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Make Flight Rising better by sharing your ideas!
TOPIC | Cut skin/accent makers slack.
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[quote name="Jemadar" date="2021-10-18 06:37:52" ] They could easily do a guide the way I have seen people do guides with lots of pictures. Guideline for gore: 1. Minor cuts allowed. Example Images: AllowedImage1Link AllowedImage2link NotallowedImage1Link NotallowedImage2link. (pretend those are links to images). Players who just want to see the guidelines get a textual guide, while those who want to get more specific, or want to see more 'concrete' guides can look at the images. The rest of the guide would continue with a couple of allowed examples of what they mean, and then a couple of examples of what is 'going too far'. [/quote] A guide where you have to open every example in a new tab would be incredibly cumbersome. Maybe have them collapsed with a toggle to un-collapse all. But again I think it's best to contain it to its own page, with warnings, for people who want to toe the gore line.
Jemadar wrote on 2021-10-18 06:37:52:
They could easily do a guide the way I have seen people do guides with lots of pictures.

Guideline for gore:

1. Minor cuts allowed. Example Images: AllowedImage1Link AllowedImage2link NotallowedImage1Link NotallowedImage2link.

(pretend those are links to images). Players who just want to see the guidelines get a textual guide, while those who want to get more specific, or want to see more 'concrete' guides can look at the images.

The rest of the guide would continue with a couple of allowed examples of what they mean, and then a couple of examples of what is 'going too far'.

A guide where you have to open every example in a new tab would be incredibly cumbersome. Maybe have them collapsed with a toggle to un-collapse all. But again I think it's best to contain it to its own page, with warnings, for people who want to toe the gore line.
Survival is the theme for plague.
Have you ever seen two lions fight? Or two stallions ?
Scars and wounds are a part of survival!!
Healed scars are not gorey, it's a part of life.
Red blod are a sign of health not suffering.
Green, purple or black blood are NOT healthy.
Why must red be "bad" ? It's the normal color of blod.
It's not equal with suffering.

I will NEVER understand the staff reasoning..
Survival is the theme for plague.
Have you ever seen two lions fight? Or two stallions ?
Scars and wounds are a part of survival!!
Healed scars are not gorey, it's a part of life.
Red blod are a sign of health not suffering.
Green, purple or black blood are NOT healthy.
Why must red be "bad" ? It's the normal color of blod.
It's not equal with suffering.

I will NEVER understand the staff reasoning..
NO LONGER ACTIVE.

I LEFT FR AND GIVEN AWAY MY STUFF.
[quote name="Dabble" date="2021-10-18 11:50:39" ] Red blod are a sign of health not suffering. Green, purple or black blood are NOT healthy. Why must red be "bad" ? It's the normal color of blod. It's not equal with suffering. I will NEVER understand the staff reasoning.. [/quote] I think red being the "normal" color of blood is why staff cracks down on it harder. In some people's minds, non-red blood equals "fantasy" blood colors, not a sign of illness, in fact media is sometimes censored by turning blood green or pink. I think this is also why body horror is allowed more than gore is, body horror such as multigaze or multi-eyed skins is less realistic than bloody wounds. That being said, I agree with your point about scars, those should almost always be allowed.
Dabble wrote on 2021-10-18 11:50:39:
Red blod are a sign of health not suffering.
Green, purple or black blood are NOT healthy.
Why must red be "bad" ? It's the normal color of blod.
It's not equal with suffering.

I will NEVER understand the staff reasoning..

I think red being the "normal" color of blood is why staff cracks down on it harder. In some people's minds, non-red blood equals "fantasy" blood colors, not a sign of illness, in fact media is sometimes censored by turning blood green or pink. I think this is also why body horror is allowed more than gore is, body horror such as multigaze or multi-eyed skins is less realistic than bloody wounds. That being said, I agree with your point about scars, those should almost always be allowed.
!! signature under construction !!
I really support the idea of a simple visual guide. There is no need to go on the extremes with the examples either - the bare minimum that would be not allowed as an example for blood amount coverage limits on the dragon would be enough to show.

