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TOPIC | Breeding mechanic suggestion (eyes)
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[quote name="Lara8" date="2019-09-14 11:18:31" ] [quote name="@/pfvupl" date="2019-09-14 10:13:20" ] This suggestion has nothing to do with already existing dragons It doesn't seem fair to not support it just because it doesn't solve the 'old dragon, new eyes' problem ;-; [/quote] Most of the time, I would agree with this. I don't like to post no support on a given thing just because I would prefer the staff do a similar thing instead. But after what happened with Goat vials, the general air of 'okay, this fixed the problem of unattainable natural eyes, you can all stop complaining now', ignoring the many reasons elaborated upon elsewhere that [i]no it didn't[/i], I don't really want to see a tweak like this, which does little to help with breeding projects and nothing at all to help older dragons, be implemented while so many more versatile possibilities fall by the wayside. [/quote] This exactly. With a staff as small as FR's, we're likely only to get one solution per problem (if any). For example, concerning names/Unnamed on offspring lists, the nickname and hide offspring suggestions are most popular because they're the most versatile--they solve the most aspects of the problem. Concerning the whole eye-pocalypse, this just isn't the best solution. If FR rolled this suggestion out, it's very unlikely we'd see individual eye vials, eye transfers, a new scatterscroll, or any other eye mechanic. I say no support in general not because this suggestion isn't feasible or is bad or anything. I'm inclined to no support because there are better solutions out there, and I don't want to see those solutions barred for something mediocre that doesn't address many facets of the whole eye-pocalypse.
Lara8 wrote on 2019-09-14 11:18:31:
@/pfvupl wrote on 2019-09-14 10:13:20:
This suggestion has nothing to do with already existing dragons

It doesn't seem fair to not support it just because it doesn't solve the 'old dragon, new eyes' problem ;-;

Most of the time, I would agree with this. I don't like to post no support on a given thing just because I would prefer the staff do a similar thing instead.

But after what happened with Goat vials, the general air of 'okay, this fixed the problem of unattainable natural eyes, you can all stop complaining now', ignoring the many reasons elaborated upon elsewhere that no it didn't, I don't really want to see a tweak like this, which does little to help with breeding projects and nothing at all to help older dragons, be implemented while so many more versatile possibilities fall by the wayside.
This exactly. With a staff as small as FR's, we're likely only to get one solution per problem (if any). For example, concerning names/Unnamed on offspring lists, the nickname and hide offspring suggestions are most popular because they're the most versatile--they solve the most aspects of the problem.

Concerning the whole eye-pocalypse, this just isn't the best solution. If FR rolled this suggestion out, it's very unlikely we'd see individual eye vials, eye transfers, a new scatterscroll, or any other eye mechanic. I say no support in general not because this suggestion isn't feasible or is bad or anything. I'm inclined to no support because there are better solutions out there, and I don't want to see those solutions barred for something mediocre that doesn't address many facets of the whole eye-pocalypse.
Please, please don't ping me.

All dreams are but another reality. Don't forget.
This is not a solution to the eye-pocalypse, and isn't meant to be. It's meant to be a subtle "mediocre" change to the breeding mechanic, nothing too drastic. If FR had introduced eye types in the first place, people would have to deal with eye types being random like gender is random. Of course, it's not ideal that old dragons are excluded from breeding-only natural eye types. But I'm not trying to propose a solution to that by making this suggestion. To all posters in this thread: please do not [url=http://www1.flightrising.com/forums/frd/2457301]speak for the developers.[/url] I will quote them directly... [quote]Our intent was for natural eye types to only apply to dragons upon the moment of their hatching.[/quote] [quote]Vials of Scattersight will not be returning to the game; we still think it's important that from this point forward, natural eye types be part of the breeding system exclusively.[/quote] [u]Concerning new eyes on old dragons[/u], based on these quotes, your values don't align with FR developers' values. This is a suggestion that would affect natural eye types on dragons moving forward, i.e. newly hatched dragons. If they have no plans to give new eyes to old dragons, why not suggest different ways of getting breeding-only eyes on newly hatched dragons. FR could have introduced the eye mechanic in the first place to avoid disappointing older users and their old dragons, but they didn't, which is unfortunate. If you don't support this suggestion because you want a solution to the old dragons, new eyes problem, fine, but this suggestion simply doesn't deal with that. Your lack of support would be more valuable elsewhere. I'm simply proposing a mechanic that would eat into chances of hatching Common eyes. Practical implementation of this: I find cute dragon with Unusual eyes. I find cute, similar dragon that coincidentally has Unusual eyes. I breed them. I get 18% Unusual eyes instead of 9% Unusual eyes. I like Unusual eyes. I sell them in my hatchery, regardless of their eye type: I just happen to hatch more Unusual eyes than normal. I am happy, because I prefer Unusual eyes to Common eyes, and I get twice as many of them. It's not as deliberate as it is coincidental, kind of a hidden mechanic. It's not supposed to cater to people's needs 100% of the time. It doesn't apply in most cases-- only where it is convenient and wanted. [quote name=pfvupl] People who don't care can ignore it; people who don't like it can get rid of it; people who like it can enjoy it.[/quote]
This is not a solution to the eye-pocalypse, and isn't meant to be.

