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TOPIC | even out flights/dominance
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if im being completely honest i'm still learning about dominance stuff here on fr, so pls be kind lol, but i've been trying to learn and it seems like theres a pretty serious divide in the number of players in each flight, which makes stuff really unbalanced. it prob sounds like i'm just complaining bc i'm in arcane and we're really big so our exalts count for less (which is kinda true lol) but also like,,,, idk i just want it to be fair,,, like arcane can't get anywhere up on the leaderboard at all bc our exalts = a heck of alot less. and i'm in no way asking for all exalts to just be completly equal, i totally get that that woulden't be fair at all to anyone! like we do have more players, but not all of them are active exalters,,, so if we were just equal we'd have a huge huge advantage, but since we're pushed down so much and have so few active exalters/domers in comparison to the total amount of players, we're basically at a disadvantage.

honestly, idk how exactly to fix this.... maybe by doing some sort of event or smthn to try and get ppl from arcane (and i think plague is the other really big one) to switch to less populated flights? idk how popular or fair that would be, it's not a great idea lol but the only other i had was to like, compare the # of dragons exalted to the population of a flight and calculate that way instead, but idk how difficult that would be to code.... idk anyone else got any idea/suggestions on the subject?

Edit: I read through the comments and I totally get why ppl think what I suggested is a bad idea. I wasn’t really proposing a solution as much as trying to point out a problem and see if anyone had any ideas how to fix it. I’m not gonna delete this thread bc that would be unfair to the ppl who put in the effort to explain stuff but I just wanted to add that
if im being completely honest i'm still learning about dominance stuff here on fr, so pls be kind lol, but i've been trying to learn and it seems like theres a pretty serious divide in the number of players in each flight, which makes stuff really unbalanced. it prob sounds like i'm just complaining bc i'm in arcane and we're really big so our exalts count for less (which is kinda true lol) but also like,,,, idk i just want it to be fair,,, like arcane can't get anywhere up on the leaderboard at all bc our exalts = a heck of alot less. and i'm in no way asking for all exalts to just be completly equal, i totally get that that woulden't be fair at all to anyone! like we do have more players, but not all of them are active exalters,,, so if we were just equal we'd have a huge huge advantage, but since we're pushed down so much and have so few active exalters/domers in comparison to the total amount of players, we're basically at a disadvantage.

honestly, idk how exactly to fix this.... maybe by doing some sort of event or smthn to try and get ppl from arcane (and i think plague is the other really big one) to switch to less populated flights? idk how popular or fair that would be, it's not a great idea lol but the only other i had was to like, compare the # of dragons exalted to the population of a flight and calculate that way instead, but idk how difficult that would be to code.... idk anyone else got any idea/suggestions on the subject?

Edit: I read through the comments and I totally get why ppl think what I suggested is a bad idea. I wasn’t really proposing a solution as much as trying to point out a problem and see if anyone had any ideas how to fix it. I’m not gonna delete this thread bc that would be unfair to the ppl who put in the effort to explain stuff but I just wanted to add that
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No support. As you said, there’s not really a way to fix this unless you got people to change flights, and I’m pretty sure people aren’t gonna be happy with the game trying to force them into a different flight.


We don’t get dom often because we aren’t a dom oriented flight. When we battle (like when we fought wind a while back) it was fierce. We can dom when we want to, we just usually don’t want to.
If you want consistent dom, you can move to light or earth.
If you want us to push more, take it up with the dom organizers in the dom forum.
No support. As you said, there’s not really a way to fix this unless you got people to change flights, and I’m pretty sure people aren’t gonna be happy with the game trying to force them into a different flight.


We don’t get dom often because we aren’t a dom oriented flight. When we battle (like when we fought wind a while back) it was fierce. We can dom when we want to, we just usually don’t want to.
If you want consistent dom, you can move to light or earth.
If you want us to push more, take it up with the dom organizers in the dom forum.
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If players are allowed to choose their flight it is absolutely impossible to ensure even numbers as certain elements are more popular than others

In addition whenever there is a competitive aspect to things you have players who are very competitive and players who are far less competitive and these players will tend to lean towards more competitive teams and less competitive teams respectively. ‘Dom Powerhouses’ will attract highly competitive players while flights with a more laid back approach to dominance will attract less competitive players which just makes the divides more pronounced. This is just human nature, you can’t force someone who isn’t interested in dom into participating

