I haven't really drawn it much lately. omg I am so sorry I'm rambling so much ;; I haven't been able to talk about these things with anyone for over a year ^^;

@CaptainNyro *got blessed with a wall of text. Is beyond happy* Omg YES. I can't stress this enough! The majority of SDC could've been cut out and it wouldn't affect the plot [i]at all[/i]. And that's saying something. A [i]few[/i] of those Stand fights would've been entertaining, for sure, but like you said, after a while it got repetitive and just... unnecessary ._______. I think it could've been beneficial to the story, had Araki-san focused more on Dio himself and not his henchmen... There are so many amazing characters from JJBA and yet I have the feeling there's definitely not enough said about them in the series. Take the Pillar Men, for example! The original series doesn't even say what is their species' ACTUAL NAME! (Because. Come on, [i]Pillar Men[/i] was something that humans came up with. Their true name must've been different). [s]I'm really delving deep right now but bear with me lmao[/s] Also yes, the Hol Horse episode truly was something XDD [quote]And I legit forget some of the stand users even existed most of the time. Honestly one of my biggest gripes with the later parts (especially SDC) is that I feel like it focuses too much on the battles over the plot and story progression.[/quote] [b][i]^ THIS[/i][/b] THIIIIIIIIIIIIIIS!!! I agree with you! I also prefer to focus on the characters and storyline ^.^ Fights/battle scenes are extremely entertaining if done WELL, and, uh... many of the Stand battles weren't done well :'DD Also is it just me or did the Stands' abilities REALLY get more and more ridiculous and absurd as the series progressed?? [quote]Like, the twist came out of nowhere and I didn't really buy it. I would have totally bought Jonathan's spirit showing up and helping him to defeat Dio wayy more lmao.[/quote] HAHAHAHAHA oh that pleases me greatly, you have no idea XDD GO JONATHAN Oh my, seriously? That's interesting as yeah, parts 4 & 5 generally turn out to be folks' favourites XD But hey, just because something is overall liked and enjoyed, doesn't mean you cannot dislike it and share your opinions! Especially when it comes to media :> It's kinda funny because Giorno is the person who actually got me into JJBA XDD I saw him one day and I was like [i]"Who is this dude and why is his theme song literally everywhere"[/i] XDDDDD I genuinely love all JJBA characters so when I say I don't enjoy some part of Jojo, it's usually the plot and how it was handled that bugged me, not the characters. Stone Ocean is a perfect example. I didn't even watch/read it because I got familiar with the synopsis and just hated everything about the story (Apologies, part 6 fans!) To me, it just felt like it spiralled down from something [i]slightly[/i] supernatural (vampires, Hamon) to something completely absurd and illogical (Enrico's Stand and the universe reset). And as much as it is the case of my personal preferences and tastes, I [i]hate[/i] the "parallel universes" trope in media. It's literally the laziest excuse as to why something happens in the story. >.< [quote][s]WHY IS PEE MENTIONED SO MANY TIMES HELP[/s] it was probably my favourite part that involved stands [s]at least from 3-6 because I never read anything past that[/s][/quote] "Why is pee mentioned so many times" A more adequate question has never been asked before LMAAAAOOOO And no worries. I'm also absolutely unfamiliar with parts from 7 onwards, I'm just... WELL I MEAN, it's great that people are still enjoying the series and having fun, I'm just not sure if Araki-san shouldn't have simply stopped after part 6 :') Especially when it comes to Stand abilities from the uh... "new continuity" or however it shall be called? Like I watched I think a 40 minute video explaining D4C's ability and I still understood crap, so... Hey, that's totally valid :D And can be lots of fun, too! Also I think I should clarify, when I said "re-write Jojo", I meant "make things more coherent, logical and connected to each other", "un-kill all the characters that definitely shouldn't have died in the first place" and "make a new explanation for the Stands' origin". (That last part is very new pfff, I just recently had an epiphany about this XD) OHHHHH a version of JJBA w/o Stands like this sounds absolutely sick!! :O I love this! [quote]Though I have considered writing something completely unrelated to my version of the story that would have stands, too, idk if I'd ever get around to it.[/quote] I'd love to see what you'd come up with haha :D OHHHHH lemme elaborate a bit! The story itself is titled [i]The Greatest Show on Earth[/i] (or just TGSoE for short) aaaand I'm actually planning on making it into a webcomic. It's gonna require a lot of work and time on my part (which I DO NOT HAVE right now due to commissions) but I'm so fiercely passionate about this project that I'm determined to do it one day. There's... a LOT going on and there are still so many folks I need to learn how to draw properly! [s]Totally not because I'm only drawing Kars all the time, no sir[/s] OH WOW! I'd actually love to read a story like this about Robert! :D That sounds super interesting. Always love exploring characters' backstories. [i]Kinda did the same thing with Karzu. Absolute insanity I swear.[/i] [quote]I honestly did not have big plans for it and it wasn't meant to really ever... have a lot going on, but it ended up spiraling out of control and going in a direction I never expected over the last 3 years.[/quote] Well ain't that just a HUGE mood YOOOO a circus?? That sounds amazing O.O [quote]And I've written so much about Speedwagon that, like you said, he almost feels like my own character, although I'm fully aware he isn't. I guess it's more like my own version of him. I'm afraid to deviate too much from the canon though. At least with Speedwagon, Araki never really gave him much of a backstory besides "he travelled before somehow", so it gave me enough freedom to make something up that wouldn't really affect the canon too much.[/quote] Ohhhh interesting!! I'm... admittedly, I have a very weird (from a normal person's perspective) view on fictional things, especially characters, and that definitely affects my relationship with the JJBA folks. I pretty much adopted them all, lol. I like to say that Araki-san mistreated his characters (in a joking way of course, and in the sense that he doomed so many of them to death) so I had to take them away from him and give them a better life. XDD [quote]But yeah I don't plan to ever post this fanfic anywhere, mainly because I'm way too embarassed to share my fanfiction lol, but it is also kinda personal, so idk.[/quote] I'd definitely read it if you ever decide to post it! ;) But I 100% understand the "it's kinda personal" part, so do what's best for ya :D I KNOW TOO WELL WHICH EPISODE YOU MEAN HAHAHAHAHAHA [s]pain[/s] OH MY GOSH That is amazing!! :D also WHAT A WONDERFUL PIXEL ART, are you the artist???? I love it so much! <333 oohhHHHHH its ability is sick O.O I adore! As someone who has HUGE problems coming up with Stand abilities, I admire it a lot [emoji=heart size=1] yO look at my wall of text XDDDDD Listen I'm ALWAYS up for a long conversation, it brings me great joy and I'm just happy when folks ramble about things they're passionate about! <3 Thanks a lot for sharing all these things with me ^.^