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TOPIC | Cut skin/accent makers slack.
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I feel like even if we have visual guide like that one linked from artfight, it will help just a little. because here are examples showing how it varies on interpretation. basicly skin makers, how about we don't use red to be safe lol

tho ah, better to try to have visual and detailed guide than nothing
I feel like even if we have visual guide like that one linked from artfight, it will help just a little. because here are examples showing how it varies on interpretation. basicly skin makers, how about we don't use red to be safe lol

tho ah, better to try to have visual and detailed guide than nothing
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[quote]because here are examples showing how it varies on interpretation.[/quote] I agree. If anything, the last few pages of this thread have proven that things like suffering, scars, zombie gore, and the color red vary wildly in how users can interpret what is acceptable and what isn't. I'll further emphasize the benefit of a visual guide. Not only so skin makers know where the boundaries fall, but also for the staff who vets the skins. It could be like a check list or something. "Okay, this skin is not bleeding from the mouth. There are no visible internal organs of any color. Exposed muscles only take up 3% of the overall dragon art. It passes." Rather than the skin mod going "that's a lot of red, and I just saw The Purge, so horror is on my mind and I'm going to play it safe and reject this subconsciously" which is possibly why there have been inconsistent skin rulings as there's multiple skin mods who may be more or less sensitive to blood, gore, and scars on any given day. Also going to emphasize the benefit of tags and a blocking system of some type so the staff don't have to feel like they have to be overly cautious because then players can take some of the responsibility into their own hands. As people have mentioned, it could have blanket blocking (all things with certain tags, such as "gore" or "arachnophobia"), blacklisting (blocking certain skins by ID number for whatever reason), and it could even have whitelisting (enabling certain skins by ID number despite them being tagged a certain way because they don't hit that particular user as hard, for example, a user who can't handle undead zombie flesh but has no problem with skeletons).
Quote:
because here are examples showing how it varies on interpretation.

I agree. If anything, the last few pages of this thread have proven that things like suffering, scars, zombie gore, and the color red vary wildly in how users can interpret what is acceptable and what isn't.

I'll further emphasize the benefit of a visual guide. Not only so skin makers know where the boundaries fall, but also for the staff who vets the skins. It could be like a check list or something. "Okay, this skin is not bleeding from the mouth. There are no visible internal organs of any color. Exposed muscles only take up 3% of the overall dragon art. It passes." Rather than the skin mod going "that's a lot of red, and I just saw The Purge, so horror is on my mind and I'm going to play it safe and reject this subconsciously" which is possibly why there have been inconsistent skin rulings as there's multiple skin mods who may be more or less sensitive to blood, gore, and scars on any given day.

Also going to emphasize the benefit of tags and a blocking system of some type so the staff don't have to feel like they have to be overly cautious because then players can take some of the responsibility into their own hands. As people have mentioned, it could have blanket blocking (all things with certain tags, such as "gore" or "arachnophobia"), blacklisting (blocking certain skins by ID number for whatever reason), and it could even have whitelisting (enabling certain skins by ID number despite them being tagged a certain way because they don't hit that particular user as hard, for example, a user who can't handle undead zombie flesh but has no problem with skeletons).
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If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
Variation with premoderation (before artist spend gems for blueprint and time and work to finish skin)
Sounds reasonable with so unclear but touhgt rules.
If dev's use some program to precheck art (for 30% cover, for redish colors ect) it must become public to allow at least artists check there work to be informed at least about some criteria they need remake
Variation with premoderation (before artist spend gems for blueprint and time and work to finish skin)
Sounds reasonable with so unclear but touhgt rules.
If dev's use some program to precheck art (for 30% cover, for redish colors ect) it must become public to allow at least artists check there work to be informed at least about some criteria they need remake

preorder list

Buy

Buy

Buy

Buy
I don't think premoderation is a good idea. Requiring the purchase of blueprints upfront is likely in place to prevent users submitting junk skins/accents. THe mods can only go through so many skins in a day.That said, it's still a system that sucks for the user.

I'd like to see the whole thing revamped entirely, possibly doing away with blueprints altogether. Users would pay a flat gem deposit for each skin to go through moderation. If the skin is approved, the deposit goes towards getting however many skins they want. They can also have time between approval and getting the skins in order to crowdfund, so buyers know they are getting what they pay for. If the skin is not approved, the user gets the gem deposit back. This should also all be lumped into a system that automatically approves reprints.

