[quote name="Canisa" date="2022-12-15 05:58:54" ]
Sigh. Really? Someone complained about Dragons being Dragons and we lost a whole lore line as a result? Is the Coliseum next? After all, Dragons attack creatures there too...and quite viciously at that. Eliminate, anyone?
Honestly, when did we forgot that dragons are NOT humans? Whatever anyone may think of what happened during colonization of various countries across the world--and yes, some of that was bad--that was between two groups of the SAME SPECIES. Dragons fighting and attacking Harpys, Maren, Serthis, etc is NOT the same thing. And Dragons are, by nature, vicious and bloodthirsty. Why would anyone who joined a game about them be startled by that?
If you want to have a bunch of Beastclans working with the dragons, fine. It might be interesting to see Beastclan Trading Post spots and Beastclan alliances. But please, don't take away the other side of things. There SHOULD be fights, conflict, and anger. After all, no world is perfect, and everyone getting along is wildly unrealistic, especially when the dominant race is dragons.
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I mean, there is still conflict! The harpy page states that their relationship with the wind flight is pretty complex. Things aren't all sunshine and rainbows, I think staff just wanted to go at this from a different angle that doesn't come off as fantasy colonization.
Additionally, these are dragons, sure, but they're their own thing too! They aren't just vicious bloodthirsty monsters. They have their own differing cultures and varied ways of life. They have their own civilizations! If they can cooperate with one another, they can cooperate with beast clans.
Sigh. Really? Someone complained about Dragons being Dragons and we lost a whole lore line as a result? Is the Coliseum next? After all, Dragons attack creatures there too...and quite viciously at that. Eliminate, anyone?
Honestly, when did we forgot that dragons are NOT humans? Whatever anyone may think of what happened during colonization of various countries across the world--and yes, some of that was bad--that was between two groups of the SAME SPECIES. Dragons fighting and attacking Harpys, Maren, Serthis, etc is NOT the same thing. And Dragons are, by nature, vicious and bloodthirsty. Why would anyone who joined a game about them be startled by that?
If you want to have a bunch of Beastclans working with the dragons, fine. It might be interesting to see Beastclan Trading Post spots and Beastclan alliances. But please, don't take away the other side of things. There SHOULD be fights, conflict, and anger. After all, no world is perfect, and everyone getting along is wildly unrealistic, especially when the dominant race is dragons.
I mean, there is still conflict! The harpy page states that their relationship with the wind flight is pretty complex. Things aren't all sunshine and rainbows, I think staff just wanted to go at this from a different angle that doesn't come off as fantasy colonization.
Additionally, these are dragons, sure, but they're their own thing too! They aren't just vicious bloodthirsty monsters. They have their own differing cultures and varied ways of life. They have their own civilizations! If they can cooperate with one another, they can cooperate with beast clans.
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22
Venex
they/them _^___^
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Books: They have the power to convey knowledge, skills, and stories! They also have the power to flatten plants.
22
This is why I always failed literature analysis. I always saw dragons as more of a parallel to humankind, rather than Europeans. I saw the lore as a creative warning of the wanton destruction of nature for the sake of having more and the response nature will have (in this case, "nature" is represented by beastclans). Colonialism never crossed my mind. It makes me feel a little weird, to be honest. It makes me uncomfortable that even if it wasn't intentionally meant to be about colonialism, that the devs saw that was a valid interpretation. I don't know. Maybe I'm the strange one for not seeing the way most people interpreted it.
This is why I always failed literature analysis. I always saw dragons as more of a parallel to humankind, rather than Europeans. I saw the lore as a creative warning of the wanton destruction of nature for the sake of having more and the response nature will have (in this case, "nature" is represented by beastclans). Colonialism never crossed my mind. It makes me feel a little weird, to be honest. It makes me uncomfortable that even if it wasn't intentionally meant to be about colonialism, that the devs saw that was a valid interpretation. I don't know. Maybe I'm the strange one for not seeing the way most people interpreted it.
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Now that the thread's unlocked again, I'd like to say it really is a good update! The adjustments to the lore over the years were alright, but if the decision is to start over with a better outlook, then it's a great decision.
Gotta say though, the Harpy lore does make me wish for a spinoff with beastclan lairs :P
That said, I mentioned this on FRD already, but what will become of the Eye of Talona familiar? ([item=eye of talona])
While the other Joxar beastclans can change descriptions, their whole design and theme is based on pre-retcon lore, unless some harpies specialized in glowing eye spells.
