@catgame21234
You make a good point about isometric perspective, I hadn't considered that. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sunbeam Ruins was extremely vast and if generally the elemental regions varied in size. I will definitely ping you for part 2!
@Almedha
[quote name="Almedha" date="2023-02-05 17:25:41" ]
If dragons have compasses that align to the magnetic north pole, then the geographic north point of the globe could be to the north east of what compasses say is north from a certain vantage.
[/quote]
This was the only explanation I could think of at first, that the two conflicting descriptions of the Pillar's location are referring to two different "norths," magnetic north and geographic/true north. Perhaps Sornieth's magnetic north fluctuates in a similar way as it does on earth. The difference between magnetic north and true north is called magnetic declination, and on earth it's significant enough and changes frequently enough that orienteers need current maps that have the magnetic declination. We don't ever see the Arcanist pull out a compass, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Earthshaker placed the Pillar at the Geographic North Pole while the Arcanist used a compass like a nerd to identify the Pillar's direction relative to his Observatory.
[quote name="Almedha" date="2023-02-05 17:25:41" ]
I'm wondering if there is some reference from which you could be looking directly at the north pole, but still be looking "northeast."
[/quote]
This aligns with another potential explanation. Let's look at the whole quote:
[quote=Chapter 3: The Third Age]
He surveyed the horizon, trying to identify the highest point where he could perch, dismayed that he may have already reached it. From the observatory hill, the Arcanist could see a wealth of landscape spread out around him, though nothing appeared to surpass his vantage. [b]A mighty silhouette faded into view to the northeast.[/b] Through a thick brown haze, he could see a tall monument, stretching skyward. A pillar. From its zenith it might just be possible to observe the growing darkness.
[/quote]
He's looking from his Observatory which on the west side of the continent toward the Pillar (which isn't actually moving anywhere). I could perhaps understand baby boy Arcanist considering the entire continent when he identifies the direction of the Pillar. If he's on the west side of the continent, maybe the Pillar seems eastly? Because if he left his Observatory and followed the coastline passed the Pillar he would end up on the eastern side of the continent. Admittedly there are holes in this explanation because the continent isn't actually one unified sheet of land and the Arcanist has no way of knowing the geography of his planet yet.
@
catgame21234
You make a good point about isometric perspective, I hadn't considered that. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sunbeam Ruins was extremely vast and if generally the elemental regions varied in size. I will definitely ping you for part 2!
@
Almedha
Almedha wrote on 2023-02-05 17:25:41:
If dragons have compasses that align to the magnetic north pole, then the geographic north point of the globe could be to the north east of what compasses say is north from a certain vantage.
This was the only explanation I could think of at first, that the two conflicting descriptions of the Pillar's location are referring to two different "norths," magnetic north and geographic/true north. Perhaps Sornieth's magnetic north fluctuates in a similar way as it does on earth. The difference between magnetic north and true north is called magnetic declination, and on earth it's significant enough and changes frequently enough that orienteers need current maps that have the magnetic declination. We don't ever see the Arcanist pull out a compass, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Earthshaker placed the Pillar at the Geographic North Pole while the Arcanist used a compass like a nerd to identify the Pillar's direction relative to his Observatory.
Almedha wrote on 2023-02-05 17:25:41:
I'm wondering if there is some reference from which you could be looking directly at the north pole, but still be looking "northeast."
This aligns with another potential explanation. Let's look at the whole quote:
Chapter 3: The Third Age wrote:
He surveyed the horizon, trying to identify the highest point where he could perch, dismayed that he may have already reached it. From the observatory hill, the Arcanist could see a wealth of landscape spread out around him, though nothing appeared to surpass his vantage. A mighty silhouette faded into view to the northeast. Through a thick brown haze, he could see a tall monument, stretching skyward. A pillar. From its zenith it might just be possible to observe the growing darkness.
He's looking from his Observatory which on the west side of the continent toward the Pillar (which isn't actually moving anywhere). I could perhaps understand baby boy Arcanist considering the entire continent when he identifies the direction of the Pillar. If he's on the west side of the continent, maybe the Pillar seems eastly? Because if he left his Observatory and followed the coastline passed the Pillar he would end up on the eastern side of the continent. Admittedly there are holes in this explanation because the continent isn't actually one unified sheet of land and the Arcanist has no way of knowing the geography of his planet yet.
Regarding the Pillar of the World, it could be possible that the continent shifted or was moved by magical means.
Regarding the Pillar of the World, it could be possible that the continent shifted or was moved by magical means.
[quote name="dragononymous" date="2023-02-05 20:17:09" ]
@catgame21234
You make a good point about isometric perspective, I hadn't considered that. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sunbeam Ruins was extremely vast and if generally the elemental regions varied in size. I will definitely ping you for part 2!