This might make things tougher on users who use the AH to get blueprints for treasure but I feel the UMA market is very gem-based anyway.
I don't think premoderation is a good idea. Requiring the purchase of blueprints upfront is likely in place to prevent users submitting junk skins/accents. THe mods can only go through so many skins in a day.That said, it's still a system that sucks for the user.

I'd like to see the whole thing revamped entirely, possibly doing away with blueprints altogether. Users would pay a flat gem deposit for each skin to go through moderation. If the skin is approved, the deposit goes towards getting however many skins they want. They can also have time between approval and getting the skins in order to crowdfund, so buyers know they are getting what they pay for. If the skin is not approved, the user gets the gem deposit back. This should also all be lumped into a system that automatically approves reprints.

This might make things tougher on users who use the AH to get blueprints for treasure but I feel the UMA market is very gem-based anyway.
[quote name="Bowno" date="2021-10-14 14:11:01" ] As I can see things are kinda little off topic.. I just wanted to post this to kinda bring things back to the issue at hand. PLEASE NOTE: A LOT OF THE SKINS/ACCENTS THAT WERE DENIED FOR 'GORE' THAT WERE EXTREMELY RELEVANT TO THIS DISCUSSION HAVE HAD ALL TRACES OF THE IMAGE/POST REMOVED ASIDE FROM STAFF REPLYING TO THE POSTER, AS THE PEOPLE IN THESE CASES HAVE BECOME SO FED UP WITH IT AND JUST LEFT ALL TOGETHER. Here are some examples of rejections (Sadly, not all were accessible) that are things that really dont make a whole lot of sense, especially considering OTHERS that were ACCEPTED at the SAME TIME as the rejected ones. IF ANY OF THESE ARE YOURS AND YOU WANT THEM REMOVED FROM THIS POST, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. [img]https://i.gyazo.com/9c8654011ba6cbca31e68e9fd2e42d2b.png[/img] [img]https://i.gyazo.com/68721ae27ad77825ea4528f6bcabb2c0.png[/img] [img]https://i.gyazo.com/ef259aa2786c7216b6f8b41bc18373d0.png[/img]Because of HEALED Hand Scars that Staff didn't like because it implied self harm? [img]https://i.gyazo.com/8b7dff4f85856767838fb094ce43427e.png[/img] Mouth 'too red'. [img]https://i.gyazo.com/f1ede6c774c97f14e4861dc917f653d4.png[/img] Staff circled the problem areas because shading looked like blood???? [img]https://i.gyazo.com/22963b39d07e747e9f4fb6f890dab189.png[/img] Skin based off of burning coal and embers. [img]https://i.gyazo.com/d0a05113dfad1062628f90c3ad1b8bd5.png[/img] Red veins look too much like gore? [img]https://i.gyazo.com/246ead981f33da36b6eb3b29b7326ea9.png[/img] Green was accepted. There were many others where it was just like, a plant based skin with roots and limbs, but there were red lines from some of the roots (as some trees do have red limbs and roots) which got the whole design denied. In these cases, I can not find the example images any longer. Also some instances (again, example images are no longer working on the thread) where the skin/accent creators are flat out ignored. No reply to them whatsoever, even upon bringing the issue up again. Again, I am sad that a lot of the images of rejected skins/accents that are what this thread are about are gone, as they were perfect examples.. But at the very least we do have these... And I'm sure there are even more of them! These are the remaining few that make things so confusing. HEALED scars? A tiny bit of dripping blood? Something that looks like what we got in the Veins Gene later on in time, but its red so its bad? A very plague themed skin with all the gross pus and stuff, but TINY areas that show a bit more red due to shading and shine effects making it rejected? COALS AND EMBERS now gore? A mouth that is too red? Just LINES that are red, even if they arent actually cuts or blood or anything.. They just happen to be red? This is where the problem lies and it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. This is why I've been confused and I really wish I had some of the other examples, as they were just mind boggling. [/quote] I might be a bit of an outlier in this opinion, but I actually do understand why several of thosse skins were rejected. Skin 1: Dragon is clearly bleeding from mouth and nose and on first glancethe red around the eye was blood as well. Second to Last: honestly, for me those veins very much look like blood trails from open wounds. Same for the last: to me, the red accents actually do look a lot like blood, bloody veins or open wounds. I think a large part of the problem is that images can be interpreted very differently and also very differently from what the artist intended. And (at least in my opinion), when it comes to things like rules about gore, possible interpretations (be they wanted or not) have to be taken into account. Because when I see a picture of a dragon in a dragon share thread or at the main page, I won't have the information what the artist intended with the skin, only my own interpretation.
Bowno wrote on 2021-10-14 14:11:01:
As I can see things are kinda little off topic.. I just wanted to post this to kinda bring things back to the issue at hand.

