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@snugglebug

I think I might do that, although it’s almost identical to the already existing 119 STR Flyer. Only difference is you save a point in QCK. It’s more of a preference to put in either VIT or INT, since 1 gives room for 1 extra hit in the short term and the other gives better sustainability in the long run.

I was actually talking with a friend just now that it is only lvl + 2 added. So 27 points added from a lvl 25 rally, 22 points added from a lvl 22 rally. And it makes sense pointwise since at first each point adds 5 dmg, but it scales down as you put more into STR (eg you only get 4 per point)

Honestly now that I’ve discovered anticipate works in Mire Flying I almost never want to go back to scratch. I did try to, but then it felt clunky generating breath again so I switched back lol. (I should put the anticipate strat in one of my reserved posts tbh)
Edit: When I figure out how to word it, that is

@brokenstone

the INT vs VIT is totally worth listing a different build imo :3

would you mind pinging me when you get that anticipate strategy writeup running? i've never used anticipate before but it'd be interesting to see how it works in a venue i'm so used to. (i'm also training up another mire flyer, and it'd be nice to have unique style for the both of em :p )

@brokenstone

*crashes in*

Don't mind me, I heard alternative builds and easier mire flying? Could you gimme a ping when you sort out this strategy? It sounds really interesting :D and diversity is good

[quote name="brokenstone" date=2018-01-04 19:28:34] I was actually talking with a friend just now that it is only lvl + 2 added. So 27 points added from a lvl 25 rally, 22 points added from a lvl 22 rally. And it makes sense pointwise since at first each point adds 5 dmg, but it scales down as you put more into STR (eg you only get 4 per point)[/quote] @brokenstone Hi, I am so sorry to jump in. I hope this information can help, as I have seen evidence that buffs really do, in fact, give +30 stats at level 25. I tested each buff thoroughly a few years ago before listing the effects in [url=http://www1.flightrising.com/forums/gde/967048]my skills and monsters guide[/url], and Maki's [url=http://www1.flightrising.com/forums/gde/1344211]battle stones guide[/url] also includes information that is in agreement. Maki does a lot more thorough testing on Coliseum issues than I do and has often helped to spot discrepancies in the info, and I personally trust Maki's information to be accurate. Just in case things changed from 2013, I performed tests just today to check, and my tests today have confirmed that the buff effects still give +30 stats at level 25. Here is some evidence from my tests that I performed a few minutes ago! --- First I will show you the effects of Rallied Scratch and Rallied Eliminate on a Common Podid, where the numbers match up exactly with the formulae in my damage guide as well as the predicted damage for 147 (117 STR + 30 STR from Rally) in the skill calculator. I will provide a screenshot of my dragon's stats and stones too. [b]117 STR + Rally 30 STR Scratch deals 540 damage to Common Podid.[/b] [img]https://imgur.com/dJ9xBQc.png[/img] [img]https://imgur.com/r5j4YjB.png[/img] [b]117 STR + Rally 30 STR Eliminate deals 1659 damage to Common Podid.[/b] [img]https://imgur.com/szJ2su1.png[/img] [img]https://imgur.com/PWxcq9f.png[/img] [b]Dragon's stats and stones show he has 117 STR[/b] [img]https://imgur.com/KcCmNVh.png[/img] [b]Rally tooltip agrees with damage numbers and shows a buff of 30 STR[/b] [img]https://imgur.com/aaFRbzg.png[/img] [b]Here are the other buffs that are not rally, showing tooltips also buffing 30 of each stat[/b] [url=https://imgur.com/zNvdqIh]Haste[/url] [url=https://imgur.com/vbvgkBo]Bolster[/url] [url=https://imgur.com/uJKuIZg]Concentration[/url] [url=https://imgur.com/gdKn8M4]Ward[/url] I hope these help to show that a level 25 buff will truly provide a buff equivalent to level + 5. --- For the discussion of 119 STR vs. 117 STR, I did speed tests in the past to compare the two. My conclusion was that the times were very similar and it's really up to personal preference which build is used. Being able to Rally + Eliminate everything is a charm of 119 STR (and it works nicely if you want to mix things up with Anticipate). I use 117 STR because weaving in the extra Scratch on Brilliant Psywurm and Mossy Cerdae offers an alternate skill "rotation" that generates more breath as a buffer for missing. Cutting out the Rally for those also reduces casting time. When Coliseum 2.0 comes out, I will re-take my speed tests because [url=http://www1.flightrising.com/forums/frd/2339944]buff animation time will be significantly reduced according to a very recent announcement by the devs[/url]. If they are reworking AGI to be better, the misses might also be reduced. These two changes combined would likely make the advantages of 117 STR go away, and I will likely shift to 119 STR after some conclusive testing. Here is my raw data from 2016 for speed tests. [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aKEeRltCfVv0DicdyfMUuF91j4XJz3MZd47cJl-P_y8/edit?usp=sharing]117 STR speed tests[/url] [url=https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MByeBZXLZr7zdRBLhQhHzO-MgMkxy0ZO2-Yml4-wg4E/edit?usp=sharing]119 STR speed tests[/url] Level 4 had 312 tests for 117 STR and 126 tests for 119 STR. The level 4 times for 117 STR and 119 STR, respectively, were 33 seconds vs. 32 seconds per dragon. Level 5 had 310 tests for 117 STR and 124 tests for 119 STR. The level 5 times for 117 STR and 119 STR were equal at 1 minute 10 seconds per dragon. Level 6 had 276 tests for 117 STR and 124 tests for 119 STR. The level 6 times for 117 STR and 119 STR were 1 minute 56 seconds vs. 1 minute 59 seconds per dragon. (I do more speed tests than these, but these are the most relevant to the current discussion.) I have found that it takes [i]at least[/i] 200 tests per level for the average times to not sway multiple seconds if RNG causes a particularly fast or particularly slow trial to get added to the average. There is also the caveat that these tests were taken in 2016, after the monster packs were "finalized" - no significant changes have been made to monsters from then till now - but before the Mire was bumped to the second page of the Coliseum, which very slightly affects refresh times. (If there is a difference between refresh frequency for 117 STR build and 119 STR build, this could manifest with the second page issue.) Anyway, I think both builds are equally good and it is fine for someone to use either build depending on their playstyle. :)

