No support. The smart people have come up with builds that suit the new Mire and it works pretty well.
Suggestions
Make Flight Rising better by sharing your ideas!
TOPIC | Nerf health of new toughest Mire enemies
No support. The smart people have come up with builds that suit the new Mire and it works pretty well.
[quote name="Hiriajuu" date="2021-10-23 16:19:19" ]
i've been using the 123STR build all day with no issue, the change didn't affect the smoothness of my Mire experience at all. This is being made into a bigger issue than it is in practice.
[/quote]
I've had the opposite experience. I was using the 119 STR build before, and in comparison, the new 123 STR build must sacrifice QCK and VIT. Those lost QCK points have really been hitting me hard - it takes longer to build up breath because of lost turns, and trainers can't take as many hits as they used to be able to. It's really cut down on wiggle room - previously, if an enemy dodged an elim early on and caused my dragon to lose all his breath, it's been annoying but I haven't usually had to restart. Now, I have to restart nearly every time. Like I said, those lost turns thanks to sacrificing QCK mean, if you get stuck with lost breath in a scratch mob, there's really not much you can do other than restart.
The new 123 STR build requires sacrificing any wiggle room we used to have with the 119 STR build, making for - at least in my experience - a significantly more frustrating experience.
With regards to the arguments about stagnation - what, exactly, did the new enemies accomplish? They essentially rendered two popular former builds obsolete, only to be replaced by a build that's overall more frustrating and slower. Personally, I don't exactly feel like my creativity is being stoked here.
I don't know about others who've already restatted their dragons, but I would be [i]more[/i] than happy to buy another tincture for my mire flyer if the new enemies were nerfed.
Hiriajuu wrote on 2021-10-23 16:19:19:
i've been using the 123STR build all day with no issue, the change didn't affect the smoothness of my Mire experience at all. This is being made into a bigger issue than it is in practice.
I've had the opposite experience. I was using the 119 STR build before, and in comparison, the new 123 STR build must sacrifice QCK and VIT. Those lost QCK points have really been hitting me hard - it takes longer to build up breath because of lost turns, and trainers can't take as many hits as they used to be able to. It's really cut down on wiggle room - previously, if an enemy dodged an elim early on and caused my dragon to lose all his breath, it's been annoying but I haven't usually had to restart. Now, I have to restart nearly every time. Like I said, those lost turns thanks to sacrificing QCK mean, if you get stuck with lost breath in a scratch mob, there's really not much you can do other than restart.
The new 123 STR build requires sacrificing any wiggle room we used to have with the 119 STR build, making for - at least in my experience - a significantly more frustrating experience.
With regards to the arguments about stagnation - what, exactly, did the new enemies accomplish? They essentially rendered two popular former builds obsolete, only to be replaced by a build that's overall more frustrating and slower. Personally, I don't exactly feel like my creativity is being stoked here.
I don't know about others who've already restatted their dragons, but I would be more than happy to buy another tincture for my mire flyer if the new enemies were nerfed.
I decided to give the new update a chance first and after changing stats I have to say support.
The only I feel that way this shook up the meta is reducing the viability of meditate trainers as it's harder for them to recover from missing unless the kelpies show up.
(I think the main reason for this is that scratch trainers can recover easier with sap if needed, while the meditate trainers might be more reliant on potions.)
I would be okay with an actual shake-up like a new venue that supports tank builds or stones that make other builds better/whatever the revamp will do, however having to change stats for what amounts to a few points feels more like a punishment.
In addition to this I wouldn't be surprised if it caused more complaints about bosses or dodging as now there's even less chance to recover without spamming potions.
(Also the kelpies should not be given more speed unless the enemy health is reduced as currently they're the only decent way to recover breath.)
The only I feel that way this shook up the meta is reducing the viability of meditate trainers as it's harder for them to recover from missing unless the kelpies show up.
(I think the main reason for this is that scratch trainers can recover easier with sap if needed, while the meditate trainers might be more reliant on potions.)
I would be okay with an actual shake-up like a new venue that supports tank builds or stones that make other builds better/whatever the revamp will do, however having to change stats for what amounts to a few points feels more like a punishment.
In addition to this I wouldn't be surprised if it caused more complaints about bosses or dodging as now there's even less chance to recover without spamming potions.
(Also the kelpies should not be given more speed unless the enemy health is reduced as currently they're the only decent way to recover breath.)
I decided to give the new update a chance first and after changing stats I have to say support.