It's meant to be a subtle "mediocre" change to the breeding mechanic, nothing too drastic.

If FR had introduced eye types in the first place, people would have to deal with eye types being random like gender is random. Of course, it's not ideal that old dragons are excluded from breeding-only natural eye types. But I'm not trying to propose a solution to that by making this suggestion.

To all posters in this thread: please do not speak for the developers.

I will quote them directly...
Quote:
Our intent was for natural eye types to only apply to dragons upon the moment of their hatching.
Quote:
Vials of Scattersight will not be returning to the game; we still think it's important that from this point forward, natural eye types be part of the breeding system exclusively.

Concerning new eyes on old dragons, based on these quotes, your values don't align with FR developers' values.

This is a suggestion that would affect natural eye types on dragons moving forward, i.e. newly hatched dragons. If they have no plans to give new eyes to old dragons, why not suggest different ways of getting breeding-only eyes on newly hatched dragons.

FR could have introduced the eye mechanic in the first place to avoid disappointing older users and their old dragons, but they didn't, which is unfortunate.

If you don't support this suggestion because you want a solution to the old dragons, new eyes problem, fine, but this suggestion simply doesn't deal with that. Your lack of support would be more valuable elsewhere. I'm simply proposing a mechanic that would eat into chances of hatching Common eyes.

Practical implementation of this:

I find cute dragon with Unusual eyes. I find cute, similar dragon that coincidentally has Unusual eyes. I breed them. I get 18% Unusual eyes instead of 9% Unusual eyes. I like Unusual eyes. I sell them in my hatchery, regardless of their eye type: I just happen to hatch more Unusual eyes than normal. I am happy, because I prefer Unusual eyes to Common eyes, and I get twice as many of them. It's not as deliberate as it is coincidental, kind of a hidden mechanic. It's not supposed to cater to people's needs 100% of the time. It doesn't apply in most cases-- only where it is convenient and wanted.
pfvupl wrote:
People who don't care can ignore it; people who don't like it can get rid of it; people who like it can enjoy it.
Eye See You
My point was that if the change in ratio was too small, then it isn't really worth it to implement, because few people would benefit from such a change.

However, if it were enough to be noticable, no matter how small, then it could be incredibly magnified by the sheer number of dragons being bred and hatched every day.

Not to mention, and while this didn't go into my general no support, I also feel that if we *aren't* going to get ways to get the new eye types on old dragons, then I feel it is best to leave the mechanic as it is.

Also, just one thing: if the site had this mechanic from the beginning, playesr would have had the option to choose whether they wanted this imperial with perfect colors, but common eyes, or this imperial with one color off but primal eyes. There are 5 million dragons on site that players were never able to make that choice about.
My point was that if the change in ratio was too small, then it isn't really worth it to implement, because few people would benefit from such a change.

However, if it were enough to be noticable, no matter how small, then it could be incredibly magnified by the sheer number of dragons being bred and hatched every day.

Not to mention, and while this didn't go into my general no support, I also feel that if we *aren't* going to get ways to get the new eye types on old dragons, then I feel it is best to leave the mechanic as it is.

