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[quote name="BerryBagel" date="2022-12-23 18:29:51" ] [b]This brings me to my major stance right now, which is that I think the mafia conversion was a randomized action.[/b] Tangle said: [quote=TangleFire]Abilities that do not have a specific target was also not shown as a visit Abilities with self as a target also does not show as a visit Basically visits are only shown for abilities where you actively submit a target to me[/quote] So if mafia just unleashed an action that randomly converted a player, it wouldn't show up on the list. That seems like the most likely explanation for what happened, because all of the claimed N1 visit actions seem like they check out. [/quote] This is actually a [i]very[/i] good point. And would make the visit list just an enormous red herring, which sort of puts Hiii back into suspicion for me. If Hiii revealed that list, it could have been to get town to go in circles for a while. Which is. A trap that I have. Fallen into. If that is the case. I mean, it would assume a lot of forethought by maf. But hm. I know there are no flavor clues, but the maf conversion was worded like it was more of a 'this player stumbled into evil' vibe. I'm genuinely upset with myself that I didn't consider it. And. It just makes everything so complicated </3 yet again. I think whoever is mafia, it is safe to say they are playing well. Chaotic sort of threw the game... for reasons unknown. But whoever is left is almost certainly the most competent. And the tightness of our margin of error is. Screams. If it turns out that the visit list is useless for figuring out conversion, they have us. If we turn away from the visit list now and the conversion turns out to have been an active ability, they have us. From a pessimistic "they get some good kills in the night" stance, at least. Now I need to think about this a lot more. I'm glad I haven't put any vote down yet ahahhdjehfkjr

I guess also, working with the idea that there's probably 2 mafia left, I can speculate about who the converted mafia is, but who's currently most likely to have started as mafia?

• Hiii convincingly claimed as the only scribe. Most likely did not start the game as mafia
• Dandelion convincingly claimed as the only doctor. Most likely did not start the game as mafia
• Inu convincingly claimed as the only detective. Most likely did not start the game as mafia
• Nat demonstrated vigilante ability. Could not have started the game as mafia
• Ainsell demonstrated JOAT ability. Could not have started the game as mafia

So that leaves Art and Storm. We know Art has copycat abilities, and we can see that Art used that as an active ability to copy Nat on N1. Art could be a mafia copycat, who got very very lucky with her cover story by hitting 3P with her shot, but that's not my current read on the situation.

I think it's more likely that Storm, who claimed to use no action on N1, was actually part of the original mafteam with B00K and Potato, and activated the randomized mafia conversion.

And I'm going to double down on that reasoning by putting down a vote on Storm.

[quote=Nat]If Hiii revealed that list, it could have been to get town to go in circles for a while. Which is. A trap that I have. Fallen into. If that is the case. I mean, it would assume a lot of forethought by maf. But hm. I know there are no flavor clues, but the maf conversion was worded like it was more of a 'this player stumbled into evil' vibe.[/quote] To be clear here - I think that Hiii probably chose to activate whichever "lights on" feature would reveal that list while submitting their N1 action, when they were definitively town. It's their words and actions from D2 onward that I'm not certain about!

