@
pippatis-
See but the thing is they didn’t do it well. They made a story about a species made by god(s) to spread their power and kill “hordes of inferior beings” to claim land for their god(s) (starting to sound familiar?) and then
we as players as supposed to sympathize with this species. The beast clans become just another way to spice up the story. I cannot tell you how close my connection is to these sorts of narratives because it would break site rules but this is a narrative that practically half the world is a victim of. I’m not saying we shouldn’t write about these things, the opposite actually I think that doing proper research on these topics will bring people closer together if anything but the way it was used here was as a cheap way to make conflict.
@
pippatis-
See but the thing is they didn’t do it well. They made a story about a species made by god(s) to spread their power and kill “hordes of inferior beings” to claim land for their god(s) (starting to sound familiar?) and then
we as players as supposed to sympathize with this species. The beast clans become just another way to spice up the story. I cannot tell you how close my connection is to these sorts of narratives because it would break site rules but this is a narrative that practically half the world is a victim of. I’m not saying we shouldn’t write about these things, the opposite actually I think that doing proper research on these topics will bring people closer together if anything but the way it was used here was as a cheap way to make conflict.
[quote name="Aequorin" date="2022-12-15 06:39:02" ]
[quote name="Pippatis" date="2022-12-15 06:24:27" ]
All I hope for, though, is that you did not do it because you felt pressured to do so by a subset of the community. Of course, I don't know what the answer to that is, but I just wanted to put it out there.
[/quote]
@Pippatis, it is [b][url=https://flightrising.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005879886-Harassment#h_01G4G0KCB8ZY0SVXNQTYC875DK]not okay[/url][/b] to make coded references towards minoritized and marginalized people. This is our decision and targeting or disparaging other players for bringing this to our attention is not okay.
And to be clear: the [I]Flight Rising[/I] community members who first brought this to our attention [b]were correct and right[/b] to do so. Thank you for understanding.
[/quote]
It was never my intention to call anyone out or target anyone at all. No matter what race or culture people have, they can agree on many things, as they have. Sometimes these beliefs are harmful to others, as you've so aptly pointed out, and that's all I meant to reiterate.
I just wanted to make sure that you, the team, haven't also been harmed.
Aequorin wrote on 2022-12-15 06:39:02:
Pippatis wrote on 2022-12-15 06:24:27:
All I hope for, though, is that you did not do it because you felt pressured to do so by a subset of the community. Of course, I don't know what the answer to that is, but I just wanted to put it out there.
@
Pippatis, it is
not okay to make coded references towards minoritized and marginalized people. This is our decision and targeting or disparaging other players for bringing this to our attention is not okay.
And to be clear: the
Flight Rising community members who first brought this to our attention
were correct and right to do so. Thank you for understanding.
It was never my intention to call anyone out or target anyone at all. No matter what race or culture people have, they can agree on many things, as they have. Sometimes these beliefs are harmful to others, as you've so aptly pointed out, and that's all I meant to reiterate.
I just wanted to make sure that you, the team, haven't also been harmed.
[quote name="Pippatis" date="2022-12-15 06:24:27" ]
[quote name="Aequorin" date="2022-12-15 06:10:06" ]
Hello @Pippatis. It is not censorship when we are the ones making the change ourselves to our own story on our own website. Please [b][url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/ann/3193191/38#post_52948297]read Undel's reply[/url][/b], as she covers the issue of conflict and why we made this change. Thank you.
[/quote]
Thank you for answering. I understand, and I appreciate that you are not erasing all evidence of past deeds from the site. I of course can live with it if this is genuinely what you and the team wanted to do because you changed your minds and intentions about your story - it happens all the time, and as it should! It's your intellectual property.
All I hope for, though, is that you did not do it because you felt pressured to do so by a subset of the community. Of course, I don't know what the answer to that is, but I just wanted to put it out there.
[/quote]
I truly do not mean this in an antagonistic fashion, but the way you're using 'subset of the community' and 'just putting it out there' sounds like a not terribly subtle way of rephrasing 'did the woke minority bully you into doing this', and assumes that the minority and not the majority of users in general are okay with this (which, from the comments, most people are) and that none of the staff are in this 'subset' themselves (also a not super great assumption). Please consider that talking like this alienates people who deserve to feel comfortable and respected here just as much as you do.