Also, just one thing: if the site had this mechanic from the beginning, playesr would have had the option to choose whether they wanted this imperial with perfect colors, but common eyes, or this imperial with one color off but primal eyes. There are 5 million dragons on site that players were never able to make that choice about.
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[quote name="pfvupl" date="2019-09-14 15:37:22" ] [u]Concerning new eyes on old dragons[/u], based on these quotes, your values don't align with FR developers' values. [/quote] Well, then the devs are wrong. They know they messed up, they know that, even a year after the implementation of eye types, that so many remain unhappy. Breeders and collectors alike. It's a bad system, and needs to be changed. I'm fine with your suggestion to a point, but I also think it doesn't help ALL breeders, which is another reason I said no support. I might be trying to breed a dragon with a specific eye type. Faceted maybe. Both parents are unusual, not because I wanted them to be, but because they had the right colors for the project. I'm already at a massive disadvantage trying to get the right colors + sex + eye type, but it's whatever, I can keep mashing these two together. But I also run into the issue of getting a buttload more unusual eyes than I should be. Why is that? Oh. Because the percentages were changed to favor eye types of parents. Great. Now I either 1) have to take MORE TIME to breed the dragon I'm after, already mostly a futile attempt or 2) I have to find a completely different pair, or at lease one other dragon with similar colors, and I might have to sacrifice the range I had originally, or maybe everyone else in these colors is related, etc. It's only helpful to a select few breeders, so as-is I don't think it'd be helpful really. If it was a potion of probability you could brew, to skew eye types to a certain type further (not guarantee it) then maybe.
pfvupl wrote on 2019-09-14 15:37:22:
Concerning new eyes on old dragons, based on these quotes, your values don't align with FR developers' values.

Well, then the devs are wrong. They know they messed up, they know that, even a year after the implementation of eye types, that so many remain unhappy. Breeders and collectors alike. It's a bad system, and needs to be changed.

I'm fine with your suggestion to a point, but I also think it doesn't help ALL breeders, which is another reason I said no support.

I might be trying to breed a dragon with a specific eye type. Faceted maybe. Both parents are unusual, not because I wanted them to be, but because they had the right colors for the project. I'm already at a massive disadvantage trying to get the right colors + sex + eye type, but it's whatever, I can keep mashing these two together. But I also run into the issue of getting a buttload more unusual eyes than I should be. Why is that? Oh. Because the percentages were changed to favor eye types of parents. Great. Now I either 1) have to take MORE TIME to breed the dragon I'm after, already mostly a futile attempt or 2) I have to find a completely different pair, or at lease one other dragon with similar colors, and I might have to sacrifice the range I had originally, or maybe everyone else in these colors is related, etc.

It's only helpful to a select few breeders, so as-is I don't think it'd be helpful really.

If it was a potion of probability you could brew, to skew eye types to a certain type further (not guarantee it) then maybe.
Nq0eoGi.png
@Jemadar Essentially, few people would explicitly benefit from this change, but I don't think it is so few that it isn't worth implementing. I think it would only magnify odds significantly in the "this dragon is fodder anyway" sense, i.e. magnified odds for people who don't care, whose dragons will be exalted anyway. [quote]Not to mention, and while this didn't go into my general no support, I also feel that if we *aren't* going to get ways to get the new eye types on old dragons, then I feel it is best to leave the mechanic as it is.[/quote] Why? It's fine that you don't support this suggestion, but I don't understand why and you don't really give a reason. There are 5 million dragons on the site who don't get special eyes, and they don't get to have them because eye types weren't introduced in the first place. Agree? I don't understand your point.
@Jemadar

Essentially, few people would explicitly benefit from this change, but I don't think it is so few that it isn't worth implementing.

I think it would only magnify odds significantly in the "this dragon is fodder anyway" sense, i.e. magnified odds for people who don't care, whose dragons will be exalted anyway.
Quote:
Not to mention, and while this didn't go into my general no support, I also feel that if we *aren't* going to get ways to get the new eye types on old dragons, then I feel it is best to leave the mechanic as it is.

Why? It's fine that you don't support this suggestion, but I don't understand why and you don't really give a reason.

There are 5 million dragons on the site who don't get special eyes, and they don't get to have them because eye types weren't introduced in the first place. Agree? I don't understand your point.
Eye See You
@Cadash

You missed the part where I mention the Vial of Tempered Sight to completely avoid that problem. Your problem can be solved for 2.5kT.

Plus, having two Unusual-eyed dragons doesn't eat into your chances of Faceted. It eats into your chances of Common. So it was never a problem in the first place.