[/quote]
it's always important to note that the map you are dealing with is a artistic repensatation. I would give far more weight to the diogram you were able to salvage and use the world map as a "estimate" of all the locations in the world.
dragononymous wrote on 2023-02-05 20:17:09:
@
catgame21234
You make a good point about isometric perspective, I hadn't considered that. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sunbeam Ruins was extremely vast and if generally the elemental regions varied in size. I will definitely ping you for part 2!
it's always important to note that the map you are dealing with is a artistic repensatation. I would give far more weight to the diogram you were able to salvage and use the world map as a "estimate" of all the locations in the world.
@Alize
A possibility I hadn't considered! This might be my favorite so far because I love the concept of continental drift. As far as I know the lengths of the different ages aren't confirmed (except for the current age), so it could have been thousands or even millions of years between the creation of the Pillar and the Arcanist's time. [url=https://flightrising.com/main.php?p=wiki&article=7]Chapter 2: The Second Age[/url] has more on what followed the creation of the Pillar:
[quote=Chapter 2: The Second Age]
[b]Life exploded[/b] from each primordial puddle, [b]evolving rapidly[/b] as it mingled with the remaining vestiges of magical essence. Creatures became more complex and diverse, leaving the familiarity of the oceans and streams to feel the sun and feed on the earth. The horrific battle scars of the past began to mend.
Young races founded their homes around the permanence of the monument, [b]societies[/b] developing with the Pillar's colossal silhouette as a backdrop for stories and scripture. Primitive religions regarded the structure as a ladder of ascension; a direct path to their deities.
[/quote]
And just for reference, this is the timeline of the evolution of life on earth (according to a quick google search):
[LIST]
[*]3.5-3.7 billion years ago - the first lifeforms (microscopic organisms) appear
[*]470 million years ago - the first plants moved from water to land
[*]423 million years ago - the first animals appeared on land
[*]390 million years ago - the first vertebrates left water for a terrestrial lifestyle
[/LIST]
So we have primordial aquatic lifeforms evolving to advanced societies with religion and politics, and by earth's timeline this would have taken hundreds of millions of years. However, magic apparently speeds up the process of evolution, so it could have been just a couple million years or even just hundreds of thousands of years. That's still a very, very long time, more than enough time for the continents to shift around a little. One could argue that the magic of the Pillar, especially with the Earthshaker at the base, wouldn't be moved by mere tectonic forces. My counterpoint would be that the Pillar with the Earthshaker as its base is susceptible to the slowly and steadily shifting nature of earth magic... much like the nature of Snapper migration. I'm sensing a theme here.
@
Alize
A possibility I hadn't considered! This might be my favorite so far because I love the concept of continental drift. As far as I know the lengths of the different ages aren't confirmed (except for the current age), so it could have been thousands or even millions of years between the creation of the Pillar and the Arcanist's time.
Chapter 2: The Second Age has more on what followed the creation of the Pillar:
Chapter 2: The Second Age wrote:
Life exploded from each primordial puddle, evolving rapidly as it mingled with the remaining vestiges of magical essence. Creatures became more complex and diverse, leaving the familiarity of the oceans and streams to feel the sun and feed on the earth. The horrific battle scars of the past began to mend.
Young races founded their homes around the permanence of the monument, societies developing with the Pillar's colossal silhouette as a backdrop for stories and scripture. Primitive religions regarded the structure as a ladder of ascension; a direct path to their deities.
And just for reference, this is the timeline of the evolution of life on earth (according to a quick google search):
- 3.5-3.7 billion years ago - the first lifeforms (microscopic organisms) appear
- 470 million years ago - the first plants moved from water to land
- 423 million years ago - the first animals appeared on land
- 390 million years ago - the first vertebrates left water for a terrestrial lifestyle
So we have primordial aquatic lifeforms evolving to advanced societies with religion and politics, and by earth's timeline this would have taken hundreds of millions of years. However, magic apparently speeds up the process of evolution, so it could have been just a couple million years or even just hundreds of thousands of years. That's still a very, very long time, more than enough time for the continents to shift around a little. One could argue that the magic of the Pillar, especially with the Earthshaker at the base, wouldn't be moved by mere tectonic forces. My counterpoint would be that the Pillar with the Earthshaker as its base is susceptible to the slowly and steadily shifting nature of earth magic... much like the nature of Snapper migration. I'm sensing a theme here.
This isn't related to the globe, but is related to Sornieth's cosmology - Does Sornieth have any moons? If so, how many? What is/are its/their name(s)? What do(es) it/they look like? How often do(es) they/it orbit(s) Sornieth? What kind of environment do(es) it/they have?