The only I feel that way this shook up the meta is reducing the viability of meditate trainers as it's harder for them to recover from missing unless the kelpies show up.
(I think the main reason for this is that scratch trainers can recover easier with sap if needed, while the meditate trainers might be more reliant on potions.)
I would be okay with an actual shake-up like a new venue that supports tank builds or stones that make other builds better/whatever the revamp will do, however having to change stats for what amounts to a few points feels more like a punishment.
In addition to this I wouldn't be surprised if it caused more complaints about bosses or dodging as now there's even less chance to recover without spamming potions.
(Also the kelpies should not be given more speed unless the enemy health is reduced as currently they're the only decent way to recover breath.)
The only I feel that way this shook up the meta is reducing the viability of meditate trainers as it's harder for them to recover from missing unless the kelpies show up.
(I think the main reason for this is that scratch trainers can recover easier with sap if needed, while the meditate trainers might be more reliant on potions.)
I would be okay with an actual shake-up like a new venue that supports tank builds or stones that make other builds better/whatever the revamp will do, however having to change stats for what amounts to a few points feels more like a punishment.
In addition to this I wouldn't be surprised if it caused more complaints about bosses or dodging as now there's even less chance to recover without spamming potions.
(Also the kelpies should not be given more speed unless the enemy health is reduced as currently they're the only decent way to recover breath.)
Support. The Mire is even more frustrating now, I gave it a try and it made me want to bang my head against the wall.
Also, I'd like to suggest that in future, if staff is planning on nerfing the remaining leveling venues like this (Crystal Pools, Ghostlight, Kelp Beds), they could at least do us the courtesy of letting us know in advance and giving everyone a free tincture via Galore. I get it that they wanted to change the artwork and it's nice to make Mire look a little Plague-ier just before Riot of Rot, but. Did it have to involve nerfing the Mire build?
Also, I'd like to suggest that in future, if staff is planning on nerfing the remaining leveling venues like this (Crystal Pools, Ghostlight, Kelp Beds), they could at least do us the courtesy of letting us know in advance and giving everyone a free tincture via Galore. I get it that they wanted to change the artwork and it's nice to make Mire look a little Plague-ier just before Riot of Rot, but. Did it have to involve nerfing the Mire build?
Support. The Mire is even more frustrating now, I gave it a try and it made me want to bang my head against the wall.
Also, I'd like to suggest that in future, if staff is planning on nerfing the remaining leveling venues like this (Crystal Pools, Ghostlight, Kelp Beds), they could at least do us the courtesy of letting us know in advance and giving everyone a free tincture via Galore. I get it that they wanted to change the artwork and it's nice to make Mire look a little Plague-ier just before Riot of Rot, but. Did it have to involve nerfing the Mire build?
Also, I'd like to suggest that in future, if staff is planning on nerfing the remaining leveling venues like this (Crystal Pools, Ghostlight, Kelp Beds), they could at least do us the courtesy of letting us know in advance and giving everyone a free tincture via Galore. I get it that they wanted to change the artwork and it's nice to make Mire look a little Plague-ier just before Riot of Rot, but. Did it have to involve nerfing the Mire build?
pings off | plz no random friend requests/PMs/profile comments
Support. Not because it broke the meta, per se, but because it's a clear outlier that seems to accomplish nothing but break the meta.
This can't be a great shakeup of the stagnation and also no big deal at the same time, and it seems so far like the latter. I ran a 117 flyer, I'll have to tincture her, oh well. It'll shake things up for like a week or two while people do some math and then we'll all go right back to the same old Mire Flyer pattern with maybe an extra restart here and there. It's not a breath of fresh air, it's just a minor additional annoyance, and honestly coli has enough of those as it is.
If we had a coli where enemies were actually specialized and tactics mattered for more than 'remember one extra scratch on one pair of enemies' it would be a different story, but as it is the new enemies (the armadillos in particular, the fish less so) are just weird statistical outliers for their venue. And as others have mentioned, zone revamps throwing zone balance off is a regular occurrence, it's just getting more attention this time because of the Mire's particular meta niche.
Personally I'd be equally happy with the armadillos being nerfed back in line with the rest of the zone or buffed into actual minibosses a la the Yeti, which would add at least a little more actual variety than one more scratch. But support for doing something about them in any case.