Dominance is as fair as it can be. Only active flights are taken in account when determining dominance. Dominance is determined by the ratio of dragon levels exalted to active clans (which is fairer than total number exalted).
If players are allowed to choose their flight it is absolutely impossible to ensure even numbers as certain elements are more popular than others

In addition whenever there is a competitive aspect to things you have players who are very competitive and players who are far less competitive and these players will tend to lean towards more competitive teams and less competitive teams respectively. ‘Dom Powerhouses’ will attract highly competitive players while flights with a more laid back approach to dominance will attract less competitive players which just makes the divides more pronounced. This is just human nature, you can’t force someone who isn’t interested in dom into participating

Dominance is as fair as it can be. Only active flights are taken in account when determining dominance. Dominance is determined by the ratio of dragon levels exalted to active clans (which is fairer than total number exalted).
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The thing is, from a developer's viewpoint, FR already HAS made dom as fair as they can without taking away player choice.

Flights are already weighted by such things as flight size, and number of active players, (and who knows what else).

The site cannot take into consideration (because from a coding standpoint, there is probably nothing they CAN do to fairly take it into consideration) the fact that players can switch flights, flights are getting out of flight help and everything else that goes into dom.

The simple truth is, you are always going to have this dynamic when you allow players to choose teams. Since every person on site HAS to choose a flight to join, and there is no flight where players who are totally uninterested in dominance or exalting can go, this is what you end up with. You get the players who are competitive finding out that Earth (currently) is the dom powerhouse, so they switch or join earth. You get players who are completely uninterested in dom and don't want to feel pressured into it joining a flight that is known for NOT being dom oriented.

Earth will probably lose its place and another flight will take the top, because you also have players who want the rewards of dominance, but don't want to exalt, moving to earth.

Calculations also cannot take into consideration the idea that a small flight like Earth can still gain the help of many of the active exalters in a large flight like Shadow (think shadow is one of the largest) by those players training and sending the dragons to earth to be exalted.

The only way to make dominance truly fair would be to either just give dominance to flights on a rotating schedule, completely removing the competitive aspects of it, or assigning every player a random 'team' and basically forcing players to participate in dominance.


This comes up often, and many of the potential 'solutions' would be potentially worse than it is now.

Having it where players can 'sign up' for dominance could lead to users bullying others when they sign up and don't do what the players feel they should, or lead to having a core handful of each flight signing up and all other players funneling their dragons to those few players.

Making it where it depends on exalting activity would shift the bullying to casual exalters who may only exalt 2 or so dragons a week. They would be counted, thus making it harder for a team to obtain dominance. It would also mean that player would be discouraged from exalting dragons so that only a handful of users show up as 'exalters'.

On the other hand, creating a minimum number of dragons needing to be exalted before being counted means that casual exalters who can't always help by heavy exalting are left out, and either have to funnel their dragons to other users, or just not count for dominance.

Basically, I can't really see any way FR could have done the competition that would have made it any fairer.

To be honest, any sort of competition is inherently 'unfair' because it is a competition. Those players who excel at that type of competing or who are competitive and willing to work will always achieve the high places, while players who don't have the above won't achieve the same thing. In this case, replace player by flights, and it is the same thing. Flights who have worked out how to excel at exalting dragons and who have organized their flight into working together will always have the advantage over other flights who haven't.

Again, smaller flights will also have an advantage in that it is easier to organize a small group of people into doing something than it is getting a larger group to work together, but the only way to 'fix' that is to simply assign flights to every player. Letting players choose their own flights or letting them switch flights means that you get unbalanced flight sizes because you have players choosing specific flights for all sorts of reasons.
The thing is, from a developer's viewpoint, FR already HAS made dom as fair as they can without taking away player choice.

Flights are already weighted by such things as flight size, and number of active players, (and who knows what else).

The site cannot take into consideration (because from a coding standpoint, there is probably nothing they CAN do to fairly take it into consideration) the fact that players can switch flights, flights are getting out of flight help and everything else that goes into dom.

The simple truth is, you are always going to have this dynamic when you allow players to choose teams. Since every person on site HAS to choose a flight to join, and there is no flight where players who are totally uninterested in dominance or exalting can go, this is what you end up with. You get the players who are competitive finding out that Earth (currently) is the dom powerhouse, so they switch or join earth. You get players who are completely uninterested in dom and don't want to feel pressured into it joining a flight that is known for NOT being dom oriented.