Also, how long is Sornieth's day? And how long is its year? I think we all assume it matches Earth's day and year, but you know what they say about assuming.... It could be that the magic of the internet makes the two timeframes sync up, but if you could somehow go to Sornieth in body, you'd find out that they're very different.
This isn't related to the globe, but is related to Sornieth's cosmology - Does Sornieth have any moons? If so, how many? What is/are its/their name(s)? What do(es) it/they look like? How often do(es) they/it orbit(s) Sornieth? What kind of environment do(es) it/they have?
Also, how long is Sornieth's day? And how long is its year? I think we all assume it matches Earth's day and year, but you know what they say about assuming.... It could be that the magic of the internet makes the two timeframes sync up, but if you could somehow go to Sornieth in body, you'd find out that they're very different.
@Moondragon007
Cosmology, love it! I have a few answers for you.
[b]Moons:[/b] Sornieth has at least two moons in orbit around it. They are unnamed as far as I can tell. [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/effort/1]Dustcarve Dig[/url]'s art shows two moons, one large purplish moon and a smaller bluish moon. I would love to learn more about their impact on the tides since it could be a lot more complicated to predict than the tides of our one-moon planet.
[quote=Aequorin]
Only the Arcanist and his most trusted astronomers know for sure how many celestial objects orbit Sornieth, but it does boast [b]one to two modestly-sized moons[/b] that are a welcome sight on dark nights.
[/quote]
[size=1]Source: ([url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/frd/1327998/6#message:~:text=Only%20the%20Arcanist%20and%20his%20most%20trusted%20astronomers%20know%20for%20sure%20how%20many%20celestial%20objects%20orbit%20Sornieth%2C%20but%20it%20does%20boast%20one%20to%20two%20modestly%2Dsized%20moons%20that%20are%20a%20welcome%20sight%20on%20dark%20nights.]Weekly Q&A[/url]).[/size]
[b]Sornieth itself:[/b]
[quote=Aequorin]
Sornieth has the [b]same rotational direction as Earth[/b], so sunrises happen in the east!
[/quote]
[size=1]Source: [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/frd/1327998/25#post_10417932:~:text=Sornieth%20has%20the%20same%20rotational%20direction%20as%20Earth%2C%20so%20sunrises%20happen%20in%20the%20east!]Weekly Q&A[/url][/size]
We also know that the planet has a tilted axis relative to the ecliptic plane:
[quote=Chapter 1: The First Age]
With one great heave of his front leg, the entire planet wobbled in its orbit, and to this day has remained at an irregular tilt.
[/quote]
[size=1]Source: [url=https://flightrising.com/main.php?p=wiki&article=6#:~:text=With%20one%20great%20heave%20of%20his%20front%20leg%2C%20the%20entire%20planet%20wobbled%20in%20its%20orbit%2C%20and%20to%20this%20day%20has%20remained%20at%20an%20irregular%20tilt.]Weekly Q&A[/url][/size]
I thought I read somewhere that it was a similar tilt to earth's axis but I can't find the source at the moment. We do know that it's enough of a tilt to cause seasonal changes!
[quote=Aequorin]
Sornieth indeed experiences its own winters, springs, summers, and autumns. The shift in temperature and weather patterns affects the elemental regions in different ways, some seeing more change than others. For instance, the width and strength of the Twisting Crescendo is much more fearsome in the late summer, when temperatures are warmer and more humid. The snowstorms of the Southern Icefield can send flurries as far north as the Starfall Isles. Overall, however, seasonal patterns are harder to predict or understand due to the constant imbalance in elemental magic ripping through the world.
[/quote]
[size=1]Source: [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/frd/1327998/6#8918396:~:text=Sornieth%20indeed%20experiences,through%20the%20world.]Weekly Q&A[/url][/size]
Size of Sornieth
[quote=Aequorin]
The size of [b]Sornieth is larger than Earth[/b] (roughly one and a half times the radius). It has [b]slightly less gravity[/b]. Whether that's due to its mass and the make-up of its core or the influence of magical fields is still a matter of draconic debate!
[/quote]
[size=1]Source: [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/ann/1242993/1#:~:text=The%20size%20of%20Sornieth%20is%20larger%20than%20Earth%20(roughly%20one%20and%20a%20half%20times%20the%20radius).%20It%20has%20slightly%20less%20gravity.%20Whether%20that%27s%20due%20to%20its%20mass%20and%20the%20make%2Dup%20of%20its%20core%20or%20the%20influence%20of%20magical%20fields%20is%20still%20a%20matter%20of%20draconic%20debate!]Words on the Wind[/url][/size]
This last quote will tie in to my calculations later!