This can't be a great shakeup of the stagnation and also no big deal at the same time, and it seems so far like the latter. I ran a 117 flyer, I'll have to tincture her, oh well. It'll shake things up for like a week or two while people do some math and then we'll all go right back to the same old Mire Flyer pattern with maybe an extra restart here and there. It's not a breath of fresh air, it's just a minor additional annoyance, and honestly coli has enough of those as it is.
If we had a coli where enemies were actually specialized and tactics mattered for more than 'remember one extra scratch on one pair of enemies' it would be a different story, but as it is the new enemies (the armadillos in particular, the fish less so) are just weird statistical outliers for their venue. And as others have mentioned, zone revamps throwing zone balance off is a regular occurrence, it's just getting more attention this time because of the Mire's particular meta niche.
Personally I'd be equally happy with the armadillos being nerfed back in line with the rest of the zone or buffed into actual minibosses a la the Yeti, which would add at least a little more actual variety than one more scratch. But support for doing something about them in any case.
Support. Not because it broke the meta, per se, but because it's a clear outlier that seems to accomplish nothing but break the meta.
This can't be a great shakeup of the stagnation and also no big deal at the same time, and it seems so far like the latter. I ran a 117 flyer, I'll have to tincture her, oh well. It'll shake things up for like a week or two while people do some math and then we'll all go right back to the same old Mire Flyer pattern with maybe an extra restart here and there. It's not a breath of fresh air, it's just a minor additional annoyance, and honestly coli has enough of those as it is.
If we had a coli where enemies were actually specialized and tactics mattered for more than 'remember one extra scratch on one pair of enemies' it would be a different story, but as it is the new enemies (the armadillos in particular, the fish less so) are just weird statistical outliers for their venue. And as others have mentioned, zone revamps throwing zone balance off is a regular occurrence, it's just getting more attention this time because of the Mire's particular meta niche.
Personally I'd be equally happy with the armadillos being nerfed back in line with the rest of the zone or buffed into actual minibosses a la the Yeti, which would add at least a little more actual variety than one more scratch. But support for doing something about them in any case.
This can't be a great shakeup of the stagnation and also no big deal at the same time, and it seems so far like the latter. I ran a 117 flyer, I'll have to tincture her, oh well. It'll shake things up for like a week or two while people do some math and then we'll all go right back to the same old Mire Flyer pattern with maybe an extra restart here and there. It's not a breath of fresh air, it's just a minor additional annoyance, and honestly coli has enough of those as it is.
If we had a coli where enemies were actually specialized and tactics mattered for more than 'remember one extra scratch on one pair of enemies' it would be a different story, but as it is the new enemies (the armadillos in particular, the fish less so) are just weird statistical outliers for their venue. And as others have mentioned, zone revamps throwing zone balance off is a regular occurrence, it's just getting more attention this time because of the Mire's particular meta niche.
Personally I'd be equally happy with the armadillos being nerfed back in line with the rest of the zone or buffed into actual minibosses a la the Yeti, which would add at least a little more actual variety than one more scratch. But support for doing something about them in any case.
I will say this IS definitely a consistent behavior and it is NOT fun, it is incredibly frustrating. When the Forgotten Cave updated, I noticed it was more difficult to grind in than it had been before the update because all the new enemies seemed to have buffed HP and it's just.... this isn't fun. The coli already isn't fun so making it harder in this specific way isn't helping things???
I don't grind in the Mire ever, but I can imagine with it being such a high level venue how much more frustrating this is. So I do think it should either be adjusted or it'd be nice to acknowledge this for future updates in the coli, so we don't run into this again. Especially if more of the high level venues get updates. Everyone's going to Ghostlight Ruins, gonna wreck everything if that gets updated the same way all these past venues have.
I don't grind in the Mire ever, but I can imagine with it being such a high level venue how much more frustrating this is. So I do think it should either be adjusted or it'd be nice to acknowledge this for future updates in the coli, so we don't run into this again. Especially if more of the high level venues get updates. Everyone's going to Ghostlight Ruins, gonna wreck everything if that gets updated the same way all these past venues have.
I will say this IS definitely a consistent behavior and it is NOT fun, it is incredibly frustrating. When the Forgotten Cave updated, I noticed it was more difficult to grind in than it had been before the update because all the new enemies seemed to have buffed HP and it's just.... this isn't fun. The coli already isn't fun so making it harder in this specific way isn't helping things???
I don't grind in the Mire ever, but I can imagine with it being such a high level venue how much more frustrating this is. So I do think it should either be adjusted or it'd be nice to acknowledge this for future updates in the coli, so we don't run into this again. Especially if more of the high level venues get updates. Everyone's going to Ghostlight Ruins, gonna wreck everything if that gets updated the same way all these past venues have.
