my best friend is a biologist give me your wisdom my sweet prince @yourself
Flight Rising Discussion
Discuss everything and anything Flight Rising.
TOPIC | Warmblooded or Coldblooded...?
Yeah I'd say almost certainly all endotherms or at least mesothermy, though the mechanism of that endothermy might vary. The more mammal like breeds probably exhibit the standard form of endothermy, but some breeds like the coatl and veilspun might use a form of facultative endothermy, using the heat generated by flight (a very energy intensive activity) to warm up. Massive breeds like imperials and Ridgebacks may partially or wholly rely on gigantothermy. Honestly the only one I'd say could be totally ectothermic are the snappers, since they cannot fly without magic. But even then, all breeds exhibit the metabolic needs of endotherms, so they're probably all endotherms in some manner, even if only because flight is energy intensive as hell and would both require and produce large amounts of energy.
Yeah I'd say almost certainly all endotherms or at least mesothermy, though the mechanism of that endothermy might vary. The more mammal like breeds probably exhibit the standard form of endothermy, but some breeds like the coatl and veilspun might use a form of facultative endothermy, using the heat generated by flight (a very energy intensive activity) to warm up. Massive breeds like imperials and Ridgebacks may partially or wholly rely on gigantothermy. Honestly the only one I'd say could be totally ectothermic are the snappers, since they cannot fly without magic. But even then, all breeds exhibit the metabolic needs of endotherms, so they're probably all endotherms in some manner, even if only because flight is energy intensive as hell and would both require and produce large amounts of energy.
Actually now that I think about it magic is probably involved in allowing all dragon breeds to fly, though I don't know how much this would affect a dragon's metabolic needs. Actually, does using magic use energy? Who knows how magic would affect something's physiology beyond the obvious, if it even does at all.
Actually now that I think about it magic is probably involved in allowing all dragon breeds to fly, though I don't know how much this would affect a dragon's metabolic needs. Actually, does using magic use energy? Who knows how magic would affect something's physiology beyond the obvious, if it even does at all.
All super valid points!
I think I am also leaning more toward warmbloodedness being more dominant. i hadn't thought about stuff like metabolism before, and its true, dragons do eat a whole lot and we don't see too much canon lore that leans toward basking. Though veilspuns being insect based does point to a more insect like cirulatory system. I also think bogsneaks could be amphibians too, since they are canonically meant to live in swamps.
(also @myself and @yourself your usernames and coordination are godtier, just thought you should know.)
I think I am also leaning more toward warmbloodedness being more dominant. i hadn't thought about stuff like metabolism before, and its true, dragons do eat a whole lot and we don't see too much canon lore that leans toward basking. Though veilspuns being insect based does point to a more insect like cirulatory system. I also think bogsneaks could be amphibians too, since they are canonically meant to live in swamps.
(also @myself and @yourself your usernames and coordination are godtier, just thought you should know.)
All super valid points!
I think I am also leaning more toward warmbloodedness being more dominant. i hadn't thought about stuff like metabolism before, and its true, dragons do eat a whole lot and we don't see too much canon lore that leans toward basking. Though veilspuns being insect based does point to a more insect like cirulatory system. I also think bogsneaks could be amphibians too, since they are canonically meant to live in swamps.
(also @myself and @yourself your usernames and coordination are godtier, just thought you should know.)
I think I am also leaning more toward warmbloodedness being more dominant. i hadn't thought about stuff like metabolism before, and its true, dragons do eat a whole lot and we don't see too much canon lore that leans toward basking. Though veilspuns being insect based does point to a more insect like cirulatory system. I also think bogsneaks could be amphibians too, since they are canonically meant to live in swamps.
(also @myself and @yourself your usernames and coordination are godtier, just thought you should know.)
