@
oux
Thank you for the response.
If that is the case, which it may well be, perhaps the issue is that the wording of the update is unclear, at least to those who are new and not familiar with past discussion. My post above is based on what the ruling appears to be to me, as a naive reader. I'll leave it as is, but I certainly hope that your interpretation is more correct than mine!
@
oux
Thank you for the response.
If that is the case, which it may well be, perhaps the issue is that the wording of the update is unclear, at least to those who are new and not familiar with past discussion. My post above is based on what the ruling appears to be to me, as a naive reader. I'll leave it as is, but I certainly hope that your interpretation is more correct than mine!
@
Gemset You would have to read through the thread, but many admins have made replies regarding the issue that you're questioning. I do admit that for new players, the emphasis of the rule (which has been in place since the game started; this isn't a new rule, they are just coming down on the harassment that surfaces from people either outright breaking it or abusing it) could have been worded more clearly for others. Or at least admins could edit the original post to show their replies in later posts so that people don't have to search through 30+ pages to see their response.
@
Gemset You would have to read through the thread, but many admins have made replies regarding the issue that you're questioning. I do admit that for new players, the emphasis of the rule (which has been in place since the game started; this isn't a new rule, they are just coming down on the harassment that surfaces from people either outright breaking it or abusing it) could have been worded more clearly for others. Or at least admins could edit the original post to show their replies in later posts so that people don't have to search through 30+ pages to see their response.
@
oux
Ah, there is my newness showing again. I'm not used to admins responding in the middle of threads like this and I didn't think to read through all pages to check. Different communities, different norms, I suppose. Thanks again.
@
oux
Ah, there is my newness showing again. I'm not used to admins responding in the middle of threads like this and I didn't think to read through all pages to check. Different communities, different norms, I suppose. Thanks again.
@Gemset: Actually, it was also talked about in the main post.
[quote]That is not to say either side of this issue is absolved or protected by this stance, especially if the express intent is to harass. Dictating to others how they should play Flight Rising is harassment. [b]Seeking out players who have conditions for the dragons and expressly going against those to upset them (i.e. taking advantage of our stance) is harassment.
[/b]
As with all harassment reports, we heavily research, investigate, and issue penalties based on intent.[/quote]
To be fair, they probably should have bolded the part I just did since a lot of people seemed to have missed it.
@
Gemset: Actually, it was also talked about in the main post.
Quote:
That is not to say either side of this issue is absolved or protected by this stance, especially if the express intent is to harass. Dictating to others how they should play Flight Rising is harassment. Seeking out players who have conditions for the dragons and expressly going against those to upset them (i.e. taking advantage of our stance) is harassment.
As with all harassment reports, we heavily research, investigate, and issue penalties based on intent.
To be fair, they probably should have bolded the part I just did since a lot of people seemed to have missed it.
@
orangeCrates
I have read the statement you highlight. The implication (although obviously there's quite a lot of room for interpretation and I can't know how the administrators intend to enforce this) is that to be counted as harassment an action must be both deliberate and with intent to hurt. This means that sellers still have no recourse against those who are merely callous and out for a profit. See my commentary above.
Of course, being a browser game this is all of rather low importance in the grand scheme of things...
@
orangeCrates
I have read the statement you highlight. The implication (although obviously there's quite a lot of room for interpretation and I can't know how the administrators intend to enforce this) is that to be counted as harassment an action must be both deliberate and with intent to hurt. This means that sellers still have no recourse against those who are merely callous and out for a profit. See my commentary above.
Of course, being a browser game this is all of rather low importance in the grand scheme of things...
If I can paraphrase here- demanding another person doesn't exalt a dragon after its been sold to them is like a baker telling someone how to eat their cake after they've bought it
On the opposite end, a person buying a dragon purely to spite exalt is like a person buying a whole cake just to sneeze on it and stare at the baker
Both parties here are equally at fault, and it's just overall bad prose
If I can paraphrase here- demanding another person doesn't exalt a dragon after its been sold to them is like a baker telling someone how to eat their cake after they've bought it
On the opposite end, a person buying a dragon purely to spite exalt is like a person buying a whole cake just to sneeze on it and stare at the baker
Both parties here are equally at fault, and it's just overall bad prose
@Gemset
[quote name="Aequorin" date=2016-05-20 12:44:02]
[quote name="Doggo" date=2016-05-20 12:38:22]
Does that mean we can go into the free dragons thread for free fodder?
[/quote]
we also consider abuse of our stance to be harassment as well.
[br]
[quote]Seeking out players who have conditions for the dragons and expressly going against those to upset them (i.e. taking advantage of our stance) is harassment.[/quote]
[/quote]
Just an fyi, this was shared on the page prior. So if you have a free/cheap dragon thread with the request they not be immediately exalted and someone does just that, they are taking advantage not only of you, but of the rule too, so it's best to report them so the admins can take a look at the situation.
