Skins and Accents

@clockworkMoose

those are some great reference images! Thank you!

I legit read PTSD.

But, still yay!

[quote name="clockworkMoose" date="2019-06-11 11:16:47" ] [quote name="DireRaven" date="2019-06-11 05:02:38" ] Is there a reference image of how a full body skin looks with one of the line breaking ancient genes? [/quote] [img]https://i.imgur.com/DjHIaaR.png[/img] [img]https://i.imgur.com/XENmemV.png[/img] So with the rules of "no going outside the ORIGINAL lineart", you can make a skin for a wintercoat or gnarly Gao, but you won't ever be allowed to color those little grey bits, and the original color WILL show through there. Alternatively, you could make a normal skin using all the normal lineart, and then put it on top of a shard gao and suddenly he's got a case of spikey butt. [img]https://i.imgur.com/BSpg6JJ.png[/img] [/quote] Soooo... as I understand it: We either have to make & get different versions of an accent that specifically cater to a specific line-breaking tertiary... or put on whatever normal accent you want and have your dragon look terrible and dumb because you have random bits sticking out. :/ What's even the point of having line-breaking terts is you can't line-break with them? I don't mind not having apparel for Ancient Breeds but this is uh. Kinda upsetting.

[quote name="argylion" date="2019-06-11 19:59:13" ] [quote name="clockworkMoose" date="2019-06-11 11:16:47" ] [quote name="DireRaven" date="2019-06-11 05:02:38" ] Is there a reference image of how a full body skin looks with one of the line breaking ancient genes? [/quote] [img]https://i.imgur.com/DjHIaaR.png[/img] [img]https://i.imgur.com/XENmemV.png[/img] So with the rules of "no going outside the ORIGINAL lineart", you can make a skin for a wintercoat or gnarly Gao, but you won't ever be allowed to color those little grey bits, and the original color WILL show through there. Alternatively, you could make a normal skin using all the normal lineart, and then put it on top of a shard gao and suddenly he's got a case of spikey butt. [img]https://i.imgur.com/BSpg6JJ.png[/img] [/quote] Soooo... as I understand it: We either have to make & get different versions of an accent that specifically cater to a specific line-breaking tertiary... or put on whatever normal accent you want and have your dragon look terrible and dumb because you have random bits sticking out. :/ What's even the point of having line-breaking terts is you can't line-break with them? I don't mind not having apparel for Ancient Breeds but this is uh. Kinda upsetting. [/quote] This is what I’m thinking. If they break the rule for linebreaking terts, I hope they can make it so we can have the same line breaking in skins and accents. I understand there’s probably a lot going on back end with the new breed, but I hope it’s a future update [emoji=heart size=1]

reading over this is honestly... super disappointing. one of the things i was most looking forward to with more extensive silhouette-breaking terts was skins & accents that could work with them. so... no gaoler with wintercoat, shardflank, scorpion, or gnarlhorns will ever be able to wear a full skin without looking foolish. what? how does that make sense?

i understand the silhouette-breaking rule for modern dragons, because of apparel. most terts on modern breeds only break the silhouette very slightly, so it isn't really an issue for the most part. but for ancient breeds... i really was assuming all along that a lack of apparel enabling wild terts out of the usual lines, would mean that accents and skins could cover them as well, because honestly... that makes sense? if skins and accents are the only things we can use to decorate these dragons... this is just disappointing. it really limits what you can do with a gaoler that has any silhouette-breaking terts.

and not only this, but people can't make skins & accents with the lineart-breaking terts in mind, either, because you can't use the lineart and shading of these terts for an accent. i.e. if someone wanted to color on the parts of gnarlhorns that're WITHIN the silhouette, they can't do that. because they'd have to keep the basic gaoler lines and shading, and it would look ridiculous to try and do it anyway, having the basic body shading and lines overlaying the antlers.

and then, if people do all of this, and make skins & accents for line-in tert gaolers, if they want to make it accessible to those with other terts, they'd have to make one specifically catered to four other genes, meaning five total versions of the skin (and more when more terts are added for the breed). like, i've done that sort of thing for gembond, but that's... really the only one there is for modern breeds? so, it isn't a huge issue, and since even gembond isn't a huge physical variation, lots of accents (and basically all skins) work with it anyway.

if the staff is thinking it'd allow for skins & accents that add things unattached to the dragon (like, for example, balloons or birds in the background, or dirt beneath the dragon's feet) just... make a rule against that type of addition and reject submissions that try it?

i really wish an exception could be made for ancient breeds' skins and accents. it's really disheartening to see these limits carried over to the ancient breeds in a way that really seems counterproductive and doesn't make a ton of sense. if it's because of a copyright issue, i can understand, but i wish the exact issue with allowing this could be clearly laid out to us.

[quote name="nohsara" date="2019-06-11 12:28:21" ] @tvisland I am just trying to help. Look on the lower left, by the PC’s tail. The firefly is half-covered by the skin and half not covered (where it goes outside the silhouette). It’d be cool if I could see an example of one of these gembond accents, cuz I’m genuinely interested in the answers to how this all works since I make skins/accents myself Edit: also it may be possible old skins were accepted erroneously, as I’ve seen some older skins with very dark coloring for instance that would be against our understanding of the rules today [/quote] yes, obviously the firefly is not covered by the skin, because again, the skin was not designed to go over it. if the artist didn't color that part (which they didn't, because i'm 99% certain that skin you used in the example came out before firefly ever did), then it wouldn't show, regardless of whether it was possible or not. the skin i am referring to is the pearlbond accent for coatl females. if you overlay a silhouette over a coatl with gembond, you will see that in the bottom right corner, the gembond goes significantly outside the silhouette on one of the feet. it goes just barely outside of it in other places where you can only tell a tiny bit on the lineart, but it very noticeably goes visibly outside of the coatl's silhouette on that foot. the accent in question covers this. it's possible it was accepted erroneously, but it goes to show that it [i]is[/i] possible, so i believe having this restriction is pointless.