Also would be just my opinion on whats fantasy blood to me...
Yellow, green, purple and blue are other living beings normal blood colors. All depends of whats the blood composed of.
Imo it would be fantasy blood if it's cottoncandy, orange juice or melted minerals, which are obvious fantasy blood components - aka the animal cannot actually function with candy as blood thus cannot even be alive as per the canonial things of flightrising as far as i know.
I really support the idea of a simple visual guide. There is no need to go on the extremes with the examples either - the bare minimum that would be not allowed as an example for blood amount coverage limits on the dragon would be enough to show.

Also would be just my opinion on whats fantasy blood to me...
Yellow, green, purple and blue are other living beings normal blood colors. All depends of whats the blood composed of.
Imo it would be fantasy blood if it's cottoncandy, orange juice or melted minerals, which are obvious fantasy blood components - aka the animal cannot actually function with candy as blood thus cannot even be alive as per the canonial things of flightrising as far as i know.
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I feel like, if so many people are still confused on the clarifications, then the clarifications weren't good enough and should be revisited.

And I really hope staff is paying attention to this forum and realizing that we arent asking for major gore and guts everywhere. None of us want that. (At least none of us in this thread. Whoever is sending extensive gore to moderators is most likely a minority.) We just want some minor blood and scars and a few minor wounds. But not anything major.

I've also been thinking about that tagging system people keep mentioning here. I'll be honest, if the tagging system gets implemented, I would 100% gladly volunteer to go through the database of every single item and tag things. Im sure many others in this thread alone would be willing to help. Because it'd be benefiting everyone.

Tags dont even need to be excessive. Just like, catch all tags. Blood, bones, wounds, scars, bugs, plants. Things like that. Id love it if it was tagged by colors too. Like, if a skin is predominantly blue, then tag it blue. If blue and green then tag as such. Maybe no tag if its one very minor color in it. Like a single necklace that's red. (Except a jewelry tag, maybe.) But yeah.

(Edit for clarification; And i dont mean like the database for colors where its every color on the wheel. I just mean, all blue shades are just 'blue'. Having to go through each individual color to look at skins can be kind of tedious, lol.)

I cant began to describe how much i want to look for skins based on colors. Or like, flowers, butterflies, things like that. The tagging system doesnt need to be a big thing with many highly specific sub categories. I think a tag for non-red blood could be nice, for the people who are okay with blood but not red blood. Im sure someone could figure out a name for that tag.

But yeah. I just feel like, if people need more clarification, then the clarification wasn't clear enough. (Especially since some things that should allegedly be okay apparently arent. Which proves there is still a miscommunication somewhere). And if staff agrees to a tagging system, I would be 100% willing to put in the hours to tag everything, because thats how badly I would love a tagging system in general.
I feel like, if so many people are still confused on the clarifications, then the clarifications weren't good enough and should be revisited.

And I really hope staff is paying attention to this forum and realizing that we arent asking for major gore and guts everywhere. None of us want that. (At least none of us in this thread. Whoever is sending extensive gore to moderators is most likely a minority.) We just want some minor blood and scars and a few minor wounds. But not anything major.

I've also been thinking about that tagging system people keep mentioning here. I'll be honest, if the tagging system gets implemented, I would 100% gladly volunteer to go through the database of every single item and tag things. Im sure many others in this thread alone would be willing to help. Because it'd be benefiting everyone.

Tags dont even need to be excessive. Just like, catch all tags. Blood, bones, wounds, scars, bugs, plants. Things like that. Id love it if it was tagged by colors too. Like, if a skin is predominantly blue, then tag it blue. If blue and green then tag as such. Maybe no tag if its one very minor color in it. Like a single necklace that's red. (Except a jewelry tag, maybe.) But yeah.

(Edit for clarification; And i dont mean like the database for colors where its every color on the wheel. I just mean, all blue shades are just 'blue'. Having to go through each individual color to look at skins can be kind of tedious, lol.)

I cant began to describe how much i want to look for skins based on colors. Or like, flowers, butterflies, things like that. The tagging system doesnt need to be a big thing with many highly specific sub categories. I think a tag for non-red blood could be nice, for the people who are okay with blood but not red blood. Im sure someone could figure out a name for that tag.