According to everything we know about warmblooded vertebrates on Earth, nothing really says that dragons are coldblooded. I am fairly certain dragons are endothermic aka produce their own heat.
a) filaments - many dragons are furry and wear garments that are supposed to trap heat and contain it. Without body temperature, filaments such as those would not have evolved and clothing would have no use as coldblooded organisms need direct heat to function
b) their activity - dragons are very active and widespread creatures who do not have any sort of known physical requirements of having to bask in the sun or have a source of warmth to set their metabolism into motion. Since dragons of the same species can exist near the poles or near the equator, that means they have some sort of internal regulation. Otherwise, it is impossible for them to function. Each coldblooded organism requires specific temperatures at which they can function, that's why lizards need warmth to function, otherwise their system will literally shut down, while some fish who are also coldblooded must exist in warm waters, otherwise they will also die
c) their size - if you treat dragons to be in the canonical size they are, especially the largest ones, they certainly produce heat simply by existing. That's why the largest animals tend to lack filaments unless they live in very cold regions - they simply produce that much heat. Also one of the reasons why Tyrannosaurus, Albertosaurus, Tarbosaurus, etc were most likely very bare
d) their growth - one of the reasons why palaeontologists are fairly certain that non-avian dinosaurs were warmblooded is because they have a very similar growth pattern as endothermic vertebrates of today. Basically, unlike coldblooded reptiles and the like who never really stop growing, non-avian dinosaurs stop growing once they've reached adulthood, just like us or our dog or cat. Dragons have a finite growth cycle
e) Nocturne enter hibernation (in lore), also known as hypothermia, which occurs in warmblooded animals and is different from the hypothermia of coldblooded animals
f) fat in coldblooded vertebrates is very bad for their health while fat on warmblooded animals is crucial - there are dragons who are thin, fat, medium-sized, etc
g) very large brains such as those of dragons (which are required for mathematical and verbal processing, etc) use a LOT of warmth which means they must be warmblooded
Also P.S. Veilspun aren't bugs, they're clearly vertebrate-like in structure. They were [i]based[/i] on some insects but they aren't bugs, they're dragons [emoji=ridgeback laughing size=1]
According to everything we know about warmblooded vertebrates on Earth, nothing really says that dragons are coldblooded. I am fairly certain dragons are endothermic aka produce their own heat.
a) filaments - many dragons are furry and wear garments that are supposed to trap heat and contain it. Without body temperature, filaments such as those would not have evolved and clothing would have no use as coldblooded organisms need direct heat to function
b) their activity - dragons are very active and widespread creatures who do not have any sort of known physical requirements of having to bask in the sun or have a source of warmth to set their metabolism into motion. Since dragons of the same species can exist near the poles or near the equator, that means they have some sort of internal regulation. Otherwise, it is impossible for them to function. Each coldblooded organism requires specific temperatures at which they can function, that's why lizards need warmth to function, otherwise their system will literally shut down, while some fish who are also coldblooded must exist in warm waters, otherwise they will also die
c) their size - if you treat dragons to be in the canonical size they are, especially the largest ones, they certainly produce heat simply by existing. That's why the largest animals tend to lack filaments unless they live in very cold regions - they simply produce that much heat. Also one of the reasons why Tyrannosaurus, Albertosaurus, Tarbosaurus, etc were most likely very bare
d) their growth - one of the reasons why palaeontologists are fairly certain that non-avian dinosaurs were warmblooded is because they have a very similar growth pattern as endothermic vertebrates of today. Basically, unlike coldblooded reptiles and the like who never really stop growing, non-avian dinosaurs stop growing once they've reached adulthood, just like us or our dog or cat. Dragons have a finite growth cycle
e) Nocturne enter hibernation (in lore), also known as hypothermia, which occurs in warmblooded animals and is different from the hypothermia of coldblooded animals