[quote name="@BerryBagel" date="2022-12-23 18:29:51" ] First - I want to [i]un-clear[/i] Hiii from my 'safely town' list. If Hiii is the converted mafia member, then the actions list from night one would have been a town action from before they were converted. Tracking Dandelion is the only role-based action that Hiii did since the conversion, and that doesn't tell us anything that hasn't already been self-reported by Dandelion. So...I don't know, I don't think Hiii would be my first pick for a vote today, but Hiii is still distinctly a possibility. [/quote] true; i forgot that conversions happen after abilities are used. [quote name="@natsinabucket" date="2022-12-23 18:40:42" ] If Hiii revealed that list, it could have been to get town to go in circles for a while. Which is. A trap that I have. Fallen into. If that is the case. I mean, it would assume a lot of forethought by maf. But hm. I know there are no flavor clues, but the maf conversion was worded like it was more of a 'this player stumbled into evil' vibe. [/quote] and following that line of thought; if i was the conversion, it would have happened AFTER i used my ability to reveal the visit list. so, even if i was maf conversion, the ability used d1 would have been made in the best interests of town. i think we are also ignoring how the visit list has also helped town in many ways, i.e. clearing some people and throwing sus on others (*cough* potato). [quote name="natsinabucket" date="2022-12-23 08:01:09" ] And if there is, we would need to wonder if Hiii's result was tampered with as well. [/quote] also yes; while it is a possibility, i can't help but feel like it would be incredibly unlikely. i DID drop hints about my abilities d2 and d3 so it's possible that mafia figured out that i am an illuminator but would mafia really chance it like that? i feel like a better move n2 would be to redirect one of the people with killing abilities or a doctor. [quote name="@dandelionfires" date="2022-12-23 06:25:25" ] [quote="Hiii"] for the second paragraph,, my tinfoil hat theory was that dandelion got converted which is why nobody visited them. [b]maf would almost certainly go after a healer, so i figured dandelion would be a prime candidate due to their talkativeness + ability, and i was hoping to catch mafia in the act. i did not; and was really confused as to why no mafia visited. they went after lyre,, which makes less sense. personally, it didn't seem like mafia would benefit as much from lyre's death as opposed to dandelion,[/b] but [i]this theory kind of goes down the drain if maf conversion is considered a visit. and yeah i know that i mentioned earlier that i thought conversion would be a visit but this is kind of the only explanation i can think of rn [/i] [/quote] [u]Italicized part:[/u] I don't really understand what you're saying here? No one was converted last night (I'm assuming it would have been announced again.) Whoever was converted, it happened on the previous night. Are you saying you thought mafia could do more than one conversion in this game? That seems pretty op to me. [/quote] no, that's not what i was getting at. my theory was basically: perhaps you got converted n1, which is why i got no results n2 because maf would have no reason to visit you. ----- i think i'm voting @stormdreamer. their initial d3 posts were a little weird from my pov because they seemed to be tunneling on me; and it just screamed mafia trying to deflect sus onto a townie. also, their ability (ies)? storm claims to have an x-shot that, when the first shot is used, there's kinda like a 2 day death timer on them. i think the current trend with abilities is that there is [b]at least two[/b] per person. so i'm curious as to what the other ability storm has is/why didn't they use it (unless it's a passive). i'll be staying up quite late today so i think i'll get a chance to see storm's defense!

@BerryBagel That is actually a fair point about Storm. I was thinking of Storm being scum in the context of an Ainsell convert/Storm scumteam, but if the conversion is random, then I do think it would be a better bet to go for Storm than Ainsell. If Storm flips town, my strongest susses will still be you and Inu. The main problem with Storm being scum is that Storm was the one to point out Potato's weird roleclaim. I am going to go back and re-read that whole interaction to refresh my memory on what happened. Either Storm was bussing Potato (which I guess could be a 5D chess play if they knew Potato couldn't be elimed, something I was considering an unlikely possibility in a previous post), or Berry is actually the remaining original maf. [quote=@natsinabucket] The most common name here is Inu. I feel like investigating Inu will narrow down things the most- if Inu flips town we can eliminate them as the convert AND Berry as the convert (though not entirely as maf, for me at least). [/quote] This is a good point as well. I think it makes more sense to me right now to go for a Storm or Berry vote since Inu claims to be poisoned, but also, if we do elim Inu and they do flip town at least we would be eliming someone who was probably going to die anyway (sorry Inu, I know that sounds mean!) so it wouldn't be the worst mis-elim in the world and we would get some info. Maybe I'm being totally fooled by mafia, but Ainsell's bit of frustration in their response to my vote does read as genuine to me. Obviously that far from clears Ainsell, but I think a Storm + random convert team does make sense, and if Storm flips town/3p that's going to be a strong argument for Inu and Berry being scum in my mind, since Inu's investigative result resolved after alignment conversion, and Berry is the strongest candidate for being maf from the beginning besides Storm, since Berry is a redirecter and that could be a maf ability. I also did want to see if Berry would go for an Ainsell vote after I put one down, as that would be the easiest option for a Berry/Inu team to take. Either Berry is playing a very strong mafia game (to quote her words about me lol) or she is genuinely trying to sus out scum. Either way I'd say I might be willing to see where a Storm vote goes, after I go back and do my re-read. Oh and also good points about Hiii not being cleared by any post-conversion actions. As for Berry's points about me maybe losing my abilities by being converted, fair enough, there's no way for me to prove that's not true right now. Hopefully I can stop someone from dying tonight. Here are my thoughts right now: Top susses for mafia from D1: Berry, Storm Could be a random mafia convert: Inu, Ainsell, Hiii Unlikely but possible to be a mafia convert: Art Most likely town: Nat And refreshed the page and saw Hiii's post, thanks for clarifying that Hiii I missed what you were saying originally. I think I pretty much responded to why I think I'm still alive (could be wifom working as intended but basically I have no clue)

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can you tell us if mafia was allowed to pick who they converted?

lol this definitely means we are being really dumb about something but my brain is too fried to figure out what xD

@Tanglefire Would the conversion show as a visit?

uhhhh bad sign for this line of reasoning i guess

@TangleFire is it possible for players to use more than one active ability in a night?