[quote name="Nekroba" date="2021-10-16 18:21:36" ]
If you're gonna talk about site genes, I always imaged red crackles, like garnet or carmine, make good 'blood'
Bloody mouth, hands, and claws. Not exactly a splatter pattern- more liked dried/drying blood.
[/quote]
Not to mention the colour Blood. I have a lot of blood crackle tert dragons for this reason.
If you're gonna talk about site genes, I always imaged red crackles, like garnet or carmine, make good 'blood'
Bloody mouth, hands, and claws. Not exactly a splatter pattern- more liked dried/drying blood.
Not to mention the colour Blood. I have a lot of blood crackle tert dragons for this reason.
Popping back in to say, these guys looked like the are covered in blood & they are just site colors & genes, no skins or clothes.
[url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/68993265][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/avatars/689933/68993265.png[/img][/url] [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/69186434][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/avatars/691865/69186434.png[/img][/url]
Popping back in to say, these guys looked like the are covered in blood & they are just site colors & genes, no skins or clothes.
On the subject of what constitutes suffering, while I'm looking at them,
[item=Frigid Fugitive Shackles][item=Icicle Chains]
So I guess ice flights allowed to torture people, and we're allowed to visually depict that (skin freezing hurts. I know. It gets cold where I live.)
I know that the frigid fugitive shackles are from before the rule rewrite, but the icicle chains aren't.
Looked into ice more and there's a winning skin from 2017 depicting what is implied to be purposefully inflicted frostbite (on the hands and feet, and considering the name.),
[skin=21136]
I guess this is kind of in line with "just because its not red doesn't mean its not suffering, so suffering is a weird guideline" argument.
On the subject of what constitutes suffering, while I'm looking at them,
Frigid Fugitive Shackles
Apparel
The frozen-over limbs of this dragon are forever bound by frigid shackles.(Crystalline Gala 2014 Holiday Item.)
0
Icicle Chains
Apparel
Enchanted chains freeze and bind the wings of prisoners. Only those acknowledged by the frost may wear them unencumbered. (Crystalline Gala Item 2018.)
0
So I guess ice flights allowed to torture people, and we're allowed to visually depict that (skin freezing hurts. I know. It gets cold where I live.)
I know that the frigid fugitive shackles are from before the rule rewrite, but the icicle chains aren't.
Looked into ice more and there's a winning skin from 2017 depicting what is implied to be purposefully inflicted frostbite (on the hands and feet, and considering the name.),
Accent: Frostbitten Fugitive
Pearlcatcher Female Only
Crystalline Gala 2017. (5/14) Designed by houseteeth.
Itemid #21136
I guess this is kind of in line with "just because its not red doesn't mean its not suffering, so suffering is a weird guideline" argument.
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If we do get a visual guide it might be a good idea if we are given examples made by the staff themselves or offered by volunteers, only downside would be folks who aren’t into gore might end up getting triggered by the examples
And agreed on the ice flight thing, Arcane has the same thing given its elements of cosmic (body) horror, but guess that’s okay bc not red. So not an injury and not suffering… Alright then
Even canonical genes are…quastionable gembound comes to mind as it is canonically an illness brought forth by a venomous snake. Shardflank? Pretty sure those are bonegrowths, gnarlhorns? Overgrown claws/teeth/beaks etc is generally something that affects the animal’s well being dramatically and can hurt them, are those gailers with their overgrown nails not in pain??? Can they still walk properly? Use their claws at all??
This “it’s okay if we do it” look isn’t the best ngl
If we do get a visual guide it might be a good idea if we are given examples made by the staff themselves or offered by volunteers, only downside would be folks who aren’t into gore might end up getting triggered by the examples
And agreed on the ice flight thing, Arcane has the same thing given its elements of cosmic (body) horror, but guess that’s okay bc not red. So not an injury and not suffering… Alright then
Even canonical genes are…quastionable gembound comes to mind as it is canonically an illness brought forth by a venomous snake. Shardflank? Pretty sure those are bonegrowths, gnarlhorns? Overgrown claws/teeth/beaks etc is generally something that affects the animal’s well being dramatically and can hurt them, are those gailers with their overgrown nails not in pain??? Can they still walk properly? Use their claws at all??