Your suggestion to skew eye types? Pretty cool. Eye probability could be unique to a lair (within certain rules/ranges). I could do some magic brewing and hatch more Unusual eyes overall; bless my whole lair. Even brewing vials to affect individual nests would be cool.
@Cadash

You missed the part where I mention the Vial of Tempered Sight to completely avoid that problem. Your problem can be solved for 2.5kT.

Plus, having two Unusual-eyed dragons doesn't eat into your chances of Faceted. It eats into your chances of Common. So it was never a problem in the first place.

Your suggestion to skew eye types? Pretty cool. Eye probability could be unique to a lair (within certain rules/ranges). I could do some magic brewing and hatch more Unusual eyes overall; bless my whole lair. Even brewing vials to affect individual nests would be cool.
Eye See You
@pfvupl

I'd much rather buy a "vial of faceted eyes" for 10kt from the marketplace and not worry about eyes at all, and go back to only worrying about colors and if my dragon will be born the right sex or not.

Also I was thinking per individual nests, since not every nest will need the same thing.
@pfvupl

I'd much rather buy a "vial of faceted eyes" for 10kt from the marketplace and not worry about eyes at all, and go back to only worrying about colors and if my dragon will be born the right sex or not.

Also I was thinking per individual nests, since not every nest will need the same thing.
Nq0eoGi.png
@Cadash

Yeah I respect that you'd rather have that option available but this suggestion isn't about that. It's not about individual dragons getting a specific eye type. It's about hatching dragons overall with more of a certain eye type.

I know that I want more Unusual eyes overall, but it makes more sense to have something like that for individual nests because not everybody wants the same eye type for all of their projects, so I agree.
@Cadash

Yeah I respect that you'd rather have that option available but this suggestion isn't about that. It's not about individual dragons getting a specific eye type. It's about hatching dragons overall with more of a certain eye type.

I know that I want more Unusual eyes overall, but it makes more sense to have something like that for individual nests because not everybody wants the same eye type for all of their projects, so I agree.
Eye See You
Quote:
It's meant to be a subtle "mediocre" change to the breeding mechanic, nothing too drastic.

Then this is not worth implementing.

I would much rather have a true solution to the eye-pocalypse than a mediocre solution that only helps a very niche subset of breeders.

Also, I am not speaking for the devs. I am speaking for myself and what I would like to see; suggestions of how I think FR would benefit and solutions to problems I see on site. Kinda the whole point of this forum.

Individual eye vials would be MUCH more helpful to the playerbase at large. It benefits many more people and dragons and soothes many more enraged emotions. Allowing players to transfer eyes benefits more people. A new scattervial could help the site economy by putting it in the MP (for gems or treasure).

As I said before, we're likely to only get one solution to the complaints about eyes on dragons, so I'd like that solution to encompass as many facets of the problem as possible rather than cater to a niche group over a much larger sect of users.
Quote:
It's meant to be a subtle "mediocre" change to the breeding mechanic, nothing too drastic.

Then this is not worth implementing.

I would much rather have a true solution to the eye-pocalypse than a mediocre solution that only helps a very niche subset of breeders.

Also, I am not speaking for the devs. I am speaking for myself and what I would like to see; suggestions of how I think FR would benefit and solutions to problems I see on site. Kinda the whole point of this forum.

Individual eye vials would be MUCH more helpful to the playerbase at large. It benefits many more people and dragons and soothes many more enraged emotions. Allowing players to transfer eyes benefits more people. A new scattervial could help the site economy by putting it in the MP (for gems or treasure).

As I said before, we're likely to only get one solution to the complaints about eyes on dragons, so I'd like that solution to encompass as many facets of the problem as possible rather than cater to a niche group over a much larger sect of users.
Please, please don't ping me.

All dreams are but another reality. Don't forget.
You're speaking for the devs if you're talking about how likely they are to change mechanics/implement new features. This suggestion is not a solution to a problem.

I don't care if individual eye vials would be more helpful to the playerbase at large. This suggestion isn't meant to be as convenient as eye vials nor is it meant to do away with the randomness of eye types.

Subtle =/= mediocre. I was being sarcastic.

You're speaking for the devs if you're talking about how likely they are to change mechanics/implement new features. This suggestion is not a solution to a problem.

I don't care if individual eye vials would be more helpful to the playerbase at large. This suggestion isn't meant to be as convenient as eye vials nor is it meant to do away with the randomness of eye types.

Subtle =/= mediocre. I was being sarcastic.

Eye See You
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