Suggestions

[quote name="@butcherbaby" date="2019-12-12 11:29:] But if people don’t get anything in return for exalting their dragons, they just...won’t. Period. So there would still have to be some kind of reward for doing so, and one that was equally or more desirable than the treasure incentive. [/quote] I’m not suggesting a lack of incentive. I’m suggesting a non-treasure incentive. More points to that players flight for Dom (since Dom pushing isn’t really profitable anyways. Dom is, but pushing costs loads). Breeding incentives. Extra tickets to Roundsey. Things that are beneficial to players but don’t generate treasure. Or maybe 0 treasure in exchange for a better chance at getting a gem or three. I’m not an economist, and I have no clue how well any one of those might work as a treasure sink without completely borking the economy. I agree with your point that for it to work, it would have to be desirable to a sizable number of players, though not all of them.

[quote name="Stormdance" date="2019-12-12 23:36:41" ] [quote name="@butcherbaby" date="2019-12-12 11:29:] But if people don’t get anything in return for exalting their dragons, they just...won’t. Period. So there would still have to be some kind of reward for doing so, and one that was equally or more desirable than the treasure incentive. [/quote] I’m not suggesting a lack of incentive. I’m suggesting a non-treasure incentive. More points to that players flight for Dom (since Dom pushing isn’t really profitable anyways. Dom is, but pushing costs loads). Breeding incentives. Extra tickets to Roundsey. Things that are beneficial to players but don’t generate treasure. Or maybe 0 treasure in exchange for a better chance at getting a gem or three. [/quote] I burned out on coli years ago and don't participate in Dom (neither do LOTS of users who still exalt dragons for cash) so giving away my dragons for free just to get 'dom points' would be a worthless incentive. Dom discount is useless to me if I am broke because I didn't get any money for the dragons I exalted. And what about when flights yeet all their dragons for free, and don't place in dom at all? they've gotten NOTHING in return- NO INCENTIVE. Same with Roundsey- as it is I only play when there is a prize I REALLY want, and even then I spend very little, maybe 5-15k on average. The chance of winning are so low, that it's not worth it to me to throw my money away on it, and I would even LESS want to throw away my dragons for again, nothing in return. I mostly breed for fodder and personal breeding projects, but even my nice non-fodder pairs I sell cheap so they don't sit around for weeks or months clogging up my lairspace. Breeding incentives may or may not come in handy at times, but it certainly wouldn't replace treasure as an incentive for me to want to exalt. No treasure in exchange for a better chance at getting a gem or three? Well, first, I doubt that it would fly with FR staff, but more importantly, there are plenty of people (like me) who would rather just spend 2 minutes donating five dollars for 500g than spend hours leveling exalts for a few gems each. And if you suggest that they would no longer need to be leveled, well, that's less people in the coli, less food & items generated, less people selling those things on the AH, resulting in higher demand, and then...INFLATION! The very thing people want to avoid. And if people aren't getting actual treasure to exalt, they are less likely to pay actual treasure for exalt fodder. The bottom will drop out of the market, fodder sellers will stop making money, less fodder gets exalted.... For a non-treasure alternative to work, it has to be something that 1. the majority of people will want 2. that is an actual thing they can use, trade, sell 3. that they get every time they exalt 4. that is of equal or greater value than that of treasure current incentives for each level Because otherwise, WHY would people want to get rid of their drgaons