@
Gemset
Aequorin wrote on 2016-05-20:
Doggo wrote on 2016-05-20:
Does that mean we can go into the free dragons thread for free fodder?
we also consider abuse of our stance to be harassment as well.
Quote:
Seeking out players who have conditions for the dragons and expressly going against those to upset them (i.e. taking advantage of our stance) is harassment.
Just an fyi, this was shared on the page prior. So if you have a free/cheap dragon thread with the request they not be immediately exalted and someone does just that, they are taking advantage not only of you, but of the rule too, so it's best to report them so the admins can take a look at the situation.
[quote name="Gemset" date=2016-05-23 13:02:51]
In short (as this is a wall of text), I find the current system to be unfair to sellers. Sellers' only reliable recourse is not to sell at all. By contrast, buyers can buy with impunity and without consequence. There is no practical way for sellers to limit their sales to the sub-population that they wish to sell to, while buyers have free choice. I don't agree with the statement that stipulating terms of sale constitutes harassment.[/quote]
@Gemset
Well, technically that's the way it works in the real world: if someone pays money, they purchase the right to use the item as they please (as long as it's legal, lol).
You may try to limit the sales by selling through forums while checking the potential buyer beforehand (to see if they really keep lore dragons, for example) or only to people you know, etc, but ultimately even they may exalt the dragon someday when they lose interest. That's why I don't trust anyone to keep the hatchlings from one of my pairs (I exalt all of them myself).
Also, it's really, really hard to find a permanent home for a dragon, as literally thousands of dragons are hatched every day and only a tiny part of them doesn't get exalted in the next month. Just imagine: in my 1.5 years here I've accumulated 63 perma-residents yet I've hatched *checks the stats* 1251 eggs. It's obvious that all these dragons had to go somewhere, and most of them did end up exalted.
Gemset wrote on 2016-05-23:
In short (as this is a wall of text), I find the current system to be unfair to sellers. Sellers' only reliable recourse is not to sell at all. By contrast, buyers can buy with impunity and without consequence. There is no practical way for sellers to limit their sales to the sub-population that they wish to sell to, while buyers have free choice. I don't agree with the statement that stipulating terms of sale constitutes harassment.
@
Gemset
Well, technically that's the way it works in the real world: if someone pays money, they purchase the right to use the item as they please (as long as it's legal, lol).
You may try to limit the sales by selling through forums while checking the potential buyer beforehand (to see if they really keep lore dragons, for example) or only to people you know, etc, but ultimately even they may exalt the dragon someday when they lose interest. That's why I don't trust anyone to keep the hatchlings from one of my pairs (I exalt all of them myself).
Also, it's really, really hard to find a permanent home for a dragon, as literally thousands of dragons are hatched every day and only a tiny part of them doesn't get exalted in the next month. Just imagine: in my 1.5 years here I've accumulated 63 perma-residents yet I've hatched *checks the stats* 1251 eggs. It's obvious that all these dragons had to go somewhere, and most of them did end up exalted.
So, if we are selling the dragons through forum posts, are we allowed to request them to not be exalted? I totally understand full lairs, but am I allowed to ask the dragons to not be exalted? I adopt out rather cherished dragons for low prices that often have bios and I rather them not be exalted, but I would never be angry at a player for exalting.
So, if we are selling the dragons through forum posts, are we allowed to request them to not be exalted? I totally understand full lairs, but am I allowed to ask the dragons to not be exalted? I adopt out rather cherished dragons for low prices that often have bios and I rather them not be exalted, but I would never be angry at a player for exalting.
@duskflower
[quote name="duskflower" date=2016-05-24 11:41:52]
So, if we are selling the dragons through forum posts, are we allowed to request them to not be exalted? I totally understand full lairs, but am I allowed to ask the dragons to not be exalted? I adopt out rather cherished dragons for low prices that often have bios and I rather them not be exalted, but I would never be angry at a player for exalting.
[/quote]
Yes.
[quote]What you CAN do if you feel strongly about whether your former dragons are exalted/resold:
Ask, but not demand or require, that the receiving player not exalt or resell their new dragon[/quote]
@
duskflower
duskflower wrote on 2016-05-24:
So, if we are selling the dragons through forum posts, are we allowed to request them to not be exalted? I totally understand full lairs, but am I allowed to ask the dragons to not be exalted? I adopt out rather cherished dragons for low prices that often have bios and I rather them not be exalted, but I would never be angry at a player for exalting.
Yes.
Quote:
What you CAN do if you feel strongly about whether your former dragons are exalted/resold:
Ask, but not demand or require, that the receiving player not exalt or resell their new dragon