@
Moondragon007
Cosmology, love it! I have a few answers for you.
Moons: Sornieth has at least two moons in orbit around it. They are unnamed as far as I can tell.
Dustcarve Dig's art shows two moons, one large purplish moon and a smaller bluish moon. I would love to learn more about their impact on the tides since it could be a lot more complicated to predict than the tides of our one-moon planet.
Aequorin wrote:
Only the Arcanist and his most trusted astronomers know for sure how many celestial objects orbit Sornieth, but it does boast one to two modestly-sized moons that are a welcome sight on dark nights.
Source: (Weekly Q&A).
Sornieth itself:
Aequorin wrote:
Sornieth has the same rotational direction as Earth, so sunrises happen in the east!
Source: Weekly Q&A
We also know that the planet has a tilted axis relative to the ecliptic plane:
Chapter 1: The First Age wrote:
With one great heave of his front leg, the entire planet wobbled in its orbit, and to this day has remained at an irregular tilt.
Source: Weekly Q&A
I thought I read somewhere that it was a similar tilt to earth's axis but I can't find the source at the moment. We do know that it's enough of a tilt to cause seasonal changes!
Aequorin wrote:
Sornieth indeed experiences its own winters, springs, summers, and autumns. The shift in temperature and weather patterns affects the elemental regions in different ways, some seeing more change than others. For instance, the width and strength of the Twisting Crescendo is much more fearsome in the late summer, when temperatures are warmer and more humid. The snowstorms of the Southern Icefield can send flurries as far north as the Starfall Isles. Overall, however, seasonal patterns are harder to predict or understand due to the constant imbalance in elemental magic ripping through the world.
Source: Weekly Q&A
Size of Sornieth
Aequorin wrote:
The size of Sornieth is larger than Earth (roughly one and a half times the radius). It has slightly less gravity. Whether that's due to its mass and the make-up of its core or the influence of magical fields is still a matter of draconic debate!
Source: Words on the Wind
This last quote will tie in to my calculations later!
HELLO. I actually made my own interpretation and have written an analysis a while ago but it's currently being rewritten as I've updated my knowledge.
I am so happy to see people discussing this, I've taken a look at those various maps when the scene came out and I immediately noticed both lore inconsistencies and logical inconsistencies so I was just like "nah" and immediately dropped it.
All in all, I basically realised that a hot and lush tropical rainforest so far up near the pole is impossible in such a climate, unless we're talking about like...Cretaceous temperature (and we aren't bc there's ice at the poles, or at least one of them). However, that would check out when it comes to the massive "fauna" that roam Sornieth.
Anyway, here's my map and how I arranged the continent (I switched Shadow and Nature's places), but don't pay too much attention to the climates as they need to be revised ever since I accounted for global oceanic circulation due to the rotation of the planet, as well as how hot and warm currents affect the climate of the land.
[img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/767993560985108486/1072284584265400400/map.png[/img]
I'm super fond of the "it's simplified and inaccurate" approach when it comes to the World Map because it leaves enough room for more plausible solutions while also staying lore-consistent. It would make sense that Earth's territory had shifted along with the rest of the continent, just like our continents are still drifting, so Earth went from being somewhere around the geographical North to approximately where Arizona is now. Or, if you'd like a much better example of a "once cold territory shifting and becoming hot and dry", let's take a look at Australia! It was once a part of Antarctica and it was basically at the South Pole, but then started drifting northwards, the warm oceanic currents keep it super warm while the atmospheric phenomena give it a dry desert climate throughout the majority of its territory, with a more temperate climate to the south and a tropical climate to the north.
So, with these currents in mind, I'll have to shift these climates around a bit.
HELLO. I actually made my own interpretation and have written an analysis a while ago but it's currently being rewritten as I've updated my knowledge.
I am so happy to see people discussing this, I've taken a look at those various maps when the scene came out and I immediately noticed both lore inconsistencies and logical inconsistencies so I was just like "nah" and immediately dropped it.
All in all, I basically realised that a hot and lush tropical rainforest so far up near the pole is impossible in such a climate, unless we're talking about like...Cretaceous temperature (and we aren't bc there's ice at the poles, or at least one of them). However, that would check out when it comes to the massive "fauna" that roam Sornieth.
Anyway, here's my map and how I arranged the continent (I switched Shadow and Nature's places), but don't pay too much attention to the climates as they need to be revised ever since I accounted for global oceanic circulation due to the rotation of the planet, as well as how hot and warm currents affect the climate of the land.
