Serafin wrote on 2021-04-07 07:11:56:
I really disagree with the notion of changing the eye type system at all. The only exception I could maybe (MAYBE) support would be a more feasible way to get primals or other rare eye types on progens.
I think the element of luck does add something to the game. Have I been frustrated when hatching rare eye types on fodder or when I wasn't expecting them? Absolutely. But I've also been frustrated by hatching weird color combos from eggs and one egg nests and the realization that I'll probably never own a G1 of one of my favorite breeds (Imps.) It happens, it's part of the game.
I think the element of luck does add something to the game. Have I been frustrated when hatching rare eye types on fodder or when I wasn't expecting them? Absolutely. But I've also been frustrated by hatching weird color combos from eggs and one egg nests and the realization that I'll probably never own a G1 of one of my favorite breeds (Imps.) It happens, it's part of the game.
Yet, at the same time, the people who dislike RNG, or just liked buying those random XYZs that most people considered fodder, and making them 'pretty' and/or just liked collecting certain dragons (special ID, date, oldies, or whatever they wanted to collect) and liked tossing money at them to make them even prettier, were able to do that. They could obtain every gene scroll they wanted. They could obtain every breed cahnge scroll except one*. Everything about the dragon except element and sex were changable about the dragon. Now, even the pose is changeable, and with the eye variants, while you can't straight up change the eye to a different color, there are more variations that can help even unmatchy eyes match.
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Saying that you're disappointed is one thing. Of course you can be disappointed, it makes perfect sense to be miffed, but saying that not having all your dragons just the way you want them is hurting you? Insinuating that FR is ruined or falling from grace as your favorite game because of eye randomization? Frankly, it makes me dislike this suggestion even more. Taking a hiatus over the changes to the eye system makes it sound like there wasn't a whole lot keeping you here anyway.
I play other games. FR is one of the few that I am really active on.
Sylestia: I am active, but I do not breed. Period. The system there is even more unforgiving than the system here. AS I have said in the past, I have heard that people there, to get what they want, will literally mass breed hundreds of sylesties to get one or two that have the right traits they want.
There are various items that can be applied to pets, but they have so many differing rules. Some pets you can apply another trait to, though unless you pay diamonds (real world currency that can only be obtained through buying it from the site or other players, I think there may be a couple of contests that give out currency, but not often), you can't choose what trait the pet gets. Sometimes you can apply specific traits, but only if they have a trait already in that slot, or don't have a trait in that slot, and again, it is only certain pets, and if a pet has offspring that removes it from being eligible for certain items.
Basically the only thing you can really do with an existing pet, that doesn't matter what status that pet has (has offspring, is 'exclusive/starter/tamed/offspring' etc..) is dye them. So, I have made that my 'fun thing' I take pets with a high number of visible traits and I find colors those traits look good in.
You know what the status of their pet market is? Most of those pets i Like dyeing? CAn be bought for about 1000 gold, their treasure equivalent. Why? because they are ugly, bred by the hundreds, and even though the initial effort of getting to six visible (each pet can have six traits) can take literal months and lots of money, they are worthless. The only pets that tend to have worth are 'themed' pets and offspring of themed pets, and max stats. Themed pets are pets with a special tag and are always generated in a certain color pattern (usually only a few degrees off a certain hex color). Max stats are pets that have taken months and lots of real life currency to get to literal the max stat allowed at hatching.
If it sounds confusing? Yeah, it is. Which is why I don't breed there, and why I definitely do NOT like the move towards that model that FR is going towards. I loved breeding dragons on FR because I knew what I could obtain through that breeding, and if I got a 'nearly perfect' dragon, I could always go and make it 'perfect'. That is no longer possible.
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For me, it's about the accessibility. There are so few things on FR (especially dragon-wise) that can't be achieved with gems and patience. The rare eyes are one of the only elements of dragon breeding that you can't throw gems at to fix. The element of surprise is fun and has made me work with and consider dragons I wouldn't have otherwise. It adds value to newer dragons as a whole and while I agree, it has been disappointing to realize that my older dragons will most likely never have the precise eyes I want, I've moved on to breeding new dragons and taking the occasional rare eye type as a pleasant surprise.
It also isn't all that accessible due to sheer RNG. RNG is inherantly unfair. Someone can get lucky three times in a row, while another person might never get lucky their entire time on FR. There have been people who have gotten their scavenging up to level 40 and never gotten an egg from it. Others have gotten dozens or more eggs from scavenging.
I also don't feel it adds value to newer dragons. Just by looking on the AH, the only value I see is on gen1 primals, with most other dragons going back down to fodder levels quickly. They might not be there yet, but they will. So, then the only value in them will simply be as fodder dragons, same as before the eye update.
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And many of the replies to this topic are correct: the eye system is the "odd one out" of the various dragon customization features. And that's fine. You can manipulate a dragon's colors, genes, and breed and if that still doesn't do it for you, you can create endless combinations of apparel and scenes and attached familiars. You can breed for almost precisely what you want, down to a t if you know what you're doing. You can scatter a dragon over and over until you get colors you like. The eyes are the outlier. And I don't think that's a bad thing. It means that there's one (small!) thing left up to chance, one thing that no amount of money can change, and I like that. It makes primals, goat, faceted, etc a special and rare thing that's equally available to every single player who breeds dragons.
