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Flight Rising Discussion

Discuss everything and anything Flight Rising.
TOPIC | worries/hopes about FR's art direction
[quote name="IceheartAnew" date="2024-06-09 01:09:24" ] [quote name="pheelthemoment" date="2024-06-08 23:49:46" ] Personally I have been hoping for more extra large breeds than just snappers since I joined in 2016. Me and others just have been more vocal about lately it because it IS more glaringly obvious they favor making skinny breeds since now they've had such a long and constant stream of them with ancients. And I don't get why people in this thread act like the fact there's people who dislike fat designs negates the fact there are plenty of people who DO want more diverse body types, a fact this thread clearly demonstrates there would be a lot of support and appreciation for. [/quote] Okay so I was trying to dodge around saying it but since we're being direct here: yeah it's pretty obvious people just don't want fat or bulky dragons. People keep saying they want a fat character, but their lairs are filled up with the super tiny and skinny dragons. Like, I [i]like[/i] many of the current designs of dragons and as I said in my post, my gripe with Snappers is their pose because I [i]adore[/i] Tomo and wish it were feasible to have an option for updated art for older breeds. But also like I said, I like Bogsneaks. And I like the idea of Ridgebacks being bulkier than their art implies thanks to Arvelle. But it's really no coincidence that the people that caused this shift are the ones who constantly buy the skinny dragons. We're not seeing any body diversity because of the same reason we see it in human characters. I remember being so excited to see the pudgy maren familiars when they first released, but now they're just...the only two. We're back to same old same old. And that applies to the dragons and the fact we're not seeing fat or bulky designs because the popular stuff is sleek, skinny, lithe, every synonymous adjective that exists etc. Like, I like auras partly because of the fact they're titanoboa dragons. They're HUGE and they're a noodle design that looks like it has weight behind it that spirals and undertides just don't have. But even they could stand to just be a bit bulkier, esp the male pose compared to the female one. Again, it comes down to the same things as it always done and it's frustrating that it's affecting [i]dragons[/i] of all things. But, here we are. Edit: also it doesn't escape me that Dusthides were like.....immediately slandered when they're frankly one of the more diverse bodies we've had in a while. And they're stout and a tiny bit chubby with big fat tails. [/quote] Have you considered: people's lairs are filled with skinny dragons because nearly every available breed is skinny? I love snappers but I'm not a monolair, I have things I like in most other breeds too. And I do in fact have many important fat characters in my lair - eg. [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/26930335]Moraine[/url], [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/23859305]Tamarind[/url], [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/28337603]Millie[/url], [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/61426705]Glacier[/url], [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/61225180]Charon[/url], and many others...what a weird accusation to make. Just because you don't make fat characters and fat characters aren't super visible on the site (because of a lack of fat breeds!) that apparently nobody actually makes fat characters?? Come on. And like the humanoid familiars are fairly irrelevant? I would like more body types of those too but they're such a small part of the game, I don't think I would describe any familiar as more popular than another lol. It's entirely on the artists for not drawing more varied humanoid familiars. Even if there were like one or two threads where people complained about the existence of fat characters why should we be catering to those people, is that really what you want and think flight rising should do? We can't hope Flight Rising will do better? and tbh yeah it's weird to bring Dusthides into this when most people's dislike of them was their head shape or hand shape, or the fact they have wings when they're an underground breed. Their body type that's very slightly bulkier than most other breeds wasn't the issue (aside from people hoping they would do something that strays further from the mold)
IceheartAnew wrote on 2024-06-09 01:09:24:
pheelthemoment wrote on 2024-06-08 23:49:46:

Personally I have been hoping for more extra large breeds than just snappers since I joined in 2016. Me and others just have been more vocal about lately it because it IS more glaringly obvious they favor making skinny breeds since now they've had such a long and constant stream of them with ancients.

And I don't get why people in this thread act like the fact there's people who dislike fat designs negates the fact there are plenty of people who DO want more diverse body types, a fact this thread clearly demonstrates there would be a lot of support and appreciation for.

Okay so I was trying to dodge around saying it but since we're being direct here: yeah it's pretty obvious people just don't want fat or bulky dragons. People keep saying they want a fat character, but their lairs are filled up with the super tiny and skinny dragons. Like, I like many of the current designs of dragons and as I said in my post, my gripe with Snappers is their pose because I adore Tomo and wish it were feasible to have an option for updated art for older breeds. But also like I said, I like Bogsneaks. And I like the idea of Ridgebacks being bulkier than their art implies thanks to Arvelle.