[quote name="Nyllei" date="2019-12-08 15:42:18" ] @Yuubi Regardless of "true" treasure sink or not (it really isn't, but others have already covered that), none of that will ever affect the g:t ratio if the treasure is not fully removed from the site itself. Specifically treasure, not touching gems. @butcherbaby Nope! Wrong! This site has way too many treasure generators to counterbalance the amount of treasure sinks currently. A treasure sink needs to remove the treasure from the game's economy entirely, and some of what you mentioned (the AH sales, specifically) just don't do that. If you'd like an example of what an economy with too few treasure generators per sink actually looks like, go take a look at the earliest threads of Dragons for Sale. Fairgrounds was the only truly viable way to make treasure at that time (coli builds were mostly still being tested) and it shows. There's a big reason why 1g:250t is no longer the ratio, and it's all due to many more treasure generators being added. [/quote] I've been here since Oct '14, I remember what it was like. There wen't nearly as many players, and FAR fewer items available for gems than there are now...I'm pretty sure there were still only three gem genes available (iri, shim, and circuit), crystal, facet, and glimmer all were released around that time I joined. Nothing to buy with gems means low demand for gems, as does a small contingent of players. Now we have MANY more gem items, of all types, and many more people who can't donate wanting to buy them. That in itself would have created gem price inflation, even without additional treasure generators- and it did. I watched the prices rise myself, because I used to sell quite a lot of gems myself (can't afford to now.) Which reminds me of the fact that a LOT of old power users who bought & sold quite a lot of gems a few years ago have left the site or simply stopped donating when admins said no more active lair space would be added, and that means less gems in circulation as the demand for them rises, which again, raises the price. As for treasure generating, in Oct 14 we had the same generators then that we did now- fairgrounds (same daily max), chests, familiar bonding, and exalting. Culex and at least one other person had the early coli builds down pat, and other than leveling fodder to exalt, or the occasional small value chest, coli doesn't generate any treasure at all. AH sales may not be a sink, but the fees are, and for high ticket items they are pretty significant. And I forgot Joxar and his monthly 80k chest, that's a nice little treasure sink too. The NUMBER ONE thing they could do as a treasure sink is keep increasing lair space. It is a VERY high ticket sink, and if they gave us the opportunity to buy single as well as multiple slots, it would be an even bigger one, because people won't have to wait until they have saved up millions every time. I'd do it even if The price per space buying them singly would be than buying them all at once.

[quote name="butcherbaby" date="2019-12-13 04:23:54" ] As for treasure generating, in Oct 14 we had the same generators then that we did now- fairgrounds (same daily max), chests, familiar bonding, and exalting. Culex and at least one other person had the early coli builds down pat, and other than leveling fodder to exalt, or the occasional small value chest, coli doesn't generate any treasure at all. [/quote] I would like to point out that there are different things: Fairgrounds: We have different games. While the same max is in place, more games means more people have the opportunity to hit that max. Glimmer and Gloom is a huge one that allows people to hit max. It has a pretty simple pattern, once you learn it, that players can use for any hard board it can generate. I know that I can leave for weeks and come back and STILL remember the patter for glimmer and gloom. Adding more games will allow more players to reach cap. This isn't a bad thing, BTW, but it just means that there needs to be sinks in place to counter that. Coliseum: While the coliseum doesn't generate treasure directly, it does in hoard selling the junk you get. What this means is that the more venues that are easy to grind and the more players who start doing the coliseum will be adding more treasure into the game through that process. Not every player will hoard sell their gains, but enough will. As above, this isn't a bad thing, but again is something that needs to have a sink to counter it. In order to have an imbalance between generation and sinks, you don't have to have DIFFERENT mechanics, or even raised caps on mechanics, you just need to have more players able to utilize those mechanics or reach cap. That is why a bond all button would be so bad. Players can and do bond with all their familiars or all familiars on dragons now, but adding an easy way to bond with all familiars, even only on dragons, means that more people will click that button and get the rewards. Yet, mechanic wise, players are still bonding with 200 familiars per day. that is what G and G is somewhat, it is almost a 'bond all' button for the fairgrounds, because it has allowed more players to reach cap faster. I would also argue that lair space, while a good idea all around, isn't the best treasure sink they could add. It would take a lot of treasure out at the higher levels but that would be spread among a relative few players, however there are a lot of people who simply aren't interested in expanding their lairs, or don't feel it is worth it, especially with hibernal den. (again, we should and hopefully will get more lair space, but it is a situational treasure sink and not one that works for all players). (and yes buying slot by slot would make it a far better treasure sink) Joxar and the AH big ticket items are very situational. I haven't bought a Joxar chest since they first came out, because it isn't worth it. I have stopped buying all the skins from a festival because it isn't worth it. Many or most players won't ever see one of those big ticket items to sell, and the AH is best as a treasure sink on the multitude of small transactions that happen daily, not the big ticket items. But again, those are situational. I haven't sold anything on the AH since the mums, and I sold those for gems. That is why I said we need more treasure sinks and more variety in those sinks. Players who might not want to expand their lairs, because they want to keep small lairs, won't be interested in higher cap for lair space because they will never reach it. However, they might be interested in a different treasure sink and will willlingly sink their treasure into it. Same thing for all other treasure sinks. The above ones aren't ones I particularly use, I might every once in a while, but a different treasure sink, I might be willing to put a lot of treasure into (however, I am also not one who sits on millions of treasure either... sadly I have very little treasure)