I don't grind in the Mire ever, but I can imagine with it being such a high level venue how much more frustrating this is. So I do think it should either be adjusted or it'd be nice to acknowledge this for future updates in the coli, so we don't run into this again. Especially if more of the high level venues get updates. Everyone's going to Ghostlight Ruins, gonna wreck everything if that gets updated the same way all these past venues have.
|
-Recall/Lucius/Michael
-He/They, +8 FR Time -Lore and Fandragon enthusiast, love to talk! -Wishlist! / Skin Idea Generator |
|
Support. The 123 build may work, and I have tried it out all last night- but exalting for profit with the 2-fodder build has always been a testament of patience. By increasing the risk of the trainer dragon fainting (aka taking the points from Vitality/Quick into Strength) you increase the risk of people becoming frustrated and disappointed after having to restart again and again.
The coliseum is a grind, exalting for profit is a grind, but it is the best way for a large portion of the populace to make treasure and remove dragons from population. Making something already tedious into something more difficult and frustrating is not a good game mechanic. This isn't a big change on the Admin's side- nerf the hit points of a few monsters so they are more in line with the rest, but in turn it returns the Mire back to normal without everyone having to tincture their dragons and curse over having to restart every other battle when training.
The coliseum is a grind, exalting for profit is a grind, but it is the best way for a large portion of the populace to make treasure and remove dragons from population. Making something already tedious into something more difficult and frustrating is not a good game mechanic. This isn't a big change on the Admin's side- nerf the hit points of a few monsters so they are more in line with the rest, but in turn it returns the Mire back to normal without everyone having to tincture their dragons and curse over having to restart every other battle when training.
Support. The 123 build may work, and I have tried it out all last night- but exalting for profit with the 2-fodder build has always been a testament of patience. By increasing the risk of the trainer dragon fainting (aka taking the points from Vitality/Quick into Strength) you increase the risk of people becoming frustrated and disappointed after having to restart again and again.
The coliseum is a grind, exalting for profit is a grind, but it is the best way for a large portion of the populace to make treasure and remove dragons from population. Making something already tedious into something more difficult and frustrating is not a good game mechanic. This isn't a big change on the Admin's side- nerf the hit points of a few monsters so they are more in line with the rest, but in turn it returns the Mire back to normal without everyone having to tincture their dragons and curse over having to restart every other battle when training.
The coliseum is a grind, exalting for profit is a grind, but it is the best way for a large portion of the populace to make treasure and remove dragons from population. Making something already tedious into something more difficult and frustrating is not a good game mechanic. This isn't a big change on the Admin's side- nerf the hit points of a few monsters so they are more in line with the rest, but in turn it returns the Mire back to normal without everyone having to tincture their dragons and curse over having to restart every other battle when training.
No support.
Devs aren't obligated to uphold player-created meta with game changes just as they aren't obligated to uphold player-created markets.
There's plenty of ways to deal with the new mobs and game environment. Players just need to start making strategic choices with their teams instead of trying to make builds that min-max and/or try to do it all. Or at least understand the risks inherent with doing that.
2 dragon teams are still 100% viable in the new Mire. You can still level a single fodder while endlessly grinding for items to sell.
And if you wish to take a chance and level 2 fodder dragons, there are single dragon team builds that are still viable as well. Are they a tad slower? Maybe. Are they riskier? Yes, but that's inherent with any single dragon team glass cannon build. By utilizing only a single dragon, that risk needs should be understood. You can try to minimize that risk but it's still there.
I think players also forget that the Coli is a huge money printer. There is no limit to how long you can spend in there nor how many items you are allowed to grind from it. Changing up the meta comes part and parcel with balancing how much treasure gets poured into the game as well. Making it a tad more difficult to grind endless items or making it more risky to level 2 dragons at a time instead of 1 is an effective way of controlling that particular treasure faucet as well.
Devs aren't obligated to uphold player-created meta with game changes just as they aren't obligated to uphold player-created markets.
There's plenty of ways to deal with the new mobs and game environment. Players just need to start making strategic choices with their teams instead of trying to make builds that min-max and/or try to do it all. Or at least understand the risks inherent with doing that.
2 dragon teams are still 100% viable in the new Mire. You can still level a single fodder while endlessly grinding for items to sell.