But it's really no coincidence that the people that caused this shift are the ones who constantly buy the skinny dragons. We're not seeing any body diversity because of the same reason we see it in human characters. I remember being so excited to see the pudgy maren familiars when they first released, but now they're just...the only two. We're back to same old same old. And that applies to the dragons and the fact we're not seeing fat or bulky designs because the popular stuff is sleek, skinny, lithe, every synonymous adjective that exists etc.

Like, I like auras partly because of the fact they're titanoboa dragons. They're HUGE and they're a noodle design that looks like it has weight behind it that spirals and undertides just don't have. But even they could stand to just be a bit bulkier, esp the male pose compared to the female one.

Again, it comes down to the same things as it always done and it's frustrating that it's affecting dragons of all things. But, here we are.

Edit: also it doesn't escape me that Dusthides were like.....immediately slandered when they're frankly one of the more diverse bodies we've had in a while. And they're stout and a tiny bit chubby with big fat tails.

Have you considered: people's lairs are filled with skinny dragons because nearly every available breed is skinny? I love snappers but I'm not a monolair, I have things I like in most other breeds too. And I do in fact have many important fat characters in my lair - eg. Moraine, Tamarind, Millie, Glacier, Charon, and many others...what a weird accusation to make. Just because you don't make fat characters and fat characters aren't super visible on the site (because of a lack of fat breeds!) that apparently nobody actually makes fat characters?? Come on.

And like the humanoid familiars are fairly irrelevant? I would like more body types of those too but they're such a small part of the game, I don't think I would describe any familiar as more popular than another lol. It's entirely on the artists for not drawing more varied humanoid familiars. Even if there were like one or two threads where people complained about the existence of fat characters why should we be catering to those people, is that really what you want and think flight rising should do? We can't hope Flight Rising will do better?

and tbh yeah it's weird to bring Dusthides into this when most people's dislike of them was their head shape or hand shape, or the fact they have wings when they're an underground breed. Their body type that's very slightly bulkier than most other breeds wasn't the issue (aside from people hoping they would do something that strays further from the mold)
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Seeing people’s responses to this thread is only reminding me of people’s reactions to two other things… Modern paleontology and oc cycles. Yes. Those two completely unrelated things. In both those spaces, I always see the same complains, the same excuses. When you call out oc artists for only showing the same skinny body type you’re always met with the response of not being able to make interesting poses or cool silhouettes with fat/bulky characters. That’s definitely NOT the case. People just don’t want to actually [i]try[/i]. And now this comes to dinosaurs and prehistoric animals in general. A really big and important part of paleontology is what we call paleoart, and as the name suggests it’s an artistic visualization of what those extinct animals and landscapes might’ve looked like. The issue here is that old paleoart really tend to neglect soft tissues such as muscle and fat, which lead to a very common depiction of those animals like this: [img]https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71P9t2yWt-L.jpg[/img] [img]https://www.atlasvirtual.com.br/jpg/velociraptormongoliensis5.jpg[/img] This is what dinosaurs look like in people's imagination, and it heavily influences dragon designs, even if subconsciously. However, modern paleontology has been pushing away from that, which has led to depictions that reflect what they were like much better [img]https://i0.wp.com/bcc-newspack.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2020/07/DY3A4831.jpg[/img] [img]https://i.imgur.com/51WcCwV.jpeg[/img] And you know what kind of response I see to this sort of art when it breaches out of paleontology spaces to the wide public? That they're not cool, that they're not scary, that they're too fat. It's just... disheartening to see that the average person immediate response to any design slightly bigger than what they're used to is to call it boring and uncool. Sorry if I'm too salty, I'm just tired of seeing the same argument over and over
Seeing people’s responses to this thread is only reminding me of people’s reactions to two other things… Modern paleontology and oc cycles. Yes. Those two completely unrelated things.

In both those spaces, I always see the same complains, the same excuses. When you call out oc artists for only showing the same skinny body type you’re always met with the response of not being able to make interesting poses or cool silhouettes with fat/bulky characters. That’s definitely NOT the case. People just don’t want to actually try.

And now this comes to dinosaurs and prehistoric animals in general. A really big and important part of paleontology is what we call paleoart, and as the name suggests it’s an artistic visualization of what those extinct animals and landscapes might’ve looked like. The issue here is that old paleoart really tend to neglect soft tissues such as muscle and fat, which lead to a very common depiction of those animals like this:
71P9t2yWt-L.jpg
velociraptormongoliensis5.jpg
This is what dinosaurs look like in people's imagination, and it heavily influences dragon designs, even if subconsciously.
However, modern paleontology has been pushing away from that, which has led to depictions that reflect what they were like much better
DY3A4831.jpg
51WcCwV.jpeg
And you know what kind of response I see to this sort of art when it breaches out of paleontology spaces to the wide public? That they're not cool, that they're not scary, that they're too fat.