PLEASE NOTE:
A LOT OF THE SKINS/ACCENTS THAT WERE DENIED FOR 'GORE' THAT WERE EXTREMELY RELEVANT TO THIS DISCUSSION HAVE HAD ALL TRACES OF THE IMAGE/POST REMOVED ASIDE FROM STAFF REPLYING TO THE POSTER, AS THE PEOPLE IN THESE CASES HAVE BECOME SO FED UP WITH IT AND JUST LEFT ALL TOGETHER.

Here are some examples of rejections (Sadly, not all were accessible) that are things that really dont make a whole lot of sense, especially considering OTHERS that were ACCEPTED at the SAME TIME as the rejected ones.
IF ANY OF THESE ARE YOURS AND YOU WANT THEM REMOVED FROM THIS POST, PLEASE LET ME KNOW.

9c8654011ba6cbca31e68e9fd2e42d2b.png
68721ae27ad77825ea4528f6bcabb2c0.png ef259aa2786c7216b6f8b41bc18373d0.pngBecause of HEALED Hand Scars that Staff didn't like because it implied self harm?
8b7dff4f85856767838fb094ce43427e.png Mouth 'too red'.
f1ede6c774c97f14e4861dc917f653d4.png Staff circled the problem areas because shading looked like blood????
22963b39d07e747e9f4fb6f890dab189.png Skin based off of burning coal and embers.
d0a05113dfad1062628f90c3ad1b8bd5.png Red veins look too much like gore?
246ead981f33da36b6eb3b29b7326ea9.png Green was accepted.

There were many others where it was just like, a plant based skin with roots and limbs, but there were red lines from some of the roots (as some trees do have red limbs and roots) which got the whole design denied. In these cases, I can not find the example images any longer.
Also some instances (again, example images are no longer working on the thread) where the skin/accent creators are flat out ignored. No reply to them whatsoever, even upon bringing the issue up again.

Again, I am sad that a lot of the images of rejected skins/accents that are what this thread are about are gone, as they were perfect examples.. But at the very least we do have these... And I'm sure there are even more of them!
These are the remaining few that make things so confusing.
HEALED scars?
A tiny bit of dripping blood?
Something that looks like what we got in the Veins Gene later on in time, but its red so its bad?
A very plague themed skin with all the gross pus and stuff, but TINY areas that show a bit more red due to shading and shine effects making it rejected?
COALS AND EMBERS now gore?
A mouth that is too red?
Just LINES that are red, even if they arent actually cuts or blood or anything.. They just happen to be red?

This is where the problem lies and it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
This is why I've been confused and I really wish I had some of the other examples, as they were just mind boggling.

I might be a bit of an outlier in this opinion, but I actually do understand why several of thosse skins were rejected.

Skin 1: Dragon is clearly bleeding from mouth and nose and on first glancethe red around the eye was blood as well.

Second to Last: honestly, for me those veins very much look like blood trails from open wounds.

Same for the last: to me, the red accents actually do look a lot like blood, bloody veins or open wounds.

I think a large part of the problem is that images can be interpreted very differently and also very differently from what the artist intended. And (at least in my opinion), when it comes to things like rules about gore, possible interpretations (be they wanted or not) have to be taken into account. Because when I see a picture of a dragon in a dragon share thread or at the main page, I won't have the information what the artist intended with the skin, only my own interpretation.
4OQcs93.png
[quote name="Crowbar" date="2021-10-16 05:22:15" ] I don't think premoderation is a good idea. Requiring the purchase of blueprints upfront is likely in place to prevent users submitting junk skins/accents. THe mods can only go through so many skins in a day.That said, it's still a system that sucks for the user. I'd like to see the whole thing revamped entirely, possibly doing away with blueprints altogether. Users would pay a flat gem deposit for each skin to go through moderation. If the skin is approved, the deposit goes towards getting however many skins they want. They can also have time between approval and getting the skins in order to crowdfund, so buyers know they are getting what they pay for. If the skin is not approved, the user gets the gem deposit back. This should also all be lumped into a system that automatically approves reprints. [/quote] This sounds like a better system than what I proposed! I was also hesitant on pre-moderation due to the amount of trolls it could lead to :p
Crowbar wrote on 2021-10-16 05:22:15:
I don't think premoderation is a good idea. Requiring the purchase of blueprints upfront is likely in place to prevent users submitting junk skins/accents. THe mods can only go through so many skins in a day.That said, it's still a system that sucks for the user.