I'm not in any kind of racial minority, but I know it matters very much to me that even 'subsets' of people can enjoy a nice fantasy game (even one with blood and conflict!) without just recycling old harmful tropes.
Pippatis wrote on 2022-12-15 06:24:27:
Aequorin wrote on 2022-12-15 06:10:06:
Hello @
Pippatis. It is not censorship when we are the ones making the change ourselves to our own story on our own website. Please
read Undel's reply, as she covers the issue of conflict and why we made this change. Thank you.
Thank you for answering. I understand, and I appreciate that you are not erasing all evidence of past deeds from the site. I of course can live with it if this is genuinely what you and the team wanted to do because you changed your minds and intentions about your story - it happens all the time, and as it should! It's your intellectual property.
All I hope for, though, is that you did not do it because you felt pressured to do so by a subset of the community. Of course, I don't know what the answer to that is, but I just wanted to put it out there.
I truly do not mean this in an antagonistic fashion, but the way you're using 'subset of the community' and 'just putting it out there' sounds like a not terribly subtle way of rephrasing 'did the woke minority bully you into doing this', and assumes that the minority and not the majority of users in general are okay with this (which, from the comments, most people are) and that none of the staff are in this 'subset' themselves (also a not super great assumption). Please consider that talking like this alienates people who deserve to feel comfortable and respected here just as much as you do.
I'm not in any kind of racial minority, but I know it matters very much to me that even 'subsets' of people can enjoy a nice fantasy game (even one with blood and conflict!) without just recycling old harmful tropes.
I'm just stoked about this, that's it. That's all I have to say.
I'm just stoked about this, that's it. That's all I have to say.
Hey dev team!
Thank you for doing this, thank you for educating yourselves and striving to be, not only better people, but having a more considerate place for POC-- more specifically cultures who have their whole identity ruined by colonization. Thank you for listening to their voices.
You guys are gonna get non-poc (and those 1% of poc who always claim to be unaffected) telling you the usual crap change(I see the same excuses all the time in the games and comics circles) but also seeing you all fight them/ignore them is really good. That's how you fight ignorance to those who refuse to understand.
-From one of your POC players (black) CoatlCreed.
Hey dev team!
Thank you for doing this, thank you for educating yourselves and striving to be, not only better people, but having a more considerate place for POC-- more specifically cultures who have their whole identity ruined by colonization. Thank you for listening to their voices.
You guys are gonna get non-poc (and those 1% of poc who always claim to be unaffected) telling you the usual crap change(I see the same excuses all the time in the games and comics circles) but also seeing you all fight them/ignore them is really good. That's how you fight ignorance to those who refuse to understand.
-From one of your POC players (black) CoatlCreed.
[quote name="Harrowdawn" date="2022-12-15 06:44:13" ]
I truly do not mean this in an antagonistic fashion, but the way you're using 'subset of the community' and 'just putting it out there' sounds like a not terribly subtle way of rephrasing 'did the woke minority bully you into doing this', and assumes that the minority and not the majority of users in general are okay with this (which, from the comments, most people are) and that none of the staff are in this 'subset' themselves (also a not super great assumption). Please consider that talking like this alienates people who deserve to feel comfortable and respected here just as much as you do.
I'm not in any kind of racial minority, but I know it matters very much to me that even 'subsets' of people can enjoy a nice fantasy game (even one with blood and conflict!) without just recycling old harmful tropes.
[/quote]
That's fair. I apologize for my poor word choice. I think all of us belong to subsets in some way. I can't claim to know how to speak my thoughts effectively, and I want to thank you for your criticism.
I do still think that the game itself hasn't been harmed, that the devs have every right to change their story as their intentions do. You've caught me, and I'll admit, I suppose that all I wanted to do was... ask. I did that poorly.
Harrowdawn wrote on 2022-12-15 06:44:13:
I truly do not mean this in an antagonistic fashion, but the way you're using 'subset of the community' and 'just putting it out there' sounds like a not terribly subtle way of rephrasing 'did the woke minority bully you into doing this', and assumes that the minority and not the majority of users in general are okay with this (which, from the comments, most people are) and that none of the staff are in this 'subset' themselves (also a not super great assumption). Please consider that talking like this alienates people who deserve to feel comfortable and respected here just as much as you do.
I'm not in any kind of racial minority, but I know it matters very much to me that even 'subsets' of people can enjoy a nice fantasy game (even one with blood and conflict!) without just recycling old harmful tropes.