This “it’s okay if we do it” look isn’t the best ngl
Actually even guidli es do not guaranty of twice interpretation.
Let's look at another rule about shadows and contures.
Tutorial say do not change those lairs but we have alot of skins where they obviously corrected.
And those skins accepted and even become fest (I mean user could resend UM couple of time remaking things that dev's de and remake. But fest skin should have "acceptable" condition from first time. How they find this thin border outside of rules? (Maybe this is artists from FR artists team and they have insiders I formation. I do not know))
Accent: Optics
Ridgeback Female Only
Brightshine Jubilee 2018. (11/14) Designed by jorts.
Actually even guidli es do not guaranty of twice interpretation.
Let's look at another rule about shadows and contures.
Tutorial say do not change those lairs but we have alot of skins where they obviously corrected.
And those skins accepted and even become fest (I mean user could resend UM couple of time remaking things that dev's de and remake. But fest skin should have "acceptable" condition from first time. How they find this thin border outside of rules? (Maybe this is artists from FR artists team and they have insiders I formation. I do not know))
Accent: Optics
Ridgeback Female Only
Brightshine Jubilee 2018. (11/14) Designed by jorts.
Itemid #26926
Same can happened with "red and Gore" rules
Skin: Slight Firewing
Wildclaw Female Only
Skins are equippable items that can be worn like a coat of paint on top of the skin of your dragon. The look of the skin will not be passed onto offspring and may be unequipped at any time. (Designed by Alkhor.)
Skins are equippable items that can be worn like a coat of paint on top of the skin of your dragon. The look of the skin will not be passed onto offspring and may be unequipped at any time. (Designed by Alkhor.)
Accents are equippable items that can be worn like a coat of paint on top of the skin of your dragon. The look of the accent will not be passed onto offspring and may be unequipped at any time. (Designed by Alkhor.)
Accents are equippable items that can be worn like a coat of paint on top of the skin of your dragon. The look of the accent will not be passed onto offspring and may be unequipped at any time. (Designed by Alkhor.)
Accents are equippable items that can be worn like a coat of paint on top of the skin of your dragon. The look of the accent will not be passed onto offspring and may be unequipped at any time. (Designed by Alkhor.)
[quote name="SpookyPuptarts" date="2021-10-16 22:21:12" ]
On the subject of what constitutes suffering, while I'm looking at them,
[item=Frigid Fugitive Shackles][item=Icicle Chains]
So I guess ice flights allowed to torture people, and we're allowed to visually depict that (skin freezing hurts. I know. It gets cold where I live.)
I know that the frigid fugitive shackles are from before the rule rewrite, but the icicle chains aren't.
Looked into ice more and there's a winning skin from 2017 depicting what is implied to be purposefully inflicted frostbite (on the hands and feet, and considering the name.),
[skin=21136]
I guess this is kind of in line with "just because its not red doesn't mean its not suffering, so suffering is a weird guideline" argument.
[/quote]
I didn't even think about Ice & how some of their skins can be seen as suffering.
Best example I have from the Texas snowstorm, when I ended up getting frostbite.
I ended up with frostbite primarily in my hands and feet, It was painful to use my hands, which made eating/drinking hard. Walking felt like I walking on needles, and that's if I could even stand at all.
It's taken me months to get back to a somewhat normal life, as I've had to learn how to live with with the permanent nerve damage in my hands and feet. So from my standpoint I was very much (and am still) suffering from frostbite.
And that's not even all I experienced, but I'm going to go into to much detail, for obvious reasons.
So please, we need really specific clarification on what is defined as suffering & what isn't. Because right now the current clarification is just not working, as what counts as suffering to one person, may not be to another.
On the subject of what constitutes suffering, while I'm looking at them,
Frigid Fugitive Shackles
Apparel
The frozen-over limbs of this dragon are forever bound by frigid shackles.(Crystalline Gala 2014 Holiday Item.)