But yeah. I just feel like, if people need more clarification, then the clarification wasn't clear enough. (Especially since some things that should allegedly be okay apparently arent. Which proves there is still a miscommunication somewhere). And if staff agrees to a tagging system, I would be 100% willing to put in the hours to tag everything, because thats how badly I would love a tagging system in general.
9d21b9f3b3688b826fe1b99c787d3f75d8ae1a82.png
[quote name="RobotMothPie" date="2021-10-19 00:53:42" ] I feel like, if so many people are still confused on the clarifications, then the clarifications weren't good enough and should be revisited. And I really hope staff is paying attention to this forum and realizing that we arent asking for major gore and guts everywhere. None of us want that. (At least none of us in this thread. Whoever is sending extensive gore to moderators is most likely a minority.) [b]We just want some minor blood and scars and a few minor wounds. But not anything major.[/b] [/quote] Doubly so because the guide for skins/accents says "Scars, light wounds, and blood splatter are generally okay" but as we can see in this thread, moderation is much more heavy handed and anything that vaguely resembles blood (ie, is red or even brown) can get rejected. They need to get their act together and actually allow what they say they allow.
RobotMothPie wrote on 2021-10-19 00:53:42:
I feel like, if so many people are still confused on the clarifications, then the clarifications weren't good enough and should be revisited.

And I really hope staff is paying attention to this forum and realizing that we arent asking for major gore and guts everywhere. None of us want that. (At least none of us in this thread. Whoever is sending extensive gore to moderators is most likely a minority.) We just want some minor blood and scars and a few minor wounds. But not anything major.

Doubly so because the guide for skins/accents says "Scars, light wounds, and blood splatter are generally okay" but as we can see in this thread, moderation is much more heavy handed and anything that vaguely resembles blood (ie, is red or even brown) can get rejected. They need to get their act together and actually allow what they say they allow.
^Agree with RobotMothPie, I would also volunteer to go through skins to tag. Not sure if there’s some legality thing about not being allowed to take volunteers for something “jobby,” but I would love to contribute to my favorite site, help current and future players, and meanwhile look at a long list of beautiful skins.
^Agree with RobotMothPie, I would also volunteer to go through skins to tag. Not sure if there’s some legality thing about not being allowed to take volunteers for something “jobby,” but I would love to contribute to my favorite site, help current and future players, and meanwhile look at a long list of beautiful skins.
The clarifications weren't clear enough IMO. Staff needs to make a visual guide.
The clarifications weren't clear enough IMO. Staff needs to make a visual guide.
pings off | plz no random friend requests/PMs/profile comments
[quote name="RobotMothPie" date="2021-10-19 00:53:42" ] I feel like, if so many people are still confused on the clarifications, then the clarifications weren't good enough and should be revisited. And I really hope staff is paying attention to this forum and realizing that we arent asking for major gore and guts everywhere. None of us want that. (At least none of us in this thread. Whoever is sending extensive gore to moderators is most likely a minority.) We just want some minor blood and scars and a few minor wounds. But not anything major. I've also been thinking about that tagging system people keep mentioning here. I'll be honest, if the tagging system gets implemented, I would 100% gladly volunteer to go through the database of every single item and tag things. Im sure many others in this thread alone would be willing to help. Because it'd be benefiting everyone. Tags dont even need to be excessive. Just like, catch all tags. Blood, bones, wounds, scars, bugs, plants. Things like that. Id love it if it was tagged by colors too. Like, if a skin is predominantly blue, then tag it blue. If blue and green then tag as such. Maybe no tag if its one very minor color in it. Like a single necklace that's red. (Except a jewelry tag, maybe.) But yeah. (Edit for clarification; And i dont mean like the database for colors where its every color on the wheel. I just mean, all blue shades are just 'blue'. Having to go through each individual color to look at skins can be kind of tedious, lol.) I cant began to describe how much i want to look for skins based on colors. Or like, flowers, butterflies, things like that. The tagging system doesnt need to be a big thing with many highly specific sub categories. I think a tag for non-red blood could be nice, for the people who are okay with blood but not red blood. Im sure someone could figure out a name for that tag. But yeah. I just feel like, if people need more clarification, then the clarification wasn't clear enough. (Especially since some things that should allegedly be okay apparently arent. Which proves there is still a miscommunication somewhere). And if staff agrees to a tagging system, I would be 100% willing to put in the hours to tag everything, because thats how badly I would love a tagging system in general. [/quote] ^^^^^^ absolutely all of this. phenomenal explanation. if not a tagging system, a visual and written guide would be the bare minimum.
RobotMothPie wrote on 2021-10-19 00:53:42:
I feel like, if so many people are still confused on the clarifications, then the clarifications weren't good enough and should be revisited.