If we're looking for more treasure sinks...individual eye vials in the MP. Or a new type of scattervial, also available in the marketplace. (Though eye vials can be used through other site mechanics too, but for the sake of this discussion, we'll just focus on the MP possibility.)

Many, if not most, players will want spiffy, natural eyes on at least some of their dragons. That's a lot of players, and even more dragons. Thus, individual eye vials (even for just unusual, uncommon, and rare) would be a purchase players would repeat. It's also a sink that wouldn't go away since eyes can't be inherited.

Eye vials in the MP would take A LOT of treasure out of the system.

[quote name="gemajgall" date="2019-12-13 08:13:36" ] If we're looking for more treasure sinks...individual eye vials in the MP. Or a new type of scattervial, also available in the marketplace. (Though eye vials can be used through other site mechanics too, but for the sake of this discussion, we'll just focus on the MP possibility.) Many, if not most, players will want spiffy, natural eyes on at least some of their dragons. That's a lot of players, and even more dragons. Thus, individual eye vials (even for just unusual, uncommon, and rare) would be a purchase players would repeat. It's also a sink that wouldn't go away since eyes can't be inherited. Eye vials in the MP would take A LOT of treasure out of the system. [/quote] I agree, and even if they aren't in the MP, Baldwin also has a treasure cost associated with it, and it would also potentially help get items out of the system as well. (plus give a boost to perhaps some very common ones so that even newer/casual players can cash in on them aswell)

[quote name="PersimmonBird" date="2019-12-12 13:22:12" ] [quote name="butcherbaby" date="2019-12-12 12:54:42" ] [quote name="Namarie" date="2019-12-12 11:49:13" ] Lairspace is a good treasure sink. . Add up to 5000 active lairspace and that be a treasure sink right there! I would also love the oppertunity to buy den slots (non active lairspace ) with treasure [/quote] THIS! At 1million+ Treasure per 5 slots, this is probably the best treasure sink the game could possibly have. [/quote] Yes! Also, they need to make lair slots buyable individually the way den slots are, same price for each 5 slot tier but you can buy them piecemeal. Still the same treasure sink but an easier threshold for players, which encourages more expansion from people who currently have trouble earning/saving up the full million plus price of later expansions. [/quote] Buying one slot at a time is possible in the den so I can't see why not add it to active lairspace as well. The more options to pay for lairspace both inactive and active is a good thing imo

@Jemadar, I don’t sit on treasure either! I never have enough no matter how much I do. Genes, apparel, food, more genes, Den/swipp/Baldwin materials...there is always something and my treasure slips right through my virtual fingers. I sell gems to get treasure and STILL am always treasure broke! [emoji=ridgeback laughing size=1]

@ButcherBaby

I feel that :D

I just can't motivate myself to play the fairground games, so often have to make money during festivals or do cross site trading to make money.

Sad thing is, I don't even spend my money except on festival skins, just don't seem to ever really make enough (I can never make up my mind what genes I want)

I would love to see paying for more Cauldrons and HD space with treasure. I make most of my money in brewing items and selling fodder. I buy gems from other players and sell most things for gems on the AH because I want to buy gem items. I do not spend like I used to though. I rarely if ever buy festival skins and accents and I do not want more active lair space atm. I do want a ton more HD space tho!