That's fair. I apologize for my poor word choice. I think all of us belong to subsets in some way. I can't claim to know how to speak my thoughts effectively, and I want to thank you for your criticism.
I do still think that the game itself hasn't been harmed, that the devs have every right to change their story as their intentions do. You've caught me, and I'll admit, I suppose that all I wanted to do was... ask. I did that poorly.
[quote name="Pippatis" date="2022-12-15 06:49:24" ]
[quote name="Harrowdawn" date="2022-12-15 06:44:13" ]
I truly do not mean this in an antagonistic fashion, but the way you're using 'subset of the community' and 'just putting it out there' sounds like a not terribly subtle way of rephrasing 'did the woke minority bully you into doing this', and assumes that the minority and not the majority of users in general are okay with this (which, from the comments, most people are) and that none of the staff are in this 'subset' themselves (also a not super great assumption). Please consider that talking like this alienates people who deserve to feel comfortable and respected here just as much as you do.
I'm not in any kind of racial minority, but I know it matters very much to me that even 'subsets' of people can enjoy a nice fantasy game (even one with blood and conflict!) without just recycling old harmful tropes.
[/quote]
That's fair. I apologize for my poor word choice. I think all of us belong to subsets in some way. I can't claim to know how to speak my thoughts effectively, and I want to thank you for your criticism.
I do still think that the game itself hasn't been harmed, that the devs have every right to change their story as their intentions do. You've caught me, and I'll admit, I suppose that all I wanted to do was... ask. I did that poorly.
[/quote]
@Pippatis, thank you.
Pippatis wrote on 2022-12-15 06:49:24:
Harrowdawn wrote on 2022-12-15 06:44:13:
I truly do not mean this in an antagonistic fashion, but the way you're using 'subset of the community' and 'just putting it out there' sounds like a not terribly subtle way of rephrasing 'did the woke minority bully you into doing this', and assumes that the minority and not the majority of users in general are okay with this (which, from the comments, most people are) and that none of the staff are in this 'subset' themselves (also a not super great assumption). Please consider that talking like this alienates people who deserve to feel comfortable and respected here just as much as you do.
I'm not in any kind of racial minority, but I know it matters very much to me that even 'subsets' of people can enjoy a nice fantasy game (even one with blood and conflict!) without just recycling old harmful tropes.
That's fair. I apologize for my poor word choice. I think all of us belong to subsets in some way. I can't claim to know how to speak my thoughts effectively, and I want to thank you for your criticism.
I do still think that the game itself hasn't been harmed, that the devs have every right to change their story as their intentions do. You've caught me, and I'll admit, I suppose that all I wanted to do was... ask. I did that poorly.
@
Pippatis, thank you.
[quote name="Undel" date="2022-12-14 10:46:46" ]
In addition, we have added new harpy familiars that feature the everyday lives of harpies, and a new scene depicting a harpy city. These items will be stocking in the [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/market]treasure marketplace[/url], and also have a chance to drop from iron & gilded chests and [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/trading/pinkpile]Pinkerton's Pile[/url]. The treasure marketplace stock has been increased for one week, after which time these new familiars and the scene will stock at the same rate as other familiars and scenes.
[center][item=stormcloud miller][item=windcarve miller][item=Harpy Artisan][item=mesacliff painter]
[item=scene: harpy city][/center]
[/quote]
Just noticed something a bit confusing: [i]Does[/i] the scene have a chance to drop from chests? I was considering opening my stash [s]because man I love that scene[/s] but [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/game-database/item/48120]the game database[/url] only lists it as available in the MP. I also checked the database for the familiars, and they're only listed as dropping from Gilded chests.
Undel wrote on 2022-12-14 10:46:46:
In addition, we have added new harpy familiars that feature the everyday lives of harpies, and a new scene depicting a harpy city. These items will be stocking in the
treasure marketplace, and also have a chance to drop from iron & gilded chests and
Pinkerton's Pile. The treasure marketplace stock has been increased for one week, after which time these new familiars and the scene will stock at the same rate as other familiars and scenes.
Just noticed something a bit confusing:
Does the scene have a chance to drop from chests? I was considering opening my stash
because man I love that scene but
the game database only lists it as available in the MP. I also checked the database for the familiars, and they're only listed as dropping from Gilded chests.
!! signature under construction !!
