Make permababies useful | Suggestions

I personally don't see any problem with having perma's in the Colisieum. If we're going to argue about the name and the tooltip, then so be it.

Yes, the tool tip does desribe the perma-baby as a hatchling. However, logistically, there would is no other way to describe the function of the scroll.

However, it should be stated that we do not know the intentions of the admins. Perhaps they meant that eternally youthful dragons are indeed babies - but we do not know for sure. Claiming to know their meaning is disingenous, and saying "the tooltip describes them as hatchlings" does not prove a point. After all, the description of an eternally-youthful dragon according to the site itself is "this dragon is enjoying the benefits of eternal youth," not something along the lines of "this dragon is forever a child."

My point is, I get it if you do not like perma's in the coli. However, that is not a reason to deny other users the right to use them in the coli. This is a similar situation to exalting. There are no-exalt lairs, and that's fine, but that does not deny the ability for other players to exalt (and don't start telling me about site economy and space and how exalting is necessary, I know, I'm just saying if you don't like a mechanic, then don't use it).

Furthermore, with the argument that perma's should be de-buffed, why? If size requirements are going to be taken into consideration then why are faes allowed to fight? Yes there intrinsically magic-heavy but you can mess with their skill points to make them a tank. I mean, I have baby snapper that is a LOT bigger than my adult fae - 2.14kg adult fae versus a 935.1kg baby snapper, but are faes banned from coli?

If we're going to follow that line of thinking then old dragons should get de-buffs for being old. But that's not going to happen, because it ruins functionality. As it stands, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed in coli. The only thing I can think of is the necessity of of new "fainted" sprites but I think a scaled-down version of the one of the adult counterparts wouldn't be too bad. The resolution in coli is bad already so why not?

Du11ahan

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May 29, 2020 14:23:48

I personally don't see any problem with having perma's in the Colisieum. If we're going to argue about the name and the tooltip, then so be it.

Yes, the tool tip does desribe the perma-baby as a hatchling. However, logistically, there would is no other way to describe the function of the scroll.

However, it should be stated that we do not know the intentions of the admins. Perhaps they meant that eternally youthful dragons are indeed babies - but we do not know for sure. Claiming to know their meaning is disingenous, and saying "the tooltip describes them as hatchlings" does not prove a point. After all, the description of an eternally-youthful dragon according to the site itself is "this dragon is enjoying the benefits of eternal youth," not something along the lines of "this dragon is forever a child."

My point is, I get it if you do not like perma's in the coli. However, that is not a reason to deny other users the right to use them in the coli. This is a similar situation to exalting. There are no-exalt lairs, and that's fine, but that does not deny the ability for other players to exalt (and don't start telling me about site economy and space and how exalting is necessary, I know, I'm just saying if you don't like a mechanic, then don't use it).

Furthermore, with the argument that perma's should be de-buffed, why? If size requirements are going to be taken into consideration then why are faes allowed to fight? Yes there intrinsically magic-heavy but you can mess with their skill points to make them a tank. I mean, I have baby snapper that is a LOT bigger than my adult fae - 2.14kg adult fae versus a 935.1kg baby snapper, but are faes banned from coli?

If we're going to follow that line of thinking then old dragons should get de-buffs for being old. But that's not going to happen, because it ruins functionality. As it stands, I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed in coli. The only thing I can think of is the necessity of of new "fainted" sprites but I think a scaled-down version of the one of the adult counterparts wouldn't be too bad. The resolution in coli is bad already so why not?

Last edited on May 29, 2020 14:31:54 by Du11ahan

Support for apparel such as flowerfalls, wisps/embers, lanterns, etc. It would take minutes to shuffle around the pieces for each pose, and site approval would be through the roof. They could even make gem only floating apparel if they needed cash, I'd buy it (bees!!)

Also, huge support for skins and accents! Gaolers and other ancients prove this is easily able to happen. There's literally nothing holding them back at this point.

Coli support... I'm mixed. On the one hand I want level 25 babies, on the other...babies fighting? idk man.
No support for baby exclusive apparel. Just let em wear flowerfalls pls.

Foxe

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May 30, 2020 13:00:07

Support for apparel such as flowerfalls, wisps/embers, lanterns, etc. It would take minutes to shuffle around the pieces for each pose, and site approval would be through the roof. They could even make gem only floating apparel if they needed cash, I'd buy it (bees!!)

Also, huge support for skins and accents! Gaolers and other ancients prove this is easily able to happen. There's literally nothing holding them back at this point.

Coli support... I'm mixed. On the one hand I want level 25 babies, on the other...babies fighting? idk man.
No support for baby exclusive apparel. Just let em wear flowerfalls pls.