And I really hope staff is paying attention to this forum and realizing that we arent asking for major gore and guts everywhere. None of us want that. (At least none of us in this thread. Whoever is sending extensive gore to moderators is most likely a minority.) We just want some minor blood and scars and a few minor wounds. But not anything major.

I've also been thinking about that tagging system people keep mentioning here. I'll be honest, if the tagging system gets implemented, I would 100% gladly volunteer to go through the database of every single item and tag things. Im sure many others in this thread alone would be willing to help. Because it'd be benefiting everyone.

Tags dont even need to be excessive. Just like, catch all tags. Blood, bones, wounds, scars, bugs, plants. Things like that. Id love it if it was tagged by colors too. Like, if a skin is predominantly blue, then tag it blue. If blue and green then tag as such. Maybe no tag if its one very minor color in it. Like a single necklace that's red. (Except a jewelry tag, maybe.) But yeah.

(Edit for clarification; And i dont mean like the database for colors where its every color on the wheel. I just mean, all blue shades are just 'blue'. Having to go through each individual color to look at skins can be kind of tedious, lol.)

I cant began to describe how much i want to look for skins based on colors. Or like, flowers, butterflies, things like that. The tagging system doesnt need to be a big thing with many highly specific sub categories. I think a tag for non-red blood could be nice, for the people who are okay with blood but not red blood. Im sure someone could figure out a name for that tag.

But yeah. I just feel like, if people need more clarification, then the clarification wasn't clear enough. (Especially since some things that should allegedly be okay apparently arent. Which proves there is still a miscommunication somewhere). And if staff agrees to a tagging system, I would be 100% willing to put in the hours to tag everything, because thats how badly I would love a tagging system in general.

^^^^^^ absolutely all of this. phenomenal explanation. if not a tagging system, a visual and written guide would be the bare minimum.
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spencer - they/he/ix - fr +1
Hello everyone. We're going to go ahead and lock the thread now. In part because of claims that add to the confusion, and in part because we're going to [b][url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/2369632]respond to some of your concerns[/url][/b] in this post. ----- [b][size=4]First: Thank you[/size][/b] To our players here who have made every effort to make a good-faith arguments and strived to ensure your points are accurate as possible, [b]we sincerely thank you[/b] for your diligence and dedication to constructive discussion. Thank you to everyone who [b]specifically pointed out the following:[/b] [list][*]The skin and accent rules have not changed since 2016. [*]The color red is [I]not[/I] a banned color. [*]Gory or violent skins or accents with low-ID numbers [b]were grandfathered in[/b] during the 2016 rule change and shouldn't be used for comparison. [*][b]Text descriptions are not the same as image artwork[/b] and should not be used as justification for gory or violent visual art.[/list] [b][size=4]Second: Privacy[/size][/b] We don't discuss the details of rejections with third-parties for reasons related to player privacy. We understand this response in particular can be frustrating when an issue is high-profile, but we will not discuss our decision regarding a player's submission with anyone but them, even if it means only one side of the issue will be heard. [b][size=4]Third: How Rejections Work[/size][/b] Third and directly related to the second point: [b]All skin/accent artists receive a detailed rejection message with guidance on how to address the flagged issues.[/b] If necessary, a visual guide clarifying areas of confusion on a specific design can be provided to that design's artist. And all skin/accent artists are able to directly ask the Skin and Accent team for more information in the [b][url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/skin/1199521]Skin and Accent Problems thread.[/url][/b] [b]A rejection does not mean the blueprint the artist purchased can no longer be used, forcing the artist to purchase another one.[/b] The design on the blueprint can be changed and submitted [b]an unlimited number[/b] of times until approved and turned into an official [I]Flight Rising[/I] in-game item. [b][size=4]Finally: How Approvals Work & Why[/size][/b] We realize, understand, and acknowledge your points that the approval process can feel inconsistent. It can feel this way because—as noted in the [b][url=https://www1.flightrising.com/wiki/skins/1]Skin and Accent Rules[/url][/b] themselves—[b]all designs are approved or rejected on a case-by-case basis.[/b] The approval process is inherently subjective. [b]Why are submitted designs reviewed on a case-by-case basis?[/b] Because once approved, that skin or accent design becomes [b][u]an official [I]Flight Rising[/I] in-game item,[/u][/b] which can then be viewed by anyone in multiple areas and ways: on a dragon in the lair, forums, Scrying Workshop, on the front page, private messages, linked in the forums, and viewed in the Game Database. This means that for designs depicting violence, injuries, or gore, the bar is [b]high[/b] and if we aren't sure about it, we will err on the side of caution during review. For this reason, the likelihood of a defined violence and gore checklist for artists to reference is low, as that would limit our ability to protect our game and business. We can't stress enough that as site administrators and game developers, we [b]must[/b] account for the worst-case scenarios. Going forward, if any skin or accent artists have questions about their designs and approval, please continue to use the [b][url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/skin/1199521]Skin and Accent Problems[/url][/b] thread. For rules and policies feedback or future suggestions on this issue, [b]all[/b] players should use [b][url=https://www1.flightrising.com/site/contact-us]Contact Us.[/url][/b] ----- We understand from reading your feedback that not everyone will agree with or like this answer, but it is our answer and response to your shared concerns and confusion. We hope this will help to clarify why the skin and accent approval process is the way it is for both artists and non-artists alike, and that this understanding will make this year's [I]Riot of Rot[/I] an overall more enjoyable experience for everyone.
Hello everyone. We're going to go ahead and lock the thread now. In part because of claims that add to the confusion, and in part because we're going to respond to some of your concerns in this post.