@Sylvandyr

Thanks for butting in, did some rethinking and you’re correct. That’s what I originally thought too before my friend convinced me otherwise. I did a test with lvl 20’s rally and it adds 100 dmg, so yes rally, haste, and all the other buff spells do add caster lvl + 5 to the receiving dragon’s stat. (So each stat point increase in STR only adds 4 dmg as I thought)

My main reason for thinking that this build is better is more for the sustainability of it. While lvling lower lvl fodder dragons have roughly equal times, it doesn’t account for the number of times you have to refresh when lvling higher levels. The rally + elim means that you heal your INT value guaranteed each battle if you rally elim instead of scratch elim, so I feel this helps stay in the Mire longer than if 117 STR were to be used. Of course, this doesn’t really matter in leveling fodder, but it’s food for thought ^-^||

@brokenstone Each stat point in STR adds 4 damage for certain skills like Scratch, yup :) When calculating with DEF or MND, there's a difference since every % (modulo) 3 is offset a bit for many of the equations. For Eliminate, a point of STR actually adds 12 damage and there is no % 3 to worry about in the DEF reduction; it removes 4 * DEF instead. Feel free to explore the skill formulae if interested!

When using the 119 STR build, I've found that the longevity issue occurs from misses rather than health remaining. It's really hard to recover from inopportune misses with lower breath generation, so when using the two builds side-by-side, I found that the 119 STR build tended to force more restarts. (This would especially be true when using Anticipate and not having the option to Scratch - survival would depend on whether you could build the breath back and finish that battle, and the Mire has a LOT of casters and two types with Contuse. Three of the casters have ultimates - Shroud, Congeal, Shock - that can prevent Eliminates from landing if their debuff happens.)

I still believe they're both good! 119 STR for the convenience, 117 STR for the potential recovery. Pluses and minuses. :)

[EDIT]: I'm so sorry, I forgot to mention that I would never use 117 STR with Anticipate! I think it was buried in my first post, but I mentioned it here confusingly and wanted to clarify. 119 STR would be required for an Anticipate build in the Mire.

@brokenstone

A question...

I have my Mire Flyer set up with 119 STR/69QCK and two Ambushes and am only getting two turns at the start of every round.

Am I doing something wrong?

@BlackWyld

Coliseum has a bug where the first ambush doesn't register. So your two turns are from 1 ambush stone and the QCK stat which allows you to get 1 turn in before the other monsters. To get around this, you can have another dragon in the first slot equipped with a single ambush, which eats up that bug, allowing your Mire Flyer to get in 3 turns.

You want to follow the 5th post if you only have 2 turns in the beginning (without ambush help)

@brokenstone

Thank you for the explanation. It was driving me nuts. LOL!

Bookmarking @florica