[quote name="Pippatis" date="2022-12-15 06:49:24" ]
[quote name="Harrowdawn" date="2022-12-15 06:44:13" ]
I truly do not mean this in an antagonistic fashion, but the way you're using 'subset of the community' and 'just putting it out there' sounds like a not terribly subtle way of rephrasing 'did the woke minority bully you into doing this', and assumes that the minority and not the majority of users in general are okay with this (which, from the comments, most people are) and that none of the staff are in this 'subset' themselves (also a not super great assumption). Please consider that talking like this alienates people who deserve to feel comfortable and respected here just as much as you do.
I'm not in any kind of racial minority, but I know it matters very much to me that even 'subsets' of people can enjoy a nice fantasy game (even one with blood and conflict!) without just recycling old harmful tropes.
[/quote]
That's fair. I apologize for my poor word choice. I think all of us belong to subsets in some way. I can't claim to know how to speak my thoughts effectively, and I want to thank you for your criticism.
I do still think that the game itself hasn't been harmed, that the devs have every right to change their story as their intentions do. You've caught me, and I'll admit, I suppose that all I wanted to do was... ask. I did that poorly.
[/quote]
I appreciate your willingness to listen in good faith, I think FR is still one of the better places to find people who are willing to do that.
Pippatis wrote on 2022-12-15 06:49:24:
Harrowdawn wrote on 2022-12-15 06:44:13:
I truly do not mean this in an antagonistic fashion, but the way you're using 'subset of the community' and 'just putting it out there' sounds like a not terribly subtle way of rephrasing 'did the woke minority bully you into doing this', and assumes that the minority and not the majority of users in general are okay with this (which, from the comments, most people are) and that none of the staff are in this 'subset' themselves (also a not super great assumption). Please consider that talking like this alienates people who deserve to feel comfortable and respected here just as much as you do.
I'm not in any kind of racial minority, but I know it matters very much to me that even 'subsets' of people can enjoy a nice fantasy game (even one with blood and conflict!) without just recycling old harmful tropes.
That's fair. I apologize for my poor word choice. I think all of us belong to subsets in some way. I can't claim to know how to speak my thoughts effectively, and I want to thank you for your criticism.
I do still think that the game itself hasn't been harmed, that the devs have every right to change their story as their intentions do. You've caught me, and I'll admit, I suppose that all I wanted to do was... ask. I did that poorly.
I appreciate your willingness to listen in good faith, I think FR is still one of the better places to find people who are willing to do that.
I just wanted to return to this thread to say that I didn't realize how incredibly reluctant I was to associate Beastclans (and Miths, Kitsune, Dryads, Aviar, Sprangyroo, Manticore, as well as Sphinx plus others I missed) as familiars with dragons because it felt wrong and I couldn't place my finger on why. Having Beastclans and the other groups I associate with Beastclans as well felt like dragons were keeping sapient beings with cultures/histories in Beastclan zoos (like infamous human zoos) while committing ethnocide and genocide.
Today I tentatively began switching up awakened for various Beastclan and it felt so refreshing to know Beastclan and dragons are like best friends, pen pals, trading merchants, artisans and consumers etc. It also opened up lots of complex relations with opportunities for alliances + cooperation and conflicts, tentative/wary tensions, and fluctuating economic/political/religious/ethnic relations. It is a relieving breath of fresh air and expands the diversity of Flight Rising lore! I can't wait to develop Berrur and Fangorn's new backstories!
I just wanted to return to this thread to say that I didn't realize how incredibly reluctant I was to associate Beastclans (and Miths, Kitsune, Dryads, Aviar, Sprangyroo, Manticore, as well as Sphinx plus others I missed) as familiars with dragons because it felt wrong and I couldn't place my finger on why. Having Beastclans and the other groups I associate with Beastclans as well felt like dragons were keeping sapient beings with cultures/histories in Beastclan zoos (like infamous human zoos) while committing ethnocide and genocide.
Today I tentatively began switching up awakened for various Beastclan and it felt so refreshing to know Beastclan and dragons are like best friends, pen pals, trading merchants, artisans and consumers etc. It also opened up lots of complex relations with opportunities for alliances + cooperation and conflicts, tentative/wary tensions, and fluctuating economic/political/religious/ethnic relations. It is a relieving breath of fresh air and expands the diversity of Flight Rising lore! I can't wait to develop Berrur and Fangorn's new backstories!
