Suggestions

[quote name="Lara8" date="2019-08-21 21:14:52" ] ^ Also, I think this is an important discussion for us to have - both sides deserve to be heard. Personal attacks will just get the thread locked or deleted, which is good for nobody. [/quote] Exactly this. Please don't get a thread that was going strong with five pages of useful discussion - on both sides - locked by name-calling people who believe in accessibility.

The easiest way to fix this whole thing is to just not make the things clanbound in the first place. Why does anything even need to be clanbound at all. In the past clanbound was only ever used to designate items given out for special, usually site heck-up related reasons, like the scatterscrolls being bugged. Even the kickstarter items that people payed real money for were never clanbound.

Having the coli shop rewards be clanbound is just straight-up punishing disabled and bad-internet-having people who can't coli for being disabled and/or having bad internet, and for no apparent reason other than chasing artificial exclusivity again.
If having exclusive clanbound things is really that important for whatever reason, just have it be clanbound battlestone recolors instead (maybe vistas too), because battlestones are only useful to people who are capable of coli grinding in the first place and are also thematically appropriate. Because again, i repeat, Having apparel or genes or anything at all with non-coli centric function be clanbound and only available through pvp grinding is punishing disabled and/or bad internet having people for being disabled and/or having bad internet.

And it makes me laugh that people are still trying to take the you're-all-just-entitled-kiddies angle here.

[quote name="Leopardmask" date="2019-08-21 21:10:34" ] Can we discuss this without being rude, please? You started out blunt, but somewhat constructive, and now you're literally just insulting someone who just said they have a disability literally cannot do Coli and therefore do not have any hope of earning a PvP-exclusive clanbound item. Yes, in this particular case they're talking about captchas, which are not technically a PvP thing. Well, guess what you have to go through to get trained dragons to PvP with. And other people on this thread have said they are completely unable to do Coli or to do PvP specifically for other reasons. They have no illusions of being entitled to anything. They just want to have the physical capability to earn the items they want, and not programming in multiple avenues of earning them would completely block them out, just because they have some sort of disability that they can't help having. I'm not buying the "entitled" angle, nor the "disabilities are irrelevant" angle. [/quote] Not doing PVE Coli has nothing to do with the PVP? The Staff said that PVP will {more than likely} NOT Have the captcha that they said is the reason they cannot use the Coli for PvE. That is fair, but we're not talking about PVE. We're talking about PVP. At this stage, there is no reason they couldn't theoretically take part in that. It is completely possible to purchase dragons, and stat and stone them in order to do PVP. Not wanting to take part in something, doesn't mean you should immediately have access to the items that taking part in it would allow. There are lots of ways people CAN take part and earn the items. They indicated one would collect currency to purchase the items with. That would imply that one doesn't even have to [i]win[/i] PVP in order to collect currency (get less? I would hazard you would get [i]some[/i] reward for taking part). Does it mean it would take a much longer time? YES. But there are many aspects of this site that take a long time. Because something like Apparel HASN'T been clan bound before, doesn't mean it SHOULDN'T. Everyone is on this big bandwagon to just immediately slash down the Staff for trying to offer something NEW and DIFFERENT. I mean, really.

eta: actually on second thought, I'm not playing into this mess, don't want the thread nuked. Sorry to everyone else.

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As for this thread, I support making this PvP apparel tradeable, and not clanbound because I would like to Fairly Purchase It from someone who is willing to both: PvP and Sell such items once, perhaps, they get extras. I'm more than willing to wait for this to happen. I have NO preconceived notions I'm owed ANYTHING from this site. It is, in the end, a simple browser game. I am just here to have fun, and not be locked out of various items/gameplay because of poor implementation (eye types) or clanbound status of items gotten from a section of the site many people cannot interact with (coli).

That's all.

[quote name="ThistleProse" date="2019-08-21 21:19:09" ] Because something like Apparel HASN'T been clan bound before, doesn't mean it SHOULDN'T. Everyone is on this big bandwagon to just immediately slash down the Staff for trying to offer something NEW and DIFFERENT. I mean, really. [/quote] That's a reasonable point. 'It's without precedent' is not, in itself, a definitive argument. Personally, I'm all for new and exciting mechanics, but I favor ones that give new capabilities and choices to the users rather than taking them away. Introducting items which you [b]must[/b] acquire in a dictated manner, and which you [b]must[/b] use for aesthetic rather than economic benefit, doesn't feel that way to me.

