the beastclans lore has always left a sour taste in my mouth, thank you fr team for being willing to accept your mistakes and work towards fixing them. excited to see where you take the new lore!
and like a few other have mentioned, i also believe that changing some of the wording around familiars would be a good way to help this change
the beastclans lore has always left a sour taste in my mouth, thank you fr team for being willing to accept your mistakes and work towards fixing them. excited to see where you take the new lore!
and like a few other have mentioned, i also believe that changing some of the wording around familiars would be a good way to help this change
I love FR for this reason. The staff are so conscious and thoughtful about their actions and the impacts of those actions. Reading the beastclans on the rise lore previously, I was thinking about the implications and those were rather concerning to me. However, I really appreciate the thought the staff have put into this post, and the revisions made.
Also, the scene is rad
I love FR for this reason. The staff are so conscious and thoughtful about their actions and the impacts of those actions. Reading the beastclans on the rise lore previously, I was thinking about the implications and those were rather concerning to me. However, I really appreciate the thought the staff have put into this post, and the revisions made.
Also, the scene is rad
Bamboo toilet paper!!
I am a pile of guinea pigs in a trench coat
I have an
Art Shop ooooh
So, I'm confused... Reading the post and lore, I get the implication that the dragons don't, and never have, had conflicts with the beastclans. But I see people saying there still is??? I'm confused.
And I don't mean beastclans working alongside dragon clan allies against rival dragon clans (let's say Nature vs Plague for example), I mean purely beastclan vs dragon clan.
I'm just worried about how this affects my lore, I do my best to follow the site lore as close as I can with only slight alterations... but it involves territory conflict between not only my clan and local beastclans, but between other beastclans as well (mith vs harpies, for example).
So, I'm confused... Reading the post and lore, I get the implication that the dragons don't, and never have, had conflicts with the beastclans. But I see people saying there still is??? I'm confused.
And I don't mean beastclans working alongside dragon clan allies against rival dragon clans (let's say Nature vs Plague for example), I mean purely beastclan vs dragon clan.
I'm just worried about how this affects my lore, I do my best to follow the site lore as close as I can with only slight alterations... but it involves territory conflict between not only my clan and local beastclans, but between other beastclans as well (mith vs harpies, for example).
[quote name="Akherus" date="2022-12-14 18:00:09" ]
Ah, might we be seeing Mith, Sphynx, Dryad, and/or others getting some love as well? Didn't realise that they weren't listed with the others on the defunct page but I'd presume they are also sentient cultures as much as the original six that had entries- as well as some others I'm not thinking of at the moment. Not that it is any small amount of lore to work out, I thoroughly expect the other five groupings that RotBC had included details on alone will take some time to revise. But I ever train my eyes to the future.
[/quote]
I didn't even think of this! We've got our 6 official beastclans; Harpies, Longneck, Centaur, Maren, Serthis, and Talonok... but there are still familiars that have very obvious sapient qualities.
- Dryads
- Sphinx & Manticores
- Mith
- Faun
- Questionables: Fungi, Imps, Sprangyroos, Aviar?
Would 100% love to see something that ties these guys in!
Akherus wrote on 2022-12-14 18:00:09:
Ah, might we be seeing Mith, Sphynx, Dryad, and/or others getting some love as well? Didn't realise that they weren't listed with the others on the defunct page but I'd presume they are also sentient cultures as much as the original six that had entries- as well as some others I'm not thinking of at the moment. Not that it is any small amount of lore to work out, I thoroughly expect the other five groupings that RotBC had included details on alone will take some time to revise. But I ever train my eyes to the future.
I didn't even think of this! We've got our 6 official beastclans; Harpies, Longneck, Centaur, Maren, Serthis, and Talonok... but there are still familiars that have very obvious sapient qualities.
- Dryads
- Sphinx & Manticores
- Mith
- Faun
- Questionables: Fungi, Imps, Sprangyroos, Aviar?
Would 100% love to see something that ties these guys in!