Honestly I'm with the people who are disappointed that you can't do skins that follow the lineart applied by line breaking tertiaries. It would be so cool to get to play around with those, and yeah it might not look good with dergs that don't have the tertiary gene that skin/accent was 'made' for, but putting the accent on such a dragon is really a personal choice that I don't see being any different from choosing to equip a (modern) dragon with pieces of apparel that don't work with each other.

[quote name="Sides" date="2019-06-12 04:58:38" ] Honestly I'm with the people who are disappointed that you can't do skins that follow the lineart applied by line breaking tertiaries. It would be so cool to get to play around with those, and yeah it might not look good with dergs that don't have the tertiary gene that skin/accent was 'made' for, but putting the accent on such a dragon is really a personal choice that I don't see being any different from choosing to equip a (modern) dragon with pieces of apparel that don't work with each other. [/quote] Same. I was so excited to make accents with bands and runes and etching on Gnarlhorns.

[quote name="tvisland" date="2019-06-11 23:14:35" ] [quote name="nohsara" date="2019-06-11 12:28:21" ] @tvisland I am just trying to help. Look on the lower left, by the PC’s tail. The firefly is half-covered by the skin and half not covered (where it goes outside the silhouette). It’d be cool if I could see an example of one of these gembond accents, cuz I’m genuinely interested in the answers to how this all works since I make skins/accents myself Edit: also it may be possible old skins were accepted erroneously, as I’ve seen some older skins with very dark coloring for instance that would be against our understanding of the rules today [/quote] yes, obviously the firefly is not covered by the skin, because again, the skin was not designed to go over it. if the artist didn't color that part (which they didn't, because i'm 99% certain that skin you used in the example came out before firefly ever did), then it wouldn't show, regardless of whether it was possible or not. the skin i am referring to is the pearlbond accent for coatl females. if you overlay a silhouette over a coatl with gembond, you will see that in the bottom right corner, the gembond goes significantly outside the silhouette on one of the feet. it goes just barely outside of it in other places where you can only tell a tiny bit on the lineart, but it very noticeably goes visibly outside of the coatl's silhouette on that foot. the accent in question covers this. it's possible it was accepted erroneously, but it goes to show that it [i]is[/i] possible, so i believe having this restriction is pointless. [/quote] Wait do you mean this skin? [img]https://i.ibb.co/ngDbY5F/Screenshot-20190612-095828-Samsung-Internet.jpg[/img] Cause it doesnt look like it breaks the lineart to me? I mean there like a pixel that's maybe outside of silhouette on the right foot?

[quote]the skin i am referring to is the pearlbond accent for coatl females. if you overlay a silhouette over a coatl with gembond, you will see that in the bottom right corner, the gembond goes significantly outside the silhouette on one of the feet. it goes just barely outside of it in other places where you can only tell a tiny bit on the lineart, but it very noticeably goes visibly outside of the coatl's silhouette on that foot. the accent in question covers this.[/quote] [img]https://media.giphy.com/media/QWoriEHIGIo1k1EWmR/giphy.gif[/img] I count about a dozen pixels where the accent has a bit of opacity outside the original lines on these feet, maybe 5 or 6 on the tail, and a few on the head, which is about how far gembond sticks outside the lines, and without zooming in, I wouldn't have been able to tell you that gembond actually broke the lines on the coatl at all. Because it's *pixels* difference. I count a few more than 2 dozen pixels in that gnarlhorn. I would assume this was a case of "staff didn't zoom in and squint at each individual pixel like moose did before approving that skin" instead of "this skin was allowed to break the lines" but who knows, @suburbansamurai, hey, when this skin was accepted, was that an intentional decision by staff to approve a line breaking accent thereby setting precedence for other accents to break lines? I'm not arguing against being allowed to break lines, especially on ancients here, but I would like to see an accent that was accepted that *very obviously* breaks the lines by, say, coloring the spines in or recolors one whole full firefly outside the lines as proof that other line breaking terts have been allowed instead of one skins with a couple of fuzzy pixels. :T The only downside I can see to allowing someone to make a skin with the gnarlhorn base is that if they stick it on a non-gnarlhorn, it would give the appearance of having that tert. ...Until you read the info box and realize it does not. And you can't sell dragons with accents, that gnarlhorn will never pass to hatchlings, and unless staff is planning on releasing a linebreaking tert that is super super gem expensive... sure?? go ahead and spend more gems on a single-dragon use accent instead of the actual gene???? I fail to see what is actually hurting the site here, except that when accepting the accents and making sure they don't break the lines, staff will have to check against the base image OR the line breaking tert images. I can see that getting complicated if someone tried to make an accent that gave a dragon wintercoat, gnarl, AND shards, but then... make the rule that an accent can only use ONE base dragon image. You get to pick one line breaking tert, and use that base as your skin. (It still might be possible to use a gnarlhorn base and carve out areas for the shards to show through, thereby mimicing having two terts, but some of my favorite accents are ones that add circuit to gembond, having areas carved out for the gems, or.... lmao oh man, remember when stained came out and people started making semi transparent skins so that you could put a nice little overlay on top of your other tert without having to waste an entire gene slot to turn your dragon slightly blue?) Using accents to mimic gene-features or add clothing and additions to dragons is already a thing. Why not on gaolers?