0
Icicle Chains
Apparel
Enchanted chains freeze and bind the wings of prisoners. Only those acknowledged by the frost may wear them unencumbered. (Crystalline Gala Item 2018.)
0
So I guess ice flights allowed to torture people, and we're allowed to visually depict that (skin freezing hurts. I know. It gets cold where I live.)
I know that the frigid fugitive shackles are from before the rule rewrite, but the icicle chains aren't.
Looked into ice more and there's a winning skin from 2017 depicting what is implied to be purposefully inflicted frostbite (on the hands and feet, and considering the name.),
Accent: Frostbitten Fugitive
Pearlcatcher Female Only
Crystalline Gala 2017. (5/14) Designed by houseteeth.
Itemid #21136
I guess this is kind of in line with "just because its not red doesn't mean its not suffering, so suffering is a weird guideline" argument.
I didn't even think about Ice & how some of their skins can be seen as suffering.
Best example I have from the Texas snowstorm, when I ended up getting frostbite.
I ended up with frostbite primarily in my hands and feet, It was painful to use my hands, which made eating/drinking hard. Walking felt like I walking on needles, and that's if I could even stand at all.
It's taken me months to get back to a somewhat normal life, as I've had to learn how to live with with the permanent nerve damage in my hands and feet. So from my standpoint I was very much (and am still) suffering from frostbite.
And that's not even all I experienced, but I'm going to go into to much detail, for obvious reasons.
So please, we need really specific clarification on what is defined as suffering & what isn't. Because right now the current clarification is just not working, as what counts as suffering to one person, may not be to another.
[quote name="Apocalyptichorse" date="2021-10-17 03:17:43" ]
If we do get a visual guide it might be a good idea if we are given examples made by the staff themselves or offered by volunteers, only downside would be folks who aren’t into gore might end up getting triggered by the examples
[/quote]
this is why i really think it'd be best if the guide was just written, but written very clearly. i don't know if it's the best idea to explicitly [i]show[/i] the kind of stuff that they aren't allowing. i think they could get the message across if they just communicated it very clearly in writing.
If we do get a visual guide it might be a good idea if we are given examples made by the staff themselves or offered by volunteers, only downside would be folks who aren’t into gore might end up getting triggered by the examples
this is why i really think it'd be best if the guide was just written, but written very clearly. i don't know if it's the best idea to explicitly show the kind of stuff that they aren't allowing. i think they could get the message across if they just communicated it very clearly in writing.
Just going back to the topic of "if it can be interpreted as gore it should be rejected" and how that relates to things already available on the site..
I know people have already mentioned blood the gene color and crackle, but another two examples I'd like to add is flecks for Veilspun, and the fact that these genes can be applied to [i]baby dragons[/i].
My derg Hysteria as an example:
[url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/69097367][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/350/690974/69097367_350.png[/img][/url]
Baby dragon. Covered in [i]what can be interpreted as blood[/i]. No skin, no apparel.
Interpretation is shaky ground. Just like how intent is. A person browsing can't immediately see what the artist intended, but every individual person's opinion of what's "too gory" is going to be different.
Now, I am 100% in the "give artists more leniency on body horror skins" camp, but I also think that should come with very clear guidelines, with examples that do not contradict currently available apparel, skins, and genes that can be interpreted as blood/bone/definition of suffering etc. Nothing over the top, no graphic, realistic, rated R gore. Just in line with what has already been accepted.
As they say, the internet is forever. If something is on the site - available to be bought, sold, or traded, and can be seen in someone's lair, then it's a part of the website's image. It's a part of what has been deemed acceptable.
...Unless they want to go back and delete skins/apparel/genes that can be "interpreted" as suffering (but please don't actually I love my bloody bandages so much haha)
Just going back to the topic of "if it can be interpreted as gore it should be rejected" and how that relates to things already available on the site..
I know people have already mentioned blood the gene color and crackle, but another two examples I'd like to add is flecks for Veilspun, and the fact that these genes can be applied to baby dragons.