I'd like to see the whole thing revamped entirely, possibly doing away with blueprints altogether. Users would pay a flat gem deposit for each skin to go through moderation. If the skin is approved, the deposit goes towards getting however many skins they want. They can also have time between approval and getting the skins in order to crowdfund, so buyers know they are getting what they pay for. If the skin is not approved, the user gets the gem deposit back. This should also all be lumped into a system that automatically approves reprints.

This sounds like a better system than what I proposed! I was also hesitant on pre-moderation due to the amount of trolls it could lead to :p
[quote name="Crowbar" date="2021-10-16 05:22:15" ] I don't think premoderation is a good idea. Requiring the purchase of blueprints upfront is likely in place to prevent users submitting junk skins/accents. THe mods can only go through so many skins in a day.That said, it's still a system that sucks for the user. I'd like to see the whole thing revamped entirely, possibly doing away with blueprints altogether. Users would pay a flat gem deposit for each skin to go through moderation. If the skin is approved, the deposit goes towards getting however many skins they want. They can also have time between approval and getting the skins in order to crowdfund, so buyers know they are getting what they pay for. If the skin is not approved, the user gets the gem deposit back. This should also all be lumped into a system that automatically approves reprints. This might make things tougher on users who use the AH to get blueprints for treasure but I feel the UMA market is very gem-based anyway. [/quote] To be honest, I think this would work better than the current system, and truthfully, combine this with another suggestion about reorders. Basically, do away with skins, and as said, have a flat fee to get one copy of the skin (which would probably be based upon the price per skin from a 10pack of blueprints). However, with a new system for reorders, make it so that the user can then put the skin into their 'shop' for a fee. As an example: to get a skin on site it costs 200 gems. (it isn't guaranteed, it still needs approval). Once the skin is an item, the user can then sell that skin/use it theirselves, what ever they want. However, there is a 'shop' where they can have the ability to add their skin, so others can order it on their own, no need for the owner of said skin go through the reprint process. It would cost 200 gems (to the site) and whatever the owner of the skin wants to charge. So, if they charge 100 gems, then a user would pay 300 gems to get a copy of that skin. 100 would go to the skin submitter, 200 vanishes to the site. Blueprints could be modified to work on this scheme as well, for contest winners (those skins would still work like they do now). A blue print would be a 'free' skin submission. This way players wouldn't have to crowdfund to get a skin done, nor would they have to worry about a skin being denied. The skin fee would, hopefully, be cheap enough that most players would be able to 'fund' it themselves, and they would get the fee back if the skin is rejected (so they don't lose anything for rejection) Players who are interested in the skin would know immediately that the money they put towards said skin would be 'rewarded' because that skin would already be an item on site. There would also no longer need to be an 'approval' process for reprints, because the skin would never go out of 'print' (the skin owner could perhaps set limits on how many skins could be bought at a time, so say they want a limited run of 10, they put '10' in a box and once 10 skins are sold, the skin can no longer be bought. BUT, the owner could put 10 in that box and 10 more skins could be sold.) HOwever, this isn't really on-topic for this thread, and wouldn't really help much with the approval process, except maybe to get rid of reprint approvals. I do think a textual and visual guide on what is allowed, specifically, would be very helpful. Outline exactly what is meant by each 'rule'.
Crowbar wrote on 2021-10-16 05:22:15:
I don't think premoderation is a good idea. Requiring the purchase of blueprints upfront is likely in place to prevent users submitting junk skins/accents. THe mods can only go through so many skins in a day.That said, it's still a system that sucks for the user.

I'd like to see the whole thing revamped entirely, possibly doing away with blueprints altogether. Users would pay a flat gem deposit for each skin to go through moderation. If the skin is approved, the deposit goes towards getting however many skins they want. They can also have time between approval and getting the skins in order to crowdfund, so buyers know they are getting what they pay for. If the skin is not approved, the user gets the gem deposit back. This should also all be lumped into a system that automatically approves reprints.

This might make things tougher on users who use the AH to get blueprints for treasure but I feel the UMA market is very gem-based anyway.
To be honest, I think this would work better than the current system, and truthfully, combine this with another suggestion about reorders.

Basically, do away with skins, and as said, have a flat fee to get one copy of the skin (which would probably be based upon the price per skin from a 10pack of blueprints).

However, with a new system for reorders, make it so that the user can then put the skin into their 'shop' for a fee.