First: Thank you

To our players here who have made every effort to make a good-faith arguments and strived to ensure your points are accurate as possible, we sincerely thank you for your diligence and dedication to constructive discussion.

Thank you to everyone who specifically pointed out the following:
  • The skin and accent rules have not changed since 2016.
  • The color red is not a banned color.
  • Gory or violent skins or accents with low-ID numbers were grandfathered in during the 2016 rule change and shouldn't be used for comparison.
  • Text descriptions are not the same as image artwork and should not be used as justification for gory or violent visual art.



Second: Privacy

We don't discuss the details of rejections with third-parties for reasons related to player privacy. We understand this response in particular can be frustrating when an issue is high-profile, but we will not discuss our decision regarding a player's submission with anyone but them, even if it means only one side of the issue will be heard.



Third: How Rejections Work

Third and directly related to the second point: All skin/accent artists receive a detailed rejection message with guidance on how to address the flagged issues. If necessary, a visual guide clarifying areas of confusion on a specific design can be provided to that design's artist. And all skin/accent artists are able to directly ask the Skin and Accent team for more information in the Skin and Accent Problems thread.

A rejection does not mean the blueprint the artist purchased can no longer be used, forcing the artist to purchase another one. The design on the blueprint can be changed and submitted an unlimited number of times until approved and turned into an official Flight Rising in-game item.



Finally: How Approvals Work & Why

We realize, understand, and acknowledge your points that the approval process can feel inconsistent. It can feel this way because—as noted in the Skin and Accent Rules themselves—all designs are approved or rejected on a case-by-case basis. The approval process is inherently subjective.

Why are submitted designs reviewed on a case-by-case basis?

Because once approved, that skin or accent design becomes an official Flight Rising in-game item, which can then be viewed by anyone in multiple areas and ways: on a dragon in the lair, forums, Scrying Workshop, on the front page, private messages, linked in the forums, and viewed in the Game Database.

This means that for designs depicting violence, injuries, or gore, the bar is high and if we aren't sure about it, we will err on the side of caution during review. For this reason, the likelihood of a defined violence and gore checklist for artists to reference is low, as that would limit our ability to protect our game and business. We can't stress enough that as site administrators and game developers, we must account for the worst-case scenarios.

Going forward, if any skin or accent artists have questions about their designs and approval, please continue to use the Skin and Accent Problems thread. For rules and policies feedback or future suggestions on this issue, all players should use Contact Us.



We understand from reading your feedback that not everyone will agree with or like this answer, but it is our answer and response to your shared concerns and confusion. We hope this will help to clarify why the skin and accent approval process is the way it is for both artists and non-artists alike, and that this understanding will make this year's Riot of Rot an overall more enjoyable experience for everyone.
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