It's just... disheartening to see that the average person immediate response to any design slightly bigger than what they're used to is to call it boring and uncool. Sorry if I'm too salty, I'm just tired of seeing the same argument over and over

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wow, i’ve never even noticed just how similar all these ancients are in terms of body build and face shape even though their whole thing was to push these boundaries… it’s sad. I adore big chunky dragons. id own a snapper if i could dress it properly lol, and i have a huge fondness for bogsneaks. i was really hoping earth would bring us a big chunky ancient, but not yet. and i doubt light and wind would do anything like that.

edit: and seeing all the ‘of course they look the same if reduced to shapes’ is such a heavy facepalm… thats not how it works ! ;-;
wow, i’ve never even noticed just how similar all these ancients are in terms of body build and face shape even though their whole thing was to push these boundaries… it’s sad. I adore big chunky dragons. id own a snapper if i could dress it properly lol, and i have a huge fondness for bogsneaks. i was really hoping earth would bring us a big chunky ancient, but not yet. and i doubt light and wind would do anything like that.

edit: and seeing all the ‘of course they look the same if reduced to shapes’ is such a heavy facepalm… thats not how it works ! ;-;
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This post has articulated exactly what I’ve felt about Flight Rising for the last year or so. I absolutely love the game and its dragon designs, but something about the newer ancients has actually felt kind of rushed to me, especially when something like the Dusthides share this body plan issue. The Auraboa isn’t snakey enough - the Undertide doesn’t look like an aquatic animal - the Sandsurge is awesome, but loses a bit of punch next to its semi-noodle ancient relatives. These are just my opinions and I still love all the designs, but taking more direct inspiration from nature is my personal passion when it comes to design. If Auraboas are arboreal, they should maybe be like heavily-built tree boas or maybe have the ability to flatten their ribs for flexibility. The Undertide, as you proposed, should take more of its eel-like qualities into its design and should probably also have more fin-like wings. Diversity in silhouettes is something FR has been needing, and it’s bizarre to me that it’s seemingly been lacking more than usual. I think you’re onto something with breeds like Bogsneaks being less popular, but they have such a good silhouette and no other dragon looks like them! I worry that these design choices may carry ahead so people can keep having ‘cute’ or ‘cool’ dragons when I love FR for its diversity and semi-realist ‘dragons as animals’ approach.
This post has articulated exactly what I’ve felt about Flight Rising for the last year or so. I absolutely love the game and its dragon designs, but something about the newer ancients has actually felt kind of rushed to me, especially when something like the Dusthides share this body plan issue. The Auraboa isn’t snakey enough - the Undertide doesn’t look like an aquatic animal - the Sandsurge is awesome, but loses a bit of punch next to its semi-noodle ancient relatives. These are just my opinions and I still love all the designs, but taking more direct inspiration from nature is my personal passion when it comes to design. If Auraboas are arboreal, they should maybe be like heavily-built tree boas or maybe have the ability to flatten their ribs for flexibility. The Undertide, as you proposed, should take more of its eel-like qualities into its design and should probably also have more fin-like wings. Diversity in silhouettes is something FR has been needing, and it’s bizarre to me that it’s seemingly been lacking more than usual. I think you’re onto something with breeds like Bogsneaks being less popular, but they have such a good silhouette and no other dragon looks like them! I worry that these design choices may carry ahead so people can keep having ‘cute’ or ‘cool’ dragons when I love FR for its diversity and semi-realist ‘dragons as animals’ approach.
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im sorry is anyone else just not shocked at all that character designs look the same when you strip them down to their most constituent shapes or am i just being a sourpuss about this post
im sorry is anyone else just not shocked at all that character designs look the same when you strip them down to their most constituent shapes or am i just being a sourpuss about this post
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I am a chonky/stocky design enjoyer!

One thing that stands out to me though is folks mentioning how most designs are skinny, and that made me think - we do not really have a very skinny/bony design either! A very bony plague ancient could be fun to see. Also would be hilarious if wind ancient was something akin to a vinesnake.
I am a chonky/stocky design enjoyer!

