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[quote name="NocturneAlley" date=2016-02-07 23:06:33] What irritates me about this whole issue is the community. We beg and beg for new genes and when we get them, we pick them to pieces and talk about why we think they are crap. Here's a novel idea: Don't like it, don't buy it! When Thy was released everyone said it was lazy or never stocked in the treasure MP. So, admins give us a gem gene (which, for those of you who still don't realize, are UNLIMITED in quantity. Looking at those of you with the over priced gem items in the AH and we call them lazy even louder and metaphorically spit in their faces. Y'all need church. [/quote] We can ask for something and then be unhappy with what we get. No one has to be pleased with what they get just because they asked for it -- especially if it's not up to the quality of previous items we receive from the same vendor. Using this metaphor again: If you go to a sandwich shop which is usually amazing and they hand you a mess of stale bread and spoiled meat, you're not going to be inclined to thank them or pay for that. You're essentially the customer who's next in line telling me "Well you should be grateful that they even made you a sandwich, jeeze. You asked for it, so take what you get." Which is not how a business works. Besides, every artist needs constructive criticism and that's what about 80% of this thread is.

[quote name="NocturneAlley" date=2016-02-07 23:06:33] What irritates me about this whole issue is the community. We beg and beg for new genes and when we get them, we pick them to pieces and talk about why we think they are crap. Here's a novel idea: Don't like it, don't buy it! When Thy was released everyone said it was lazy or never stocked in the treasure MP. So, admins give us a gem gene (which, for those of you who still don't realize, are UNLIMITED in quantity. Looking at those of you with the over priced gem items in the AH and we call them lazy even louder and metaphorically spit in their faces. Y'all need church. [/quote] That maybe so but this is something that will involve someone using real world money for the ability to buy something like this and for something that changes the color of the dragon only very slightly, sometimes not at all, the worth of the item falls very much under question. Using the "don't like it don't buy it" route is being ignorant to why some people are crying out against this gene the cost being one and the other being what it does the amount of work placed doesnt seem like a a whole lot. We as the community have the right to question when something just isnt right and sure not everyone it doing it well but if we don't mention it and bring it up the concern rises if another gene comes out with even less than the one we have here. Stock numbers should never be a valid argument as gem genes may be unlimited but just remember their availability isnt set in stone look at the wildclaw scrolls as an example so in hindsight they aren't unlimited and we never know if they will just stop being stocked. and please don't bring church into this, that is flat out insulting. @McAlli shows another very valid point on the business side of things as well.

[quote]Stock numbers should never be a valid argument as gem genes may be unlimited but just remember their availability isnt set in stone look at the wildclaw scrolls as an example so in hindsight they aren't unlimited and we never know if they will just stop being stocked.[/quote] @dravedragonheart Also, Treasure Genes are technically [i]unlimited [/i]as well. Having to wait for them to restock once in a while does not make them completely unavailable. It's true that new Treasure genes can be difficult to acquire just after their release because of snipers and the like, but they are never unobtainable. Plus, you can wait until your Flight had Dominance and get a discount on [i]those [/i]in the very least.

@McAlli

I hope you don't mind me pinging you! Seeing you discuss the business side of this whole situation made me want to speak up. I felt it's also worth noting that FR is a very different type of business than most consumers are used to.

Almost any store someone walks in to is a retailer; someone who bought the product from the product's vendor and is making it accessible to the public. A markup is necessary on such items so that the retailer can make a profit and pay their staff on top of being able to keep the product in stock.

A retailer has to deal with unpopular products sitting on the shelf unsold until they drop the price to at or just above the cost they paid. In that sense, it's a net loss.

FR is a 'manufacturer' of sorts. They don't have middlemen selling their product taking a cut of the profit. All of the site's ad revenue and gem sales go back to the staff. They suffer no real 'loss' bringing in a 'product' that flops. The artists will still get compensation through gem sales used to buy other items, and through ad revenue. Once their product is made, it doesn't really cost anything to manufacture more of them; it's a one and done deal (aside from the costs of running the site, which is something physical stores also have to consider in their costs).

Thus, when consumers for a retailer complain about the cost, the retailer can only do so much before they're losing money. FR, on the other hand, could set the cost at whatever they felt without really having to take a loss.