My derg Hysteria as an example:
Baby dragon. Covered in what can be interpreted as blood. No skin, no apparel.
Interpretation is shaky ground. Just like how intent is. A person browsing can't immediately see what the artist intended, but every individual person's opinion of what's "too gory" is going to be different.
Now, I am 100% in the "give artists more leniency on body horror skins" camp, but I also think that should come with very clear guidelines, with examples that do not contradict currently available apparel, skins, and genes that can be interpreted as blood/bone/definition of suffering etc. Nothing over the top, no graphic, realistic, rated R gore. Just in line with what has already been accepted.
As they say, the internet is forever. If something is on the site - available to be bought, sold, or traded, and can be seen in someone's lair, then it's a part of the website's image. It's a part of what has been deemed acceptable.
...Unless they want to go back and delete skins/apparel/genes that can be "interpreted" as suffering (but please don't actually I love my bloody bandages so much haha)
Personally I feel the crux of the issue is that FR created a flight whose basic philosophy is built on suffering, and the conquest over said suffering, and is only getting gunshy about the display - no, the possible interpretation - of a very narrow form of suffering.
I would rather be stabbed than suffer from a consumptive skin condition that caused me to erupt in massive green boils. I would rather be stabbed than get frostbite. I would rather be stabbed than possessed by an evil spirit that enslaved me to do its bidding. I would rather be stabbed than locked up in chains forever. I would rather be stabbed than be rotting alive to the point I've got mushrooms growing out of my skin.
Fantasy suffering is still suffering. If it's suffering of the animal that is offensive, moderator decisions should reflect that. But it sounds more to me like the actual problem is perception of impropriety as determined by the parents of underage users, who might pass on buying their kids gems if they see a bloody mess of a dragon. That's why written lore is less heavily scrutinized - mom isn't reading your lore chapters or item descriptions.
I've got no skin in the game (get it), I don't make or buy UMAs and I am a pretty passive user who doesn't usually even look at contest skins before they've been chosen. I do think there are ways you can moderate gore fairly, and I feel like those methods would allow 90% of the rejected skins and accents people have complained about to go up without any issues. How red something is really shouldn't be a criterion.
Personally I feel the crux of the issue is that FR created a flight whose basic philosophy is built on suffering, and the conquest over said suffering, and is only getting gunshy about the display - no, the possible interpretation - of a very narrow form of suffering.
I would rather be stabbed than suffer from a consumptive skin condition that caused me to erupt in massive green boils. I would rather be stabbed than get frostbite. I would rather be stabbed than possessed by an evil spirit that enslaved me to do its bidding. I would rather be stabbed than locked up in chains forever. I would rather be stabbed than be rotting alive to the point I've got mushrooms growing out of my skin.
Fantasy suffering is still suffering. If it's suffering of the animal that is offensive, moderator decisions should reflect that. But it sounds more to me like the actual problem is perception of impropriety as determined by the parents of underage users, who might pass on buying their kids gems if they see a bloody mess of a dragon. That's why written lore is less heavily scrutinized - mom isn't reading your lore chapters or item descriptions.
I've got no skin in the game (get it), I don't make or buy UMAs and I am a pretty passive user who doesn't usually even look at contest skins before they've been chosen. I do think there are ways you can moderate gore fairly, and I feel like those methods would allow 90% of the rejected skins and accents people have complained about to go up without any issues. How red something is really shouldn't be a criterion.
_______________
Wondering if the restrictions are as they are because of hosting or payment providers. Like restrictions on abuse against animals or humans probably don't consider fantasy violence. But there's loads of media that's worse so ?????? I'm just so curious why they are so stringent on user skins when we got so many examples of site-made stuff here.
Wondering if the restrictions are as they are because of hosting or payment providers. Like restrictions on abuse against animals or humans probably don't consider fantasy violence. But there's loads of media that's worse so ?????? I'm just so curious why they are so stringent on user skins when we got so many examples of site-made stuff here.