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One of the things that I tend to keep in mind on this topic is that while these may be 'hatchlings' these are also *dragons*. There is nothing that I have seen that says that in dragon world 'hatchlings = defenseless' so, even if they are physically a hatchling's body, that body may be just as capable of defending itself as an adult, and the difference would be whether the *mind* inside the body was adult or hatchling. IE, a hatchling's mind wouldn't necessarily have the knowledge necessary to adquately defend itself, but an adult mind would be able to use the full resources available to it.

But again, since we are talking about perma babies and not actual hatchlings, it honestly is a moot point, because the reasoning still stands that if you don't want to see hatchlings in the coliseum, then simply do not take them in the coliseum. You can't see that other players are training their permababies unless you stalk said permababies to see their level changing while they are permababies, so what another player does with their dragons isn't really any of your business nor does it affect you.

If in your lore they are actual hatchlings with the mind of hatchlings, then that is great, and you can absolutely do that, and just don't take them into the coliseum (which I still want ways to exclude specific dragons from showing up in the coliseum and breeding lists), but, to me, that doesn't mean that that lore, which as far as I can tell, doesn't have firm basis in canon (we only have the tooltip which says hatchling, but it could mean anything, true hatchling, hatchling form etc... and is also simply a way of describing what the scroll actually does, especially since the name of the scroll isn't perma baby or perma hatchling but eternal youth.)

Jemadar

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May 30, 2020 13:39:57

One of the things that I tend to keep in mind on this topic is that while these may be 'hatchlings' these are also *dragons*. There is nothing that I have seen that says that in dragon world 'hatchlings = defenseless' so, even if they are physically a hatchling's body, that body may be just as capable of defending itself as an adult, and the difference would be whether the *mind* inside the body was adult or hatchling. IE, a hatchling's mind wouldn't necessarily have the knowledge necessary to adquately defend itself, but an adult mind would be able to use the full resources available to it.

But again, since we are talking about perma babies and not actual hatchlings, it honestly is a moot point, because the reasoning still stands that if you don't want to see hatchlings in the coliseum, then simply do not take them in the coliseum. You can't see that other players are training their permababies unless you stalk said permababies to see their level changing while they are permababies, so what another player does with their dragons isn't really any of your business nor does it affect you.

If in your lore they are actual hatchlings with the mind of hatchlings, then that is great, and you can absolutely do that, and just don't take them into the coliseum (which I still want ways to exclude specific dragons from showing up in the coliseum and breeding lists), but, to me, that doesn't mean that that lore, which as far as I can tell, doesn't have firm basis in canon (we only have the tooltip which says hatchling, but it could mean anything, true hatchling, hatchling form etc... and is also simply a way of describing what the scroll actually does, especially since the name of the scroll isn't perma baby or perma hatchling but eternal youth.)

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Let them Fight
Let them Serve the Deities
Let them Exist in peace!
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[quote name="Du11ahan" date="2020-05-29 14:23:48" ] However, it should be stated that we do not know the intentions of the admins. [/quote] More than that, we don't know if that intention has changed over the years. For a history lesson (not directed at anyone except anyone who might not know) what we got in the beginning was a gem-exclusive item where you could do literally nothing with the dragon. Not sell it through the AH. Not exalt it. Not use it as an avatar. We can sell them now (March 19, 2017, I believe, though I'm not 100% sure because it's not in the text of the announcement) we can exalt them (December 13, 2015) we can use them as avatars (July 18, 2018). Aside from the avatar, which was an all-hatchlings change, there have already been changes specifically for EY dragons. Pure lore arguments for [i]or[/i] against anything make me a bit uncomfortable, because as things stand: -We can have level 25 EY dragons. -We can have EY dragons with offspring. But: -We cannot fight with EY dragons in the Coli. -We cannot breed EY dragons. Going purely by lore either way, those facts should not coexist. If EY dragons are always adults, they should be able to fight and breed; if EY dragons are always hatchlings, they shouldn't be able to have stats or offspring. I don't think there's one singular lore interpretation we're supposed to adhere to, myself! I think ultimately they exist because hatchling poses are cute, and there was no reason why not to make it possible as a premium item. Lore can be entirely individual, and that's great. I love that we don't have additional restrictions on who can get scrolled. And finally, for personal opinions re: the initial suggestion… I'm actually fine with things the way they are, and I'm also fine with any restrictions that the devs want to lift. I mean, I have a level 25 EY dragon. (And my Mire Flyer is a Fae.) But I also leveled my EY dragon knowing full well she was never going to be able to fight in the Coli, and that was fine for me. I just wanted it there for lore reasons and because I've always thought level 25 EY dragons are cool. I'd stat her properly if I could, because she's not a baby in my lore, but if I never can, she's still special to me.

mothscale

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May 30, 2020 14:16:00

Du11ahan wrote on 2020-05-29 14:23:48:

However, it should be stated that we do not know the intentions of the admins.

More than that, we don't know if that intention has changed over the years.