Earth will probably lose its place and another flight will take the top, because you also have players who want the rewards of dominance, but don't want to exalt, moving to earth.

Calculations also cannot take into consideration the idea that a small flight like Earth can still gain the help of many of the active exalters in a large flight like Shadow (think shadow is one of the largest) by those players training and sending the dragons to earth to be exalted.

The only way to make dominance truly fair would be to either just give dominance to flights on a rotating schedule, completely removing the competitive aspects of it, or assigning every player a random 'team' and basically forcing players to participate in dominance.


This comes up often, and many of the potential 'solutions' would be potentially worse than it is now.

Having it where players can 'sign up' for dominance could lead to users bullying others when they sign up and don't do what the players feel they should, or lead to having a core handful of each flight signing up and all other players funneling their dragons to those few players.

Making it where it depends on exalting activity would shift the bullying to casual exalters who may only exalt 2 or so dragons a week. They would be counted, thus making it harder for a team to obtain dominance. It would also mean that player would be discouraged from exalting dragons so that only a handful of users show up as 'exalters'.

On the other hand, creating a minimum number of dragons needing to be exalted before being counted means that casual exalters who can't always help by heavy exalting are left out, and either have to funnel their dragons to other users, or just not count for dominance.

Basically, I can't really see any way FR could have done the competition that would have made it any fairer.

To be honest, any sort of competition is inherently 'unfair' because it is a competition. Those players who excel at that type of competing or who are competitive and willing to work will always achieve the high places, while players who don't have the above won't achieve the same thing. In this case, replace player by flights, and it is the same thing. Flights who have worked out how to excel at exalting dragons and who have organized their flight into working together will always have the advantage over other flights who haven't.

Again, smaller flights will also have an advantage in that it is easier to organize a small group of people into doing something than it is getting a larger group to work together, but the only way to 'fix' that is to simply assign flights to every player. Letting players choose their own flights or letting them switch flights means that you get unbalanced flight sizes because you have players choosing specific flights for all sorts of reasons.
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unfortunately there is no real solution, as others have said. it's kind of as fair as it can be.

arcane typically doesn't really care about dom too much, and when we do, it's very hard to organize because of how big we are. not only is earth smaller and easier to organize, but seems like 90% of earth players are super into dom, so it's hard to compete. earth wins without even trying because of how often they train and exalt just on their own time.

like Jemadar said, players who really care about dom are going to gravitate towards flights that already do well in dom, like light and earth, whether or not they particularly care about the flight's aesthetic itself. other players who care more about the aesthetic than dom (like me for example) will likely choose arcane or shadow, since those are the most popular flights for whatever reason, and don't take dom history into consideration.

unfortunately, if you really like and care about dom, arcane is going to be very difficult for you. it sucks that the best option really is to change flights, but that's the most fair solution. competitions cannot be 100% fair.

you can try suggesting pushes in the arcane dom forums, or just move to a more dom-oriented flight. either way, good luck <3
unfortunately there is no real solution, as others have said. it's kind of as fair as it can be.

arcane typically doesn't really care about dom too much, and when we do, it's very hard to organize because of how big we are. not only is earth smaller and easier to organize, but seems like 90% of earth players are super into dom, so it's hard to compete. earth wins without even trying because of how often they train and exalt just on their own time.

like Jemadar said, players who really care about dom are going to gravitate towards flights that already do well in dom, like light and earth, whether or not they particularly care about the flight's aesthetic itself. other players who care more about the aesthetic than dom (like me for example) will likely choose arcane or shadow, since those are the most popular flights for whatever reason, and don't take dom history into consideration.

unfortunately, if you really like and care about dom, arcane is going to be very difficult for you. it sucks that the best option really is to change flights, but that's the most fair solution. competitions cannot be 100% fair.

you can try suggesting pushes in the arcane dom forums, or just move to a more dom-oriented flight. either way, good luck <3
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Force-moving people is never a good idea :/

I'd prefer if there were - in addition to the current rewards - individual rewards for exalting (dom shop or something), so that the rewards aren't fully tied to only placing on the board. That might sway some people to stay in flights that they are and it might partly even out the disbalance.
Force-moving people is never a good idea :/