@Hippotang, territorial disputes or conflicts between relatively equal groups are not the issue. [b][url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/ann/3193191/38#post_52948297]Please read Undel's post[/url][/b] for more clarification. Thank you!
[quote name="Undel" date="2022-12-14 14:15:01" ]
[quote name="FleetingFancy" date="2022-12-14 13:45:06" ]
There is a difference between fiction that mirrors reality in an actually harmful way (like glorifying abuse, normalizing toxic relationships, just to name a few smaller ones), and fiction that mirrors real life for a point. Both can still hurt you, but one should not, in my opinion, be changed.
If we cannot have dark themes in our stories in case it hurts someone because it mirrors real life, how will any stories ever be told? There's a line to be drawn, yes - again, some media do take bad/toxic/horrible situations and portray them terribly - but by retconning the story here entirely, it feels like the message being told is that fiction CAN NEVER mirror real life, because if it hurts then it HAS to be bad.
[/quote]
We did not feel that the genocide, cultural erasure (in the original harpy articles the war was causing them to lose their culture), and loss of territory to an overwhelming force were something we wanted in a game when the creatures this was happening to looked so much like humans. This does not mean that harpies and dragons are always buddies. Though the harpies have a close alliance with the majority of wind clans, other flights treat them with a more cautious approach and may have their own alliances with different Beastclans. And those big shapes harassing even the harpies in the Windswept Plateau? Those aren't ancients.
[b]In other words, we simply chose what we did and did not want in our game, and we decided that the colonialism parallels were something we did not want to have in our story.[/b] And we especially did not like the fact our unresolved story placed our players in the parallel position of destructive aggressors.
There is still conflict and dark themes in the world of Sornieth. The dragon flights remain antagonistic towards one another. Dragons follow primal elemental forces as their guiding principles. There's a worker's revolution in Fire, a catastrophic proliferation of magic vs technology in Arcane and Lightning, a wartime standstill between Plague and Nature, things from deep in the stone being dug up in Earth, otherworldly threats forever jailed except maybe...not?, missing prophetic deities, an energy-sucking otherworldly force infesting Sornieth, and an overwhelming surge of elemental energy to name a few. Plus the fact that dragons—like people—aren't always going to get along with each other.
[/quote]
@
Hippotang, territorial disputes or conflicts between relatively equal groups are not the issue.
Please read Undel's post for more clarification. Thank you!
Undel wrote on 2022-12-14 14:15:01:
FleetingFancy wrote on 2022-12-14 13:45:06:
There is a difference between fiction that mirrors reality in an actually harmful way (like glorifying abuse, normalizing toxic relationships, just to name a few smaller ones), and fiction that mirrors real life for a point. Both can still hurt you, but one should not, in my opinion, be changed.
If we cannot have dark themes in our stories in case it hurts someone because it mirrors real life, how will any stories ever be told? There's a line to be drawn, yes - again, some media do take bad/toxic/horrible situations and portray them terribly - but by retconning the story here entirely, it feels like the message being told is that fiction CAN NEVER mirror real life, because if it hurts then it HAS to be bad.
We did not feel that the genocide, cultural erasure (in the original harpy articles the war was causing them to lose their culture), and loss of territory to an overwhelming force were something we wanted in a game when the creatures this was happening to looked so much like humans. This does not mean that harpies and dragons are always buddies. Though the harpies have a close alliance with the majority of wind clans, other flights treat them with a more cautious approach and may have their own alliances with different Beastclans. And those big shapes harassing even the harpies in the Windswept Plateau? Those aren't ancients.
In other words, we simply chose what we did and did not want in our game, and we decided that the colonialism parallels were something we did not want to have in our story. And we especially did not like the fact our unresolved story placed our players in the parallel position of destructive aggressors.
There is still conflict and dark themes in the world of Sornieth. The dragon flights remain antagonistic towards one another. Dragons follow primal elemental forces as their guiding principles. There's a worker's revolution in Fire, a catastrophic proliferation of magic vs technology in Arcane and Lightning, a wartime standstill between Plague and Nature, things from deep in the stone being dug up in Earth, otherworldly threats forever jailed except maybe...not?, missing prophetic deities, an energy-sucking otherworldly force infesting Sornieth, and an overwhelming surge of elemental energy to name a few. Plus the fact that dragons—like people—aren't always going to get along with each other.
pleased with these changes and excited for more worldbuilding in the future!
pleased with these changes and excited for more worldbuilding in the future!