One thing that stands out to me though is folks mentioning how most designs are skinny, and that made me think - we do not really have a very skinny/bony design either! A very bony plague ancient could be fun to see. Also would be hilarious if wind ancient was something akin to a vinesnake.
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PheeltheMoment makes a great point! Someone using the "skinny" breeds can still envision them as fat in their lore (I do that too). We shouldn't be limited to just the canonically fat breeds to represent fat characters, but that doesn't mean we still can't have more canon representation.

The only reason I don't use snappers is because I find their design too plain compared to others, nothing to do with their body type. And there's nothing wrong with a simple design, it's just my preference. But it doesn't help that snappers are like the only(? unless you count bogsneaks as well) fat breed. There's no variety in what little representation there is. There's basically no other choices if someone specifically wanted a fat breed, but may not be a fan of them because of qualities unrelated to body type. Of course that's not true for everyone, but representation should still exist despite what the "popularity" of what little we have is.

(Aside from my point, Paleogene also brings up wonderful points and I would love a fat dino dragon <3)
PheeltheMoment makes a great point! Someone using the "skinny" breeds can still envision them as fat in their lore (I do that too). We shouldn't be limited to just the canonically fat breeds to represent fat characters, but that doesn't mean we still can't have more canon representation.

The only reason I don't use snappers is because I find their design too plain compared to others, nothing to do with their body type. And there's nothing wrong with a simple design, it's just my preference. But it doesn't help that snappers are like the only(? unless you count bogsneaks as well) fat breed. There's no variety in what little representation there is. There's basically no other choices if someone specifically wanted a fat breed, but may not be a fan of them because of qualities unrelated to body type. Of course that's not true for everyone, but representation should still exist despite what the "popularity" of what little we have is.

(Aside from my point, Paleogene also brings up wonderful points and I would love a fat dino dragon <3)
[quote name="CeriothOfCinders" date="2024-06-09 07:58:17" ] One thing that stands out to me though is folks mentioning how most designs are skinny, and that made me think - we do not really have a very skinny/bony design either! [/quote] ^^ This. Most designs are actually middle ground. I hope the Wind Ancient looks like an even thinner longer Borzoi. Spirals are the thinnest dragon we have imo, I'd like to see one even narrower at some point!
CeriothOfCinders wrote on 2024-06-09 07:58:17:
One thing that stands out to me though is folks mentioning how most designs are skinny, and that made me think - we do not really have a very skinny/bony design either!

^^ This. Most designs are actually middle ground. I hope the Wind Ancient looks like an even thinner longer Borzoi. Spirals are the thinnest dragon we have imo, I'd like to see one even narrower at some point!
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wanna say that this is really nice analysis of character design :>
wanna say that this is really nice analysis of character design :>
It's really bizarre reading the responses that distill the unpopularity of some breeds down to "dragon too fat/weird so people don't like it".

I'm sure that's the actual reason in some cases, but there's a bit more to any given breed than its dimensions. I have no snappers and likely never will. That has nothing to do with them being chunky and everything to do with the fact that I cannot escape the thought that they look like someone tore the shell off a turtle when I look at them and that makes my flesh crawl.

There are so many factors that go into why a person might like or dislike a breed. Blaming its body shape alone is disingenuous.

Options for rounder bodied dragons are extremely few, yes. And what that means is, if there's something about one of those few choices that you really don't like, you're kind of out of luck in terms of bodyshape variety in your lair. People's lairs tend to be filled with svelte options because that is what the vast majority of your choices are.

I'd like to see some like the fairytale-ish designs in the vein of some that were posted earlier in the thread, personally. And more unusual face shapes. I've been trying to like ridgebacks because the noses are great, but the poses are just so stiff. If they were drawn as well as Arvelle is I'd likely have 20.
It's really bizarre reading the responses that distill the unpopularity of some breeds down to "dragon too fat/weird so people don't like it".

I'm sure that's the actual reason in some cases, but there's a bit more to any given breed than its dimensions. I have no snappers and likely never will. That has nothing to do with them being chunky and everything to do with the fact that I cannot escape the thought that they look like someone tore the shell off a turtle when I look at them and that makes my flesh crawl.

There are so many factors that go into why a person might like or dislike a breed. Blaming its body shape alone is disingenuous.

Options for rounder bodied dragons are extremely few, yes. And what that means is, if there's something about one of those few choices that you really don't like, you're kind of out of luck in terms of bodyshape variety in your lair. People's lairs tend to be filled with svelte options because that is what the vast majority of your choices are.

I'd like to see some like the fairytale-ish designs in the vein of some that were posted earlier in the thread, personally. And more unusual face shapes. I've been trying to like ridgebacks because the noses are great, but the poses are just so stiff. If they were drawn as well as Arvelle is I'd likely have 20.
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