I'd prefer if there were - in addition to the current rewards - individual rewards for exalting (dom shop or something), so that the rewards aren't fully tied to only placing on the board. That might sway some people to stay in flights that they are and it might partly even out the disbalance.
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[quote name="RedWillia" date="2019-12-07 01:28:53" ] Force-moving people is never a good idea :/ I'd prefer if there were - in addition to the current rewards - individual rewards for exalting (dom shop or something), so that the rewards aren't fully tied to only placing on the board. That might sway some people to stay in flights that they are and it might partly even out the disbalance. [/quote] I think that even if it doesn't actually sway people to stay in flights, it very well [b]might[/b] remove pressure from dominance so that players who aren't all that competitive but still want rewards will be able to get them without the competitive aspect. They won't be the same rewards, but they might even be better (I would prefer something tangible like an exclusive familiar or apparel to something intangible like a discount at the MP when I rarely use the MP except for festival weeks. Same thing for most other dom rewards except the gathering one. Discounts are nice, but if you don't use the mechanic that is discounted, then that discount is useless to you)
RedWillia wrote on 2019-12-07 01:28:53:
Force-moving people is never a good idea :/

I'd prefer if there were - in addition to the current rewards - individual rewards for exalting (dom shop or something), so that the rewards aren't fully tied to only placing on the board. That might sway some people to stay in flights that they are and it might partly even out the disbalance.
I think that even if it doesn't actually sway people to stay in flights, it very well might remove pressure from dominance so that players who aren't all that competitive but still want rewards will be able to get them without the competitive aspect. They won't be the same rewards, but they might even be better (I would prefer something tangible like an exclusive familiar or apparel to something intangible like a discount at the MP when I rarely use the MP except for festival weeks. Same thing for most other dom rewards except the gathering one. Discounts are nice, but if you don't use the mechanic that is discounted, then that discount is useless to you)
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I think the best solution to the dom problems would be to make exalting and dom more profitable. The rewards for winning dom are honestly pretty crap considering that a large flight like Shadow essentially needs to go into debt to win a battle, and is struggling to win an uncontested push against Earth.

In 2013 and 2014 dom battles were commonplace but now that you basically need OOF support to do anything (which is a disadvantage to larger flights, as they need more OOF support than small ones to offset the ratio), which is very expensive, there are far fewer large battles. Which is a bummer, I think dom battles are a lot of fun, not to mention being good for community engagement and the dragon economy.

I think straight up increasing monetary gains from exalting and dom is a bad idea (hello, inflation!) but I've always been a fan of the dom shop idea. Maybe exalting can generate tokens that can be traded for dom shop exclusive items, and maybe a flight winning dom can get a free exclusive item from the shop to incentivize pushing as well as exalting.
I think the best solution to the dom problems would be to make exalting and dom more profitable. The rewards for winning dom are honestly pretty crap considering that a large flight like Shadow essentially needs to go into debt to win a battle, and is struggling to win an uncontested push against Earth.

In 2013 and 2014 dom battles were commonplace but now that you basically need OOF support to do anything (which is a disadvantage to larger flights, as they need more OOF support than small ones to offset the ratio), which is very expensive, there are far fewer large battles. Which is a bummer, I think dom battles are a lot of fun, not to mention being good for community engagement and the dragon economy.

I think straight up increasing monetary gains from exalting and dom is a bad idea (hello, inflation!) but I've always been a fan of the dom shop idea. Maybe exalting can generate tokens that can be traded for dom shop exclusive items, and maybe a flight winning dom can get a free exclusive item from the shop to incentivize pushing as well as exalting.
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I don’t have much to say besides what others have said, no support.

If you are worried about dom, try contacting arcane’s dom team and maybe joining it? After you look at the schedule and get used to bigger flight’s dominance it’s not as bad.
I don’t have much to say besides what others have said, no support.

If you are worried about dom, try contacting arcane’s dom team and maybe joining it? After you look at the schedule and get used to bigger flight’s dominance it’s not as bad.
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I don't think dom is going to change anytime soon - like others have said, we can't take away player choice, and dom-oriented players will always move to smaller and more dom-heavy Flights. I'm a huge fan of the idea of a dom shop, though - increasing individual rewards will at least make it profitable to exalt individually, even if your Flight isn't doing it.
I don't think dom is going to change anytime soon - like others have said, we can't take away player choice, and dom-oriented players will always move to smaller and more dom-heavy Flights. I'm a huge fan of the idea of a dom shop, though - increasing individual rewards will at least make it profitable to exalt individually, even if your Flight isn't doing it.
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