And many of the replies to this topic are correct: the eye system is the "odd one out" of the various dragon customization features. And that's fine. You can manipulate a dragon's colors, genes, and breed and if that still doesn't do it for you, you can create endless combinations of apparel and scenes and attached familiars. You can breed for almost precisely what you want, down to a t if you know what you're doing. You can scatter a dragon over and over until you get colors you like. The eyes are the outlier. And I don't think that's a bad thing. It means that there's one (small!) thing left up to chance, one thing that no amount of money can change, and I like that. It makes primals, goat, faceted, etc a special and rare thing that's equally available to every single player who breeds dragons.
Again, this is subjective, because it is an opinion. You think it is fine that you can't breed for eyes, I don't. I liked that FR was basically a breeding game where you could 'fix' dragons that didn't get the breed/genes/whatever you wanted them to. You could control everything about the offspring except sex, and that was a simple 50/50 coin flip. Even that frustrated a lot of people to the point they wanted sex change scrolls, and when that was considered not a good idea, wanted pose change scrolls so they didn't have to keep breeding the same pairs over and over and over again. We now have pose change scrolls.
To me, going back to the 'accessible' comment, eyes are much less accessible than genes and breeds. You mention that they are equally available to everyone that breeds, which is true, but genes and breeds are available (with that one exception) to everyone. It doesn't matter whether you breed or not, you can 'participate' in new gene and breed releases. You can run and scry your favorite dragons and then go and work towards getting the new breed/gene and putting it on your favorites. That makes eyes, to me, much less accessible to the player base than genes and breeds.
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If anything, we could use more additional eye vial types in the marketplace, like how we have spiral and glowing. Under no circumstances should we ever have rare vials or vials for anything that's already been released as a natural eye type (multigaze, primal, etc.) It kills the fun of random rare eye hatches and takes away what is currently a unique opportunity for complete fairness (anyone has the same chances of hatching a rare eye type regardless of wealth, account age, etc), not to mention that there would undoubtedly be outcry from people who poured time and money into scatter vials when they were first available. That sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I do agree that we need more unnatural eyes, but I disagree about natural eye vials.
It might 'kill the fun' for you, but for me, the idea that the natural eyes are breeding only 'killed the fun' of breeding for me.
I also want to reiterate that the eye types are not 'completely fair' because, no, not everyone has the same chances of hatching those special eyes regardless of wealth, account age etc..
Newer accounts are stuck with the initial nests, one?, so can only breed two dragons at a time and they are limited to the initial 15? slots (maybe 5) that they start with. They also only have two dragons to breed, and those are probably not going to produce very good looking kids. They are not going to have the money necessary to buy new dragons, buy more lair space, and buy new nests, and the chances of them getting a primal that will sell for a lot is very very low.
Conversely, older accounts tend to have more money, they often will have at least opened up about 100 slots for dragons, they have obtained more dragons and often have more of an idea of what might actually sell than new accounts.
So the eyes are, to me, not fair, because they do 'favor' older accounts/wealthier players etc.. because those are the players who have the resources to capitalize on the new eyes and maximize their chances of obtaining them.
As for the outcry over scattervials, I doubt it. Some would, but in older threads on this subject there were many people who said they bought hundreds of vials for their dragons and would WELCOME a way to obtain what they wanted.
Also, holding a site to not change things that people paid money for means there can be no changes at all. This was the argument used for retired items 'FR can't rerelease retired items because people have paid 60KG for light sprites and it wouldn't be fair to them for their investment to be devalued'. Yet we have roundsey who has given out light sprites before.
This is a game, and, as in real life, changes happen. What someone spent 100 gems on the day before might suddenly be worth only 10 gems the next day. Someone might buy that WC scroll from the AH and the next day WC scrolls get cycled back in. Someone finally buys that pricey constellation scroll, only for a new gene that looks better to come out and suddenly they need to buy another gem gene and replace that constellation gene.
I do understand where you are coming from, because you find RNG fun. I don't. Limited RNG is fun, but complete RNG and having no control over it? No thanks. I have long since tired of that. I have played too many games where it is so frustrating. You get a good drop, and something happens and you ahve to redo that particular area, and suddenly, that drop is gone, due to RNG.
However, these suggestions would not (well most of them) remove the RNG aspect of the eyes. You could still hatch eyes and get a special surprise. But others who dislike RNG or breeding could also work towards getting their special dragons the eyes that they like.
*Since some people tend to bring up Imps in relation to 'I can't get imperials gen1s so I dont' care if you can't put natural eye types on your special dragons' way, I agree that making IMperials a KS backed breed, to the point that people cannot obtain the breed change scrolls through normal gameplay, was a mistake.
However, if the IMperial scrolls were a mistake to make locked behind something like KS, then creating a new mechanic that has the same problem as Imperial scrolls (can't breed change special dragons to imperials) is ALSO a mistake, and making two mistakes doesn't mean that either one of them is suddenly not a mistake.
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