And while of course it is the staff's decision to set the price of a gem item however they deem fit, it's also important for them to listen to their consumer's criticism of said price and consider it in the future for gem-cost items. In being critical of their pricing, players bringing up the issue are actually offering insight into how the FR team could be making more profit. While some people may buy a $12 product, the same thing being sold for $6 will sell much faster.

i have no clue if ive actually added anything to this discussion besides a textwall but! knowing how businesses run is important and makes customer service personell like myself much less likely to pull their hair out when uninformed customers come up with no understanding of how these things work and get upset when things dont go their way

(also the whole don't like don't buy/look/watch argument, which has come up a lot in this thread, is really infuriating to me because not liking something should not invalidate ones opinion by default.)

@staticmcawesome

Thank you for that addition.

I have Dyscalculia, which renders me darn near innumerate, so I can really only discuss business from an ethical point of view. Your addition is very important!

@McAlli, @dravedragonheart

Lol I'm not saying you've gotta be happy with your sandwich. I'm just saying, there's more poilet ways to go about it.

If you get a kitty litter sandwich when you ordered pastrami, save a little face and poiletly ask to speak to the manager. Instead of yelling to the entirety of Times Square about how crappy your ONE experience was.

I can agree that maybe it should've been a treasure gene, but you knew what the price of the gene was and you are never FORCED to actually buy them.

I mean, if we go back to the sandwich metaphor and you try various different sandwiches from the same vendor, some you like and some you don't, why is the kitty litter sandwich any different? Just don't buy it again. Or at all if you can't justify spend 12 whole dollars on a gene.... THEN DON'T. I personally enjoy this kitty litter sandwich.

And before anyone jumps down my throat screaming about real life and bills and adulting... Please understand that I am a 24 year old woman who has been on her own since she was 17, pays my own bills and rent and supports her girlfriend, 5 dogs 2 rats and a plump cat.

Now I'm hungry..... I'm gonna make a sandwich.

@NocturneAlley

Except no one is "yelling to the entirety of Times Square". I admit that I've been particularly outspoken about this, but that doesn't make my opinion any less valid than the opinion of someone who may have went about it in a way you find more agreeable.

Again, as dravedragonheart said, your "Don't like it, don't buy it" argument is silly and rather useless. No one is saying that those who don't like the gene have to buy it. The people who are offering criticism are simply upset that the dev team decided to sell us what amounts to a Photoshop filter that can be recreated by amateur artists in less than a minute. For 12 dollars. If these professional artists are expecting to be paid of their work, than we, the consumers, can rightfully expect a little more effort to be put into the products. We expect better, and should, considering the effort and time put into previous genes.

There are always going to be people who don't like new genes. You can't hope to universally please a player-base of more than two-thousand people. But this isn't about personal taste, it's about effort vs value, gene functionality vs price. A lot of people don't like Smoke, but it's consistent and has a fair price for its effort.

Seeing as this thread is about 80% of the same opinions -- this gene feeling like a lazy cash grab that was pushed out too quickly and doesn't deserve its gem gene status -- I don't think that I'm being unreasonable.

@McAlli

I'm gonna stick with my opinion because... well... Its my opinion. Just the same as those who disagree with me and that's fine. Everyone's intitled to their own, however I think its a slap in the face for the staff to put effort into something new and cool to keep users happy until better ones come out and all anyone wants to do is complain about it.

And saying " 'Don't like it, don't use it' is silly and rather useless" is condensensing. I don't think its useless to say what I think and I don't think its silly to be appreciative of new things, regardless of how I personally feel about it.

Let's call a spade, a spade and agree to.disagree. Because, honestly this entire conversation is tediace and childish.

@NocturneAlley

Criticism is not a slap to the face. It's feedback, which every artist and business needs to survive.

I apologize if I came off as condescending. You are, of course, welcome to say what you feel and be appreciative of new things (disregarding your personal feelings) -- but you cannot tell others that they should be appreciative of new things (disregarding their personal feelings). You cannot shut down other peoples' views because you think they are childish or because they aren't worded in a way you agree with.

A community that does not voice its displeasure of a service is not going to get better service. I feel that we all expect the best from the FR dev team, and should, seeing is this is their job and we are the people supporting their financial endeavors.

That is all.

@McAlli

I, in no way, intended to stop people from giving their opinions. I just think there are much more polite ways of going about it than calling the staff lazy or uncommitted.

By all means, everyone please give feedback!! That's literally the only way the staff know how and when to create and implement new features!!

I feel like maybe we are trying to say the same thing, from opposite point of views and its not coming out right lol it could have something to so with the 3hr long headache I've had. None of my opinions where meant to come of in a way that seemed as though I was attempting to start an argument. (Although, it seems to happen constantly lol probably because I am an Aries xD)