Now that the thread's unlocked again, I'd like to say it really is a good update! The adjustments to the lore over the years were alright, but if the decision is to start over with a better outlook, then it's a great decision.
Gotta say though, the Harpy lore does make me wish for a spinoff with beastclan lairs :P
That said, I mentioned this on FRD already, but what will become of the Eye of Talona familiar? (
Eye of Talona
Familiar
These deceitful harpies claim to be representatives of Talona, striking out to forge alliances with dragonkind. Little do many know that they are actually talented spies seeking to benefit from conflict.
0
)
While the other Joxar beastclans can change descriptions, their whole design and theme is based on pre-retcon lore, unless some harpies specialized in glowing eye spells.
May as well add in my two cents.
I can see why the Devs did this. They've been pushing to trend the lore toward younger kid-friendly content within the spectrum of PG-13 for years. It is their game so whatever they decide is canon is their prerogative.
Do I find this change enriching to the lore? No, the rewritten lore is some of the most inflexible and dull content I've seen in a while. Coming off of the hype of the Undertide lore, I've found this disappointing. Do I think this lore change is beneficial to others? Maybe, depends on the style of a user's gameplay and theme of other user's clan lore. Should we expect more changes like this? Yes, the Devs will do whatever they think is best for their business. The majority of the response are positive so that is where the Devs will go moving forward.
I can see why the Devs did this. They've been pushing to trend the lore toward younger kid-friendly content within the spectrum of PG-13 for years. It is their game so whatever they decide is canon is their prerogative.
Do I find this change enriching to the lore? No, the rewritten lore is some of the most inflexible and dull content I've seen in a while. Coming off of the hype of the Undertide lore, I've found this disappointing. Do I think this lore change is beneficial to others? Maybe, depends on the style of a user's gameplay and theme of other user's clan lore. Should we expect more changes like this? Yes, the Devs will do whatever they think is best for their business. The majority of the response are positive so that is where the Devs will go moving forward.
[quote name="Unrest" date="2022-12-15 06:27:43" ]
I just want to add some perspective from the other side as a poc. It [b]hurts[/b] when your family's history, when your country's history, is used as a way to provide just some seasoning or conflict to a story, especially a story about pg-13 dragons. The parallels are there, and fiction does impact reality. I don't think we should censor, but simultaneously not all stories are everyone's to tell, and while you can technically write anything down and send it out into the great wide world there are people there on the other side consuming these stories. People need to be educated on these topics but this isn’t a topic that just anyone has the skill or experience to handle respectfully the way that it should be.
The parallels to real world colonialism were very real, and it left a bad taste in many people's mouths. There are so many other ways to add fun conflict and depth to this world that don't have to do with large scale tragedy. This isn't censorship, this is a team maturing and realizing that this wasn't a story they wanted to tell anymore, nor was this sort of narrative the type of narrative one that was theirs to tell. They were not equipped with the sensitivity or experiences to properly tell it either. I'm glad they retconned it for a fresh start.
It hurts when the game you love so much has this aspect of such personal tragedy, and we lose nothing in this silly dragon.png game by the devs choosing to take another direction with their story
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Yes, I understand that as well, but at the same time, never were the FR team trying to claim they were any sort of authority on the subject. They were just trying to make a story about fantastical dragons and creatures, and personally, I thought they did it quite well.
Stories are always subject to change, of course, and you're right, it's not as if we've lost anything in their decision. Our intentions change all the time in life, I guess I was just worried about somewhat different implications at the time of writing my initial message. I apologize for my outburst.
I just want to add some perspective from the other side as a poc. It hurts when your family's history, when your country's history, is used as a way to provide just some seasoning or conflict to a story, especially a story about pg-13 dragons. The parallels are there, and fiction does impact reality. I don't think we should censor, but simultaneously not all stories are everyone's to tell, and while you can technically write anything down and send it out into the great wide world there are people there on the other side consuming these stories. People need to be educated on these topics but this isn’t a topic that just anyone has the skill or experience to handle respectfully the way that it should be.
The parallels to real world colonialism were very real, and it left a bad taste in many people's mouths. There are so many other ways to add fun conflict and depth to this world that don't have to do with large scale tragedy. This isn't censorship, this is a team maturing and realizing that this wasn't a story they wanted to tell anymore, nor was this sort of narrative the type of narrative one that was theirs to tell. They were not equipped with the sensitivity or experiences to properly tell it either. I'm glad they retconned it for a fresh start.
