Suggestions

[quote name="@hungryhobbits" date="2020-06-21 09:18:55" ] breeding projects are long and expensi, another user made a similarly condescending comment about "well just breed the dragon better then :DDD" and like not everyone wants to have breeding projects - yes breeding is a big portion of the game but its literally not why i or a lot of other people play it and that could be taken into consideration for people who dont play it for a breeding aspec [/quote] I apologize if you read my comment as condescending :P was not intentional. I recently after many years did my first breeding project after years of not quite realizing I was capable of actually doing so

Also, here is one problem I see with making more desireable items more accessible to all players: It ruins rarity.

In many cases the only reason those items are desired is because they are rare, so by ruining the rarity of them, you are ruining the actual desirabilty for them as well.

So by making that G1 shadow primal with matchy colors more accessible to 'casual' players, you are ruining its rarity, and many of those players who wanted it will suddenly not want it, because everyone else will be able to have it.

This in turn ruins the long term viability of a game by removing long term goals. G1s are a niche market driven by how hard it is to obtain them. The harder it is to obtain a specific color combo gen1, the more valuable it is. By making it easier to obtain the harder to get combos, you will simply devalue them, and make people who had long term goals of obtaining those items less likely to want to stick around because there is nothing to keep their attention, because color goals are suddenly that much easier to obtain.

A site has to appeal to all types of playesr, and that includes both casual players, as well as those who want high priced items and/or long term goals. Making those higher priced items cheaper or long term goals easier because 'casual' players don't want to put the resources into obtaining them only makes players who look for long term goals on a site to leave and find other sites that will make them happy. It also drives away casual players who don't mind putting time into obtaining something because suddenly they can obtain everything they want easily and there is nothing left to keep their attention.

I have run into this on single player games. I don't mind cheating on single player games, because it makes it more fun to me. However, there have been times I have had to start the game over, because I made it too easy and therefore not fun.

It is all about balance between casual players being able to have fun and hard core players being able to have fun.

One thing I do like about FR is that casual players aren't left out. If a casual player wanted, they could work towards buying that gen1 shadow primal with matchy colors, OR they could invest time and/or resources into obtaining shadow eggs and hatching them in order to 'recreate' the dragon in question.

Will it take a long time and a lot of money and/or a lot of luck? yes, but it is still doable.

@DragonSage

Gem marketplace items do not change in price. New and casual players can access them just as easily as anyone else. If these items were only available by trade between players, that would be one thing. However, it is not. If anything, it will lessen the gap between the rich and the poor. I'd put the average player at having about 300kt-600kt on a good day. More casual players would have even less. Then you have that upper 1% who can apparently afford to drop 5kG on a g1 with rare eyes and good colors. I'd hardly call that sort of player the rule as opposed to the exception. Hence, gem gene price is hardly a pittance, unless you're speaking from the point of view of the top 1%.

As for older players, they will always have an advantage over newer players, especially when you have items retiring as often as they do in FR. If that's your concern, then no items should ever be retired. I don't personally agree with this, myself. Seniority should be rewarded to some degree.

Anyway, again, changing 1 color in 1 position up or down is not going to cause the game to crash. And even if it somewhat negatively affects that upper 1%, it benefits a lot more people than that. I don't think this is as "over-powered" as you think. If anything, it's the rare dragons which are.

@Naegiri

I've proposed that it would be about the same price as a gem gene, but ultimately, pricing would, of course, be up to the FR staff if these were implemented at all. Hence, significantly more expensive than a scatter scroll. In addition, no one item can change all three colors. Nor can it jump very far, only being able to change a color by one step. As for the FR Team's concerns with regard to breeding being trivialized, that was also taken into account. It does not trivialize the breeding aspect since breeding will get you close, and the item can take you that one extra step you needed, enabling you to move on to the next project.

@Jemadar

Your calculations aren't taking into account the fact that transactions between players fluctuates. There is no standard price set except by the players, and even then, it isn't really standardized. The price of a perfect g1 XXX will drop, most likely, with this item's implementation. This makes more dragons more available to more users. Rather than creating monopoly for certain players, it would expand the market to more users, though not by much. Remember, this item only barely affects a dragon's colors. It's not a win-guarantee lottery ticket.