f) fat in coldblooded vertebrates is very bad for their health while fat on warmblooded animals is crucial - there are dragons who are thin, fat, medium-sized, etc
g) very large brains such as those of dragons (which are required for mathematical and verbal processing, etc) use a LOT of warmth which means they must be warmblooded
Also P.S. Veilspun aren't bugs, they're clearly vertebrate-like in structure. They were based on some insects but they aren't bugs, they're dragons
a) filaments - many dragons are furry and wear garments that are supposed to trap heat and contain it. Without body temperature, filaments such as those would not have evolved and clothing would have no use as coldblooded organisms need direct heat to function
b) their activity - dragons are very active and widespread creatures who do not have any sort of known physical requirements of having to bask in the sun or have a source of warmth to set their metabolism into motion. Since dragons of the same species can exist near the poles or near the equator, that means they have some sort of internal regulation. Otherwise, it is impossible for them to function. Each coldblooded organism requires specific temperatures at which they can function, that's why lizards need warmth to function, otherwise their system will literally shut down, while some fish who are also coldblooded must exist in warm waters, otherwise they will also die
c) their size - if you treat dragons to be in the canonical size they are, especially the largest ones, they certainly produce heat simply by existing. That's why the largest animals tend to lack filaments unless they live in very cold regions - they simply produce that much heat. Also one of the reasons why Tyrannosaurus, Albertosaurus, Tarbosaurus, etc were most likely very bare
d) their growth - one of the reasons why palaeontologists are fairly certain that non-avian dinosaurs were warmblooded is because they have a very similar growth pattern as endothermic vertebrates of today. Basically, unlike coldblooded reptiles and the like who never really stop growing, non-avian dinosaurs stop growing once they've reached adulthood, just like us or our dog or cat. Dragons have a finite growth cycle
e) Nocturne enter hibernation (in lore), also known as hypothermia, which occurs in warmblooded animals and is different from the hypothermia of coldblooded animals
f) fat in coldblooded vertebrates is very bad for their health while fat on warmblooded animals is crucial - there are dragons who are thin, fat, medium-sized, etc
g) very large brains such as those of dragons (which are required for mathematical and verbal processing, etc) use a LOT of warmth which means they must be warmblooded
Also P.S. Veilspun aren't bugs, they're clearly vertebrate-like in structure. They were based on some insects but they aren't bugs, they're dragons
[quote name="Natron" date="2021-07-12 20:48:14" ]
Also P.S. Veilspun aren't bugs, they're clearly vertebrate-like in structure. They were [i]based[/i] on some insects but they aren't bugs, they're dragons [emoji=ridgeback laughing size=1]
[/quote]
I’d also certainly go as far as to say that dragons aren’t reptiles, as while, in real life they’d be vertebrates like us (and thus lobe finned fish- yes, YOU, reading this, are a lobe finned fish, too, fellow vertebrate. In this world you’re either a fish or you’re boneless), they have six limbs, and would not be in tetrapoda. They’d be their own thing off in a ‘sextapoda’ category or something.
Banescales also are separate and in sextapoda. They’re dragons. They could’ve just lost the front limbs.
Then again this is speculating on the evolutionary and phylogenetic stuff on creatures created by gods
But hey
I like doin it
Natron wrote on 2021-07-12 20:48:14:
Also P.S. Veilspun aren't bugs, they're clearly vertebrate-like in structure. They were based on some insects but they aren't bugs, they're dragons
I’d also certainly go as far as to say that dragons aren’t reptiles, as while, in real life they’d be vertebrates like us (and thus lobe finned fish- yes, YOU, reading this, are a lobe finned fish, too, fellow vertebrate. In this world you’re either a fish or you’re boneless), they have six limbs, and would not be in tetrapoda. They’d be their own thing off in a ‘sextapoda’ category or something.
Banescales also are separate and in sextapoda. They’re dragons. They could’ve just lost the front limbs.
Then again this is speculating on the evolutionary and phylogenetic stuff on creatures created by gods
But hey
I like doin it
@beeff a fellow taxonomy enthusiast, I see >:))) no idea if you've seen this before but you might wanna check this out.
@beeff a fellow taxonomy enthusiast, I see >:))) no idea if you've seen this before but you might wanna check this out.