It hurts when the game you love so much has this aspect of such personal tragedy, and we lose nothing in this silly dragon.png game by the devs choosing to take another direction with their story
Yes, I understand that as well, but at the same time, never were the FR team trying to claim they were any sort of authority on the subject. They were just trying to make a story about fantastical dragons and creatures, and personally, I thought they did it quite well.
Stories are always subject to change, of course, and you're right, it's not as if we've lost anything in their decision. Our intentions change all the time in life, I guess I was just worried about somewhat different implications at the time of writing my initial message. I apologize for my outburst.
i was not expecting this, and as much as i understand it, i did not expect this to become as much of a problem as it was. thank you for opening my eyes! i look forward to dragons and their beastclan friends living in harmony
i was not expecting this, and as much as i understand it, i did not expect this to become as much of a problem as it was. thank you for opening my eyes! i look forward to dragons and their beastclan friends living in harmony
OH MY GOSH YES!!! Honestly I was not aware of the severity of this before. I'm sure I'm not the only Flight Rising player who really appreciates you addressing and adjusting this issue and resolving a lot of the most problematic parts of it. Also HARPY LOOORE I LOVE THESE SO MUCH FUNKY FRESH BIRD PEOPLE
OH MY GOSH YES!!! Honestly I was not aware of the severity of this before. I'm sure I'm not the only Flight Rising player who really appreciates you addressing and adjusting this issue and resolving a lot of the most problematic parts of it. Also HARPY LOOORE I LOVE THESE SO MUCH FUNKY FRESH BIRD PEOPLE
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_________________________________
I'm excited! I've always loved the beast clans and I'm glad they are getting further depth!
I'm excited! I've always loved the beast clans and I'm glad they are getting further depth!
[quote name="Pippatis" date="2022-12-15 06:24:27" ]
All I hope for, though, is that you did not do it because you felt pressured to do so by a subset of the community. Of course, I don't know what the answer to that is, but I just wanted to put it out there.
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@Pippatis, it is [b][url=https://flightrising.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005879886-Harassment#h_01G4G0KCB8ZY0SVXNQTYC875DK]not okay[/url][/b] to make coded references towards minoritized and marginalized people. This is our decision and targeting or disparaging other players for bringing this to our attention is not okay.
And to be clear: the [I]Flight Rising[/I] community members who first brought this to our attention [b]were correct and right[/b] to do so. Thank you for understanding.
All I hope for, though, is that you did not do it because you felt pressured to do so by a subset of the community. Of course, I don't know what the answer to that is, but I just wanted to put it out there.
@Pippatis, it is not okay to make coded references towards minoritized and marginalized people. This is our decision and targeting or disparaging other players for bringing this to our attention is not okay.
And to be clear: the Flight Rising community members who first brought this to our attention were correct and right to do so. Thank you for understanding.
[quote name="Countessoffire" date="2022-12-15 06:35:25" ]
May as well add in my two cents.
I can see why the Devs did this. They've been pushing to trend the lore toward younger kid-friendly content within the spectrum of PG-13 for years. It is their game so whatever they decide is canon is their prerogative.
Do I find this change enriching to the lore? No, the rewritten lore is some of the most inflexible and dull content I've seen in a while. Coming off of the hype of the Undertide lore, I've found this disappointing. Do I think this lore change is beneficial to others? Maybe, depends on the style of a user's gameplay and theme of other user's clan lore. Should we expect more changes like this? Yes, the Devs will do whatever they think is best for their business. The majority of the response are positive so that is where the Devs will go moving forward.
[/quote]
I don't have much to add, just wanted to say you made some excellent points. I agree with everything you said, and I didn't consider the angle they were pursuing towards a more kid-friendly audience before. Thanks.
I can see why the Devs did this. They've been pushing to trend the lore toward younger kid-friendly content within the spectrum of PG-13 for years. It is their game so whatever they decide is canon is their prerogative.
Do I find this change enriching to the lore? No, the rewritten lore is some of the most inflexible and dull content I've seen in a while. Coming off of the hype of the Undertide lore, I've found this disappointing. Do I think this lore change is beneficial to others? Maybe, depends on the style of a user's gameplay and theme of other user's clan lore. Should we expect more changes like this? Yes, the Devs will do whatever they think is best for their business. The majority of the response are positive so that is where the Devs will go moving forward.
I don't have much to add, just wanted to say you made some excellent points. I agree with everything you said, and I didn't consider the angle they were pursuing towards a more kid-friendly audience before. Thanks.