This is especially true when thinking about the ceiling, or soft caps. As rarity decreases, so does value. The danger of monopoly goes down, not up, as more people gain access to certain looks. Popular opinion also changes with time. Maybe certain XYZ's will be the new XXX's, and people will focus less on what sells and more on what styles they like. Considering how small the affect of this item is, however, I really do not think that it will make much of a difference. Ideally, people will reap reward for hard work, and get out of something what they put in, with just as much of a chance to do so as anyone else. Such an ideal is unlikely in a place like FR, but I do not think that this item will bring us further from it. If anything, I think it will bring us closer to it.

And again, there will still be plenty of hurdles for players to overcome. This just takes out a tiny bit of tedium.


Edit: Keeping up with replies is hard. XD

Also, don't expect any more out of me for a while (and please ping someone if you want that person to see your message.) I have to go off-site now.

Except that gen1 market isn't controlled only by a few players. ANY player on site can obtain an egg and hatch an XXX gen1 primal. It just takes luck and the time required to obtain the egg. The gen1 market doesn't need to be expanded to all players, it already is available to all those players. Just as certain dragons don't need to be made available to more players, because those dragons have always been available. I got an earth egg the other day, and if I wanted to hatch it, I have the chance to get an earth primal brown range XXX or XXY (not likely to, but that chance is still there)

It also IS a win-guarantee lottery ticket, because you always know what the end result of applying this item is. It may take a few of these to obtain your desired end result, but once you have the dragon's colors, you always know how many it will take to obtain them by using this object.

Again, items that are 'luxury' or 'long term goals' don't need to be made available to all users, not on FR, as those items are already available to all users. With Roundsey, we even have the ability for new users to win a light sprite, one of the rarest items on site and thus one of the most valuable (or it was, haven't paid attention to it lately) just by paying 50 treasure.

A new user can obtain a gen1 shadow primal with matching colors, just by digging/scavenging in the shadow area a few times and hatching the egg they get.

(notice the 'can'. Yes, it requires luck to obtain these things, but they are still obtainable to anyone on site)

also, I would like to point out that I consider myself a casual player. I get on, do my 'dailies' of gathering and collecting pink's item and bonding with fiona's familiars. Every so often I bond with my own attached familiars. I *rarely* play fairgrounds games, I somewhat less rarely farm in the coliseum, I don't exalt, I sometimes, like twice a year it seems, sell fodder dragons I breed after I trained them, nor do I stalk the MP or AH to restock or flip items. Shoot, I rarely hoard sell the items I obtain through gathering.

Yet, I still consider the price of a gem gene to be pretty obtainable. Just bonding with familiars and getting that gilded chest can make a gem gene be pretty obtainable.

This isn't about the 1% vs the everyone else. This is about how much a person is willing to put into the game. I don't mean just money, but time, effort, and patience. Yes, money (as in real money) can be used as a 'shortcut' at times, but it still isn't a necessity to enjoy the game or obtain pretty much anything on site, as I stated in my earlier post.

@Cryoluxa
The separate items may be this idea's biggest flaw. By having different items, you're adding that level of security that egg items and scatterscrolls don't have. If you're a hardcore player, 1.5kg isn't difficult to get. Casual players needing to buy a few may as well do breeding projects because they'd have an easier time getting all the money required.

Let's take your nocturne for example. Two of the primary boosters would be 3,000g. Let's define a casual player as someone who does not do heavy exalting; maybe they don't even have a team of level 25s, maybe their highest is 15, which still gives them options for festivals.

Now, let's assume this player's main income source is fairgrounds, because they don't exalt, and selling dragons is a dynamic variable to account for here. To get the money you need, you'd need to max the fairgrounds lucky streak about 40 times. You can subtract some days for dragon sales, or increase it depending on the gem ratio. To make one boost, you need to max lucky streak 20 times.