As an example: to get a skin on site it costs 200 gems. (it isn't guaranteed, it still needs approval). Once the skin is an item, the user can then sell that skin/use it theirselves, what ever they want. However, there is a 'shop' where they can have the ability to add their skin, so others can order it on their own, no need for the owner of said skin go through the reprint process. It would cost 200 gems (to the site) and whatever the owner of the skin wants to charge. So, if they charge 100 gems, then a user would pay 300 gems to get a copy of that skin. 100 would go to the skin submitter, 200 vanishes to the site.

Blueprints could be modified to work on this scheme as well, for contest winners (those skins would still work like they do now). A blue print would be a 'free' skin submission.


This way players wouldn't have to crowdfund to get a skin done, nor would they have to worry about a skin being denied. The skin fee would, hopefully, be cheap enough that most players would be able to 'fund' it themselves, and they would get the fee back if the skin is rejected (so they don't lose anything for rejection)

Players who are interested in the skin would know immediately that the money they put towards said skin would be 'rewarded' because that skin would already be an item on site.

There would also no longer need to be an 'approval' process for reprints, because the skin would never go out of 'print' (the skin owner could perhaps set limits on how many skins could be bought at a time, so say they want a limited run of 10, they put '10' in a box and once 10 skins are sold, the skin can no longer be bought. BUT, the owner could put 10 in that box and 10 more skins could be sold.)


HOwever, this isn't really on-topic for this thread, and wouldn't really help much with the approval process, except maybe to get rid of reprint approvals.

I do think a textual and visual guide on what is allowed, specifically, would be very helpful. Outline exactly what is meant by each 'rule'.

#UnnamedIsValid
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Breed Characteristic Apparel!

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Change Unnamed in YOUR dragon's profile!
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Here are some Site Skins On my dragon: [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/72283718][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/350/722838/72283718_350.png[/img][/url] One like them without a skin: [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/72283719][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/350/722838/72283719_350.png[/img][/url] Another dragon of mine with a site skin: [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/14601687][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/350/146017/14601687_350.png[/img][/url] [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/71870195][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/350/718702/71870195_350.png[/img][/url] Other skins (site skins) abound. Muscles for one (there are a multitude of others). Then, the genes that create the same effects. Dark red crackle over coral ripple & current genes, for instance. So, the reasonable thing is 1) a mod for skins who can handle gore, etc. Because people will submit items that test any limits. And, beyond that, a visual guide. Finally, ability to apply filters, so players can opt in or out of viewing anything that fits into gore or body distortions (multi eyes, limbs, etc), and so on. But, the denials do not match up with what is already on this website.
Here are some Site Skins

On my dragon:
72283718_350.png
One like them without a skin:
72283719_350.png
Another dragon of mine with a site skin:
14601687_350.png
71870195_350.png


Other skins (site skins) abound. Muscles for one (there are a multitude of others). Then, the genes that create the same effects.

Dark red crackle over coral ripple & current genes, for instance.

So, the reasonable thing is 1) a mod for skins who can handle gore, etc. Because people will submit items that test any limits. And, beyond that, a visual guide. Finally, ability to apply filters, so players can opt in or out of viewing anything that fits into gore or body distortions (multi eyes, limbs, etc), and so on.

But, the denials do not match up with what is already on this website.
EggForumNebula2150hightiny.png
These are site colors & genes, the artists are responsible for the way the upper wings appear, and the bloody bandages are available for purchase (site items). [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/71483564][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/350/714836/71483564_350.png[/img][/url]
These are site colors & genes, the artists are responsible for the way the upper wings appear, and the bloody bandages are available for purchase (site items).

71483564_350.png
EggForumNebula2150hightiny.png
If you're gonna talk about site genes, I always imaged red crackles, like garnet or carmine, make good 'blood' [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=2&bodygene=9&breed=10&element=10&eyetype=1&gender=0&tert=161&tertgene=6&winggene=10&wings=2&auth=ea86f2873ce1782a06c60d9cfa5ae212c139b941&dummyext=prev.png[/img] Bloody mouth, hands, and claws. Not exactly a splatter pattern- more liked dried/drying blood.
If you're gonna talk about site genes, I always imaged red crackles, like garnet or carmine, make good 'blood'
dragon?age=1&body=2&bodygene=9&breed=10&element=10&eyetype=1&gender=0&tert=161&tertgene=6&winggene=10&wings=2&auth=ea86f2873ce1782a06c60d9cfa5ae212c139b941&dummyext=prev.png
Bloody mouth, hands, and claws. Not exactly a splatter pattern- more liked dried/drying blood.
(This needs to be updated but I am lazy)
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