And if you wish to take a chance and level 2 fodder dragons, there are single dragon team builds that are still viable as well. Are they a tad slower? Maybe. Are they riskier? Yes, but that's inherent with any single dragon team glass cannon build. By utilizing only a single dragon, that risk needs should be understood. You can try to minimize that risk but it's still there.
I think players also forget that the Coli is a huge money printer. There is no limit to how long you can spend in there nor how many items you are allowed to grind from it. Changing up the meta comes part and parcel with balancing how much treasure gets poured into the game as well. Making it a tad more difficult to grind endless items or making it more risky to level 2 dragons at a time instead of 1 is an effective way of controlling that particular treasure faucet as well.
No support.
Devs aren't obligated to uphold player-created meta with game changes just as they aren't obligated to uphold player-created markets.
There's plenty of ways to deal with the new mobs and game environment. Players just need to start making strategic choices with their teams instead of trying to make builds that min-max and/or try to do it all. Or at least understand the risks inherent with doing that.
2 dragon teams are still 100% viable in the new Mire. You can still level a single fodder while endlessly grinding for items to sell.
And if you wish to take a chance and level 2 fodder dragons, there are single dragon team builds that are still viable as well. Are they a tad slower? Maybe. Are they riskier? Yes, but that's inherent with any single dragon team glass cannon build. By utilizing only a single dragon, that risk needs should be understood. You can try to minimize that risk but it's still there.
I think players also forget that the Coli is a huge money printer. There is no limit to how long you can spend in there nor how many items you are allowed to grind from it. Changing up the meta comes part and parcel with balancing how much treasure gets poured into the game as well. Making it a tad more difficult to grind endless items or making it more risky to level 2 dragons at a time instead of 1 is an effective way of controlling that particular treasure faucet as well.
Devs aren't obligated to uphold player-created meta with game changes just as they aren't obligated to uphold player-created markets.
There's plenty of ways to deal with the new mobs and game environment. Players just need to start making strategic choices with their teams instead of trying to make builds that min-max and/or try to do it all. Or at least understand the risks inherent with doing that.
2 dragon teams are still 100% viable in the new Mire. You can still level a single fodder while endlessly grinding for items to sell.
And if you wish to take a chance and level 2 fodder dragons, there are single dragon team builds that are still viable as well. Are they a tad slower? Maybe. Are they riskier? Yes, but that's inherent with any single dragon team glass cannon build. By utilizing only a single dragon, that risk needs should be understood. You can try to minimize that risk but it's still there.
I think players also forget that the Coli is a huge money printer. There is no limit to how long you can spend in there nor how many items you are allowed to grind from it. Changing up the meta comes part and parcel with balancing how much treasure gets poured into the game as well. Making it a tad more difficult to grind endless items or making it more risky to level 2 dragons at a time instead of 1 is an effective way of controlling that particular treasure faucet as well.
[quote name="Twizz" date="2021-10-23 21:02:19" ]
I think players also forget that the Coli is a huge money printer. There is no limit to how long you can spend in there nor how many items you are allowed to grind from it. Changing up the meta comes part and parcel with balancing how much treasure gets poured into the game as well. Making it a tad more difficult to grind endless items or making it more risky to level 2 dragons at a time instead of 1 is an effective way of controlling that particular treasure faucet as well.
[/quote]
No support. Echoing what Twizz said here, I think it might've been staff's intention for the Mire to be more difficult because of how profitable it was especially in comparison to other venues.
Twizz wrote on 2021-10-23 21:02:19:
I think players also forget that the Coli is a huge money printer. There is no limit to how long you can spend in there nor how many items you are allowed to grind from it. Changing up the meta comes part and parcel with balancing how much treasure gets poured into the game as well. Making it a tad more difficult to grind endless items or making it more risky to level 2 dragons at a time instead of 1 is an effective way of controlling that particular treasure faucet as well.
No support. Echoing what Twizz said here, I think it might've been staff's intention for the Mire to be more difficult because of how profitable it was especially in comparison to other venues.
!! signature under construction !!
No support, I don't think any change is necessary. Staff doesn't have to uphold specific builds in mind when updating the coli. Even if you have a 119 STR Mire Flyer, I find that Haste + Scratch + Elim works just fine and is barely slower.
No support, I don't think any change is necessary. Staff doesn't have to uphold specific builds in mind when updating the coli. Even if you have a 119 STR Mire Flyer, I find that Haste + Scratch + Elim works just fine and is barely slower.