For a history lesson (not directed at anyone except anyone who might not know) what we got in the beginning was a gem-exclusive item where you could do literally nothing with the dragon. Not sell it through the AH. Not exalt it. Not use it as an avatar.

We can sell them now (March 19, 2017, I believe, though I'm not 100% sure because it's not in the text of the announcement) we can exalt them (December 13, 2015) we can use them as avatars (July 18, 2018). Aside from the avatar, which was an all-hatchlings change, there have already been changes specifically for EY dragons.

Pure lore arguments for or against anything make me a bit uncomfortable, because as things stand:
-We can have level 25 EY dragons.
-We can have EY dragons with offspring.
But:
-We cannot fight with EY dragons in the Coli.
-We cannot breed EY dragons.

Going purely by lore either way, those facts should not coexist. If EY dragons are always adults, they should be able to fight and breed; if EY dragons are always hatchlings, they shouldn't be able to have stats or offspring. I don't think there's one singular lore interpretation we're supposed to adhere to, myself! I think ultimately they exist because hatchling poses are cute, and there was no reason why not to make it possible as a premium item. Lore can be entirely individual, and that's great. I love that we don't have additional restrictions on who can get scrolled.

And finally, for personal opinions re: the initial suggestion… I'm actually fine with things the way they are, and I'm also fine with any restrictions that the devs want to lift. I mean, I have a level 25 EY dragon. (And my Mire Flyer is a Fae.) But I also leveled my EY dragon knowing full well she was never going to be able to fight in the Coli, and that was fine for me. I just wanted it there for lore reasons and because I've always thought level 25 EY dragons are cool. I'd stat her properly if I could, because she's not a baby in my lore, but if I never can, she's still special to me.

Last edited on May 30, 2020 14:16:38 by mothscale

Support for coli, skins and accents! Apparel not so much.

NYC

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May 31, 2020 15:07:53

Support for coli, skins and accents! Apparel not so much.

Personally, I think they should work like the Ancient Breeds. No apparel yet (bc that would probably take too much new artwork), but definitely skins. I'd love to have accents and skins for my permababs!

orpington

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May 31, 2020 23:14:47

Personally, I think they should work like the Ancient Breeds. No apparel yet (bc that would probably take too much new artwork), but definitely skins. I'd love to have accents and skins for my permababs!

@Jemadar have you considered that if you dont like permababies you dont have to have them? and if you want them but dont want them taking up space/food then just put htem in your den? this kinda just sounds like you dont like permababies

if you want to give support to permababy skins/accents tho there are popular threads for that already but everything else isnt very good on this

hungryhobbits

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June 04, 2020 12:57:17

@Jemadar have you considered that if you dont like permababies you dont have to have them? and if you want them but dont want them taking up space/food then just put htem in your den? this kinda just sounds like you dont like permababies

if you want to give support to permababy skins/accents tho there are popular threads for that already but everything else isnt very good on this

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@HungryHobbits

Who says I dislike permababies? I never even implied that. I am just saying that having permababies be actual babies in your lore is just fine, but until/unless the developers mention something, we don't know whether they are actual babies in canon lore, or just hatchling shaped/sized dragons.

I don't have permababies because I have really only found one or two that I would want, and right now, there isn't anything I can do with them, so I prefer the freedom of having adults. That is why I support suggestions to give permababies more things to do, because having pretty dragons is one thing, but I like being able to dress/breed/fight my dragons on a whim. So I am not opposed to having permababies (and only EY dragons and not actual hatchlings) be treated as adult dragons.

At the end of the day, they are pixel dragons belonging to a game. It won't hurt anyone if they can fight or breed or wear skins. Those people who dislike that can simply not utilize them in that way, while others who do like it can utilize them that way.

Jemadar

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June 04, 2020 13:25:16

@HungryHobbits

Who says I dislike permababies? I never even implied that. I am just saying that having permababies be actual babies in your lore is just fine, but until/unless the developers mention something, we don't know whether they are actual babies in canon lore, or just hatchling shaped/sized dragons.

I don't have permababies because I have really only found one or two that I would want, and right now, there isn't anything I can do with them, so I prefer the freedom of having adults. That is why I support suggestions to give permababies more things to do, because having pretty dragons is one thing, but I like being able to dress/breed/fight my dragons on a whim. So I am not opposed to having permababies (and only EY dragons and not actual hatchlings) be treated as adult dragons.

At the end of the day, they are pixel dragons belonging to a game. It won't hurt anyone if they can fight or breed or wear skins. Those people who dislike that can simply not utilize them in that way, while others who do like it can utilize them that way.

#UnnamedIsValid
Let them Fight
Let them Serve the Deities
Let them Exist in peace!
Dragons needed --->

Breed Characteristic Apparel!

Cuckoo Breed and Mutations!

Change Unnamed in YOUR dragon's profile!