I'm super fond of the "it's simplified and inaccurate" approach when it comes to the World Map because it leaves enough room for more plausible solutions while also staying lore-consistent. It would make sense that Earth's territory had shifted along with the rest of the continent, just like our continents are still drifting, so Earth went from being somewhere around the geographical North to approximately where Arizona is now. Or, if you'd like a much better example of a "once cold territory shifting and becoming hot and dry", let's take a look at Australia! It was once a part of Antarctica and it was basically at the South Pole, but then started drifting northwards, the warm oceanic currents keep it super warm while the atmospheric phenomena give it a dry desert climate throughout the majority of its territory, with a more temperate climate to the south and a tropical climate to the north.
So, with these currents in mind, I'll have to shift these climates around a bit.
[quote name="Alize" date="2023-02-05 20:57:59" ]
Regarding the Pillar of the World, it could be possible that the continent shifted or was moved by magical means.
[/quote]
Or when it exploded chunks of it became new islands or parts of the contient. Maybe Nature flight has just been living on a giant chunk of the pillar this entire time, it just got covered in moss and dirt.
Or, perhaps, like with the unfinished glob theory, the map our cartographer is using (ima call them...Carl for simplicity) is outdated. Maybe a theoretical map from the dawn of dragons? Possibly even before that in the 2nd and 3rd ages. The landmass obviously existed at that time and magic must have too (or else we would have boring humans and not beastmen) but the elemental reigons of magic have not been fully formed, or have but were unstable or shifting, another reason why sunbeam ruins is SO DAMN BIG. (Though, tje map bias theory i think holds more water, esp. If we assume Carl is an Acolight). or maybe Carl is using a map made much more recently, but still outdated due to biases or landmasses and terrotories shifting overtime
Also, maybe its not the physical territory we see on the globe, but land claimed from rhe dominance war! Maybe Shadow lost a DOM battle against Light, part of the land was claimed, and now the globe is being painted and updated to reflect that change.
[s]super off topic but this thread reminds me of the 17th collosus thread its great keep it up yall if we solve the mystery of the map we will unlock the Tidelord bossfight[/s]
Alize wrote on 2023-02-05 20:57:59:
Regarding the Pillar of the World, it could be possible that the continent shifted or was moved by magical means.
Or when it exploded chunks of it became new islands or parts of the contient. Maybe Nature flight has just been living on a giant chunk of the pillar this entire time, it just got covered in moss and dirt.
Or, perhaps, like with the unfinished glob theory, the map our cartographer is using (ima call them...Carl for simplicity) is outdated. Maybe a theoretical map from the dawn of dragons? Possibly even before that in the 2nd and 3rd ages. The landmass obviously existed at that time and magic must have too (or else we would have boring humans and not beastmen) but the elemental reigons of magic have not been fully formed, or have but were unstable or shifting, another reason why sunbeam ruins is SO DAMN BIG. (Though, tje map bias theory i think holds more water, esp. If we assume Carl is an Acolight). or maybe Carl is using a map made much more recently, but still outdated due to biases or landmasses and terrotories shifting overtime
Also, maybe its not the physical territory we see on the globe, but land claimed from rhe dominance war! Maybe Shadow lost a DOM battle against Light, part of the land was claimed, and now the globe is being painted and updated to reflect that change.
super off topic but this thread reminds me of the 17th collosus thread its great keep it up yall if we solve the mystery of the map we will unlock the Tidelord bossfight
beware of spelling errord, my keyboard is broken and my hands finemotor skills are too.
please click on my creatures, thanks
Lab Profile
Oh! Has anyone considered the possibility of amother contienent? Or is Sornieth the only one?
Oh! Has anyone considered the possibility of amother contienent? Or is Sornieth the only one?
beware of spelling errord, my keyboard is broken and my hands finemotor skills are too.
please click on my creatures, thanks
Lab Profile
[quote name="Acetheaxolotl" date="2023-02-07 05:29:29" ]
Oh! Has anyone considered the possibility of amother contienent? Or is Sornieth the only one?
[/quote]
Now that's a cool idea. It would make sense that Sornieth would have more than one, it's bigger than Earth after all! In most of the early globe representations (like the familiar) the flights only seem to take up half of the continent. It's only in newer globes (such as the scene) that it stretches around both sides.
Acetheaxolotl wrote on 2023-02-07 05:29:29:
Oh! Has anyone considered the possibility of amother contienent? Or is Sornieth the only one?
Now that's a cool idea. It would make sense that Sornieth would have more than one, it's bigger than Earth after all! In most of the early globe representations (like the familiar) the flights only seem to take up half of the continent. It's only in newer globes (such as the scene) that it stretches around both sides.