And that's just one dragon! What about buying apparel, genes, festival skins? The casual player may take even longer to get all of the money they need for their projects. Meanwhile, the hardcore gen 1 community can be making profit tenfold doing the same thing.

At that point, you might as well just do breeding projects. You'll get the money back from selling or exalting the breeding rejects that you spent getting the parents, which is better for the casual player than investing in a large moneysink.

Back! Didn't take as long as I expected, though I don't know how much longer I'll be online.

Since this is sort of a re-introduction post, I want to thank everyone who has replied thus far for thinking this idea was worth putting the time you did into it. It shows that this idea is at least worth attention, even if you are against its implementation. :) Thank you for bringing attention to it! Also, I probably will stop replying after today. I have a life outside of FR, and enough discussion has gone on here, I think, to give the dev's something to think about. Ultimately, after all, whether this gets implemented or not is up to them.

Now, onto a couple replies.

@Jemadar

No need for multiple posts in a row; I see what you're saying in one just fine. Now, onto the meat of the topic.

True, everyone has random chance they can lean on, but why keep the target as small as a pinpoint? How many people give up on dreams just because of all the wasted time that would be required before success hits? I think that you are making the problem out to be smaller than it really is. Any problem can be waved off, but this forum is for improving the game by making suggestions, not maintaining status quo for the sake of maintaining status quo. I think that this would improve the game. You don't seem to think it needs fixing. This is clearly not an item for you. However, it is something that a lot of people would appreciate. And certainly, not everyone has time or real cash to dump into making that much dragoncash for potentially no payout. This isn't some game-breaking pick-your-color, but it is a little nudge that could help a lot of players.

@Naegiri

Breeding projects won't change a dragon you already have. If we're using my noc as an example, I'm not looking for a dragon with a different ID number. I thought about breeding him, but I'm not looking for a dragon with those colors. I'm looking for bringing out his best, which includes bumping his primary by two steps. I'm sure many others feel the same way.

As for Fairgrounds, I even forgot that they existed. In the past, I tried playing those games for hours, but I never reached cap, was bored to tears, and ultimately it was a waste of time (and probably health. My poor eyes...) I make my dragoncash differently now. It mostly involves Baldwin, but I don't often make dragoncash anyway.

That's kind of straying from the main point, though, so I'll redirect. I see your reasoning, but I still don't think this is as game-breaking as people think and have expressed why again and again here. What you view as "may as well breed" might not work for some folks, myself included. The FR Team, I'm sure, doesn't want people to think on this game with resentment about everything being too random. This is a small step toward stability which won't upset the random aspects, but give some breathing room for those of us who need it for whatever reason.

In my case: I don't want to have a different dragon; I'm partial to this one. I don't want to scatter because he's almost perfect. So, what does that leave me with? Bring the primary 2 steps up somehow.

I'm sure there are many others with a similar line of thinking to mine. I would have to purchase 2 of these items, and that's okay, because I'm getting what I'm paying for and not disrupting everything else too much.


Anyway, that's all from me. I think this has been discussed to death, hahah! Plenty for the FR Team to assess and work with. :) I may pop back in sometime, I may not. Thanks for the discussion and for hearing me out, everyone. :)

@Cryoluxa
Thank you for engaging with me on the topic! Like I said, I understand the want for it, I just can't get behind it mechanically, whether it's because of the potential breaking of the gen 1 market, or weakening a core element of the game. I don't want to repeat myself over and over, so I think I'll just end our discussion here.

Tentative under the condition that the following color patterns are impossible to obtain using the suggested items:

• XXX (Targeted color will not shift to match the other, skipping it on the color wheel.)
• XXY (Item will not shift the color in this direction, skipping it on the wheel if targeted)
• XYX (Item will not shift the color in this direction, skipping it on the wheel if targeted)
• XYY (Item will not shift the color in this direction, skipping it on the wheel if targeted)

That way it's a breeding project assistant item and it can be used to make g1 dragons less of an eyesore while still avoiding damage to the economy.