@bogfriend
she / her | + 3 fr time | avatar dragon
I love this! I've long written lore with the snippets of positive canon lore we did have. It'll be nice to have far more of it. Very exciting.
I love this! I've long written lore with the snippets of positive canon lore we did have. It'll be nice to have far more of it. Very exciting.
[quote name="Aequorin" date="2022-12-14 18:19:56" ]
@/Hippotang, territorial disputes or conflicts between relatively equal groups are not the issue. [b][url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/ann/3193191/38#post_52948297]Please read Undel's post[/url][/b] for more clarification. Thank you!
[quote name="Undel" date="2022-12-14 14:15:01" ]
[quote name="FleetingFancy" date="2022-12-14 13:45:06" ]
There is a difference between fiction that mirrors reality in an actually harmful way (like glorifying abuse, normalizing toxic relationships, just to name a few smaller ones), and fiction that mirrors real life for a point. Both can still hurt you, but one should not, in my opinion, be changed.
If we cannot have dark themes in our stories in case it hurts someone because it mirrors real life, how will any stories ever be told? There's a line to be drawn, yes - again, some media do take bad/toxic/horrible situations and portray them terribly - but by retconning the story here entirely, it feels like the message being told is that fiction CAN NEVER mirror real life, because if it hurts then it HAS to be bad.
[/quote]
We did not feel that the genocide, cultural erasure (in the original harpy articles the war was causing them to lose their culture), and loss of territory to an overwhelming force were something we wanted in a game when the creatures this was happening to looked so much like humans. This does not mean that harpies and dragons are always buddies. Though the harpies have a close alliance with the majority of wind clans, other flights treat them with a more cautious approach and may have their own alliances with different Beastclans. And those big shapes harassing even the harpies in the Windswept Plateau? Those aren't ancients.
[b]In other words, we simply chose what we did and did not want in our game, and we decided that the colonialism parallels were something we did not want to have in our story.[/b] And we especially did not like the fact our unresolved story placed our players in the parallel position of destructive aggressors.
There is still conflict and dark themes in the world of Sornieth. The dragon flights remain antagonistic towards one another. Dragons follow primal elemental forces as their guiding principles. There's a worker's revolution in Fire, a catastrophic proliferation of magic vs technology in Arcane and Lightning, a wartime standstill between Plague and Nature, things from deep in the stone being dug up in Earth, otherworldly threats forever jailed except maybe...not?, missing prophetic deities, an energy-sucking otherworldly force infesting Sornieth, and an overwhelming surge of elemental energy to name a few. Plus the fact that dragons—like people—aren't always going to get along with each other.
[/quote]
[/quote]
I appreciate the ping! But, tbh, I'm still confused. Undel's post doesn't feel relevant to my confusion??? I have no problem with the removal of the colonialism implications, I just got the vibe that battles don't happen anymore in canon, outside of inter-dragon clan battles or fighting shade-touched creatures. I like my lore a lot, but I'm worried I'll have to change it because I really do want to follow the site canon as much as I can. So I'm really just trying to understand if battles still occur, or have occurred in the past, between dragon and beastclan, and beastclan against fellow beastclan. Not necessarily wars, but battles that still end with death on both sides.
It is 100% possible I'm just too tired to comprehend anything properly and should come back to this tomorrow when I've had some sleep ^^' and if future lore additions will answer my questions, I am more than happy to wait!
Aequorin wrote on 2022-12-14 18:19:56:
@/Hippotang, territorial disputes or conflicts between relatively equal groups are not the issue.
Please read Undel's post for more clarification. Thank you!
Undel wrote on 2022-12-14 14:15:01:
FleetingFancy wrote on 2022-12-14 13:45:06:
There is a difference between fiction that mirrors reality in an actually harmful way (like glorifying abuse, normalizing toxic relationships, just to name a few smaller ones), and fiction that mirrors real life for a point. Both can still hurt you, but one should not, in my opinion, be changed.
If we cannot have dark themes in our stories in case it hurts someone because it mirrors real life, how will any stories ever be told? There's a line to be drawn, yes - again, some media do take bad/toxic/horrible situations and portray them terribly - but by retconning the story here entirely, it feels like the message being told is that fiction CAN NEVER mirror real life, because if it hurts then it HAS to be bad.
We did not feel that the genocide, cultural erasure (in the original harpy articles the war was causing them to lose their culture), and loss of territory to an overwhelming force were something we wanted in a game when the creatures this was happening to looked so much like humans. This does not mean that harpies and dragons are always buddies. Though the harpies have a close alliance with the majority of wind clans, other flights treat them with a more cautious approach and may have their own alliances with different Beastclans. And those big shapes harassing even the harpies in the Windswept Plateau? Those aren't ancients.
In other words, we simply chose what we did and did not want in our game, and we decided that the colonialism parallels were something we did not want to have in our story. And we especially did not like the fact our unresolved story placed our players in the parallel position of destructive aggressors.
There is still conflict and dark themes in the world of Sornieth. The dragon flights remain antagonistic towards one another. Dragons follow primal elemental forces as their guiding principles. There's a worker's revolution in Fire, a catastrophic proliferation of magic vs technology in Arcane and Lightning, a wartime standstill between Plague and Nature, things from deep in the stone being dug up in Earth, otherworldly threats forever jailed except maybe...not?, missing prophetic deities, an energy-sucking otherworldly force infesting Sornieth, and an overwhelming surge of elemental energy to name a few. Plus the fact that dragons—like people—aren't always going to get along with each other.
I appreciate the ping! But, tbh, I'm still confused. Undel's post doesn't feel relevant to my confusion??? I have no problem with the removal of the colonialism implications, I just got the vibe that battles don't happen anymore in canon, outside of inter-dragon clan battles or fighting shade-touched creatures. I like my lore a lot, but I'm worried I'll have to change it because I really do want to follow the site canon as much as I can. So I'm really just trying to understand if battles still occur, or have occurred in the past, between dragon and beastclan, and beastclan against fellow beastclan. Not necessarily wars, but battles that still end with death on both sides.
It is 100% possible I'm just too tired to comprehend anything properly and should come back to this tomorrow when I've had some sleep ^^' and if future lore additions will answer my questions, I am more than happy to wait!
I'm glad the team is addressing this, the beastclan topic has always been icky for me because of these parallels.
I'm glad the team is addressing this, the beastclan topic has always been icky for me because of these parallels.
[quote name="@LuckyKitty" date="2022-12-14 13:08:52" ]
I wonder if this means the whole "yeeting familiars into the cauldron" thing will be removed and reworked. I sure hope so. Because that's always made me EXTREMELY uncomfortable.
[/quote]
unsure if somebody else has pointed this out or not, sorry for the ping if so!
One of the devs explained in the past that when you put familiars in the cauldron, its not the familiars themselves going into the goop; it's just a tuft of fur, or a fallen off scale or something similar! [b]Familiars don't lose their life to go in the science soup![/b]
I like to imagine that Baldwin gives the beast clan members jobs in the lab, or lets them do work for Fiona! For non-sapient familiars, I'm sure Fiona always has dibs ;>
I wonder if this means the whole "yeeting familiars into the cauldron" thing will be removed and reworked. I sure hope so. Because that's always made me EXTREMELY uncomfortable.
unsure if somebody else has pointed this out or not, sorry for the ping if so!
One of the devs explained in the past that when you put familiars in the cauldron, its not the familiars themselves going into the goop; it's just a tuft of fur, or a fallen off scale or something similar!
Familiars don't lose their life to go in the science soup!
I like to imagine that Baldwin gives the beast clan members jobs in the lab, or lets them do work for Fiona! For non-sapient familiars, I'm sure Fiona always has dibs ;>