@ThistleProse
You're putting words in my mouth a little, and in staff's mouths. They never said PvE and PvP will not have ANYTHING to do with each other. Yeah, you CAN fight PvP with level 1 dragons, but if you want to use any actual battlestones beyond the starter stones, you need to level up your dragons, and as far as we know, PvE will still be the only way to level up dragons. HOWEVER, I do understand where you're coming from with buying dragons. That makes total sense. Except there are people in this thread who have specifically said they will not be able to do PvP for one reason or another - for example, anxiety. For those people, it doesn't matter whether they buy leveled dragons or train them themselves - they can't do PvP. Win or lose - they can't.

"Not wanting to take part in something, doesn't mean you should immediately have access to the items that taking part in it would allow." No one said immediately. No one is being given the items earned from PvP. If the items were sellable, they would still take time to trickle into the economy, and their prices would not drop to cheap-apparel prices for a very long time, if ever. It would take time and effort for anyone to earn the money to obtain these items, just like with KS items. And again, not WANTING to take part in something is not the issue here. It's being completely UNABLE to take part.

"Because something like Apparel HASN'T been clan bound before, doesn't mean it SHOULDN'T." You're right! This is also not a reason anyone has cited for apparel not being clanbound. Once again, you're setting up strawman arguments that haven't actually been made.

[quote name="Leopardmask" date="2019-08-21 21:31:29" ] You're putting words in my mouth a little, and in staff's mouths. They never said PvE and PvP will not have ANYTHING to do with each other. Yeah, you CAN fight PvP with level 1 dragons, but if you want to use any actual battlestones beyond the starter stones, you need to level up your dragons, and as far as we know, PvE will still be the only way to level up dragons. HOWEVER, I do understand where you're coming from with buying dragons. That makes total sense. [b]Except there are people in this thread who have specifically said they will not be able to do PvP for one reason or another - for example, anxiety. For those people, it doesn't matter whether they buy leveled dragons or train them themselves - they can't do PvP. Win or lose - they can't.[/b][/quote] @Leopardmask - I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth? The only thing I said was that at this stage, Staff are indicating they don't plan to put the captcha into the PvP. Beyond that? As it stands now, its all speculation, which I thought I made fairly clear in my post? As someone with extreme anxiety, I completely understand this; but it doesn't change my argument that clanbound is a great idea and it should definitely remain as such. [quote]"Because something like Apparel HASN'T been clan bound before, doesn't mean it SHOULDN'T." You're right! This is also not a reason anyone has cited for apparel not being clanbound. Once again, you're setting up strawman arguments that haven't actually been made. [/quote] Ah, not really? I mean, everyone keeps bringing up how X item was or was not clanbound and - to very much paraphrase - the opinion I'm seeing is 'clanbound is dumb. Don't do it. We hate it.' Which is a pretty whispy argument imo. 'Clanbound' is something that is extremely common in all kinds of community games. I'm honestly more shocked that FR doesn't have MORE or it, and the pitchforks that are being raised at the idea. There are hundreds (if not thousands) of items I've missed out on on other games because they were 'Clanbound' and (quite often) [i]time limited[/i] -- but that just means when I DO get an item, damned if I don't feel like I won the lottery! Speaking of which, they would probably end up in the raffle, too. So its not like they would be completely impossible to get. I just don't think they should be available on the market. Earn them, wear them with pride. Show off the time and effort you personally spent with your dragons in the PvP coli.

I've been thinking about this all day. I had a visceral reaction to the idea of "clanbound apparel." I really don't want clanbound apparel. I also really don't want yet another kind of currency. We've got regular. We've got premium. We've got festival currency (eleven) and also Joxar's token. That's an obscene amount of currency already, even before you add the "points" or whatever you can get from the coli.

In case nobody's counting. That's fourteen currencies. Without the coliseum points.
That's a lot.

I'm not a fan of the idea of clanbound rewards for PvP just because i's not guaranteed to be a reward. That is to say, if I don't like the reward, I'm still not going to play PvP. I don't care if it's exclusive or not. I don't like it, I'm going to just PvE.

I think someone mentioned resentment of coli players because of coli-exclusive items. We already have a bunch of those, and it doesn't seem to hurt anybody. I think that coli-exclusive clanbound items will cause way more toxicity. Not only is it a visual reminder of the things that you might not have any desire to participate in, but it might also be really frustrating for people who really like to coli (like me) but don't want to have this useless currency or rewards that I think look stupid or something just sitting in my hoard for all eternity.

Sort of like a... "I got the reward... yayyyy...."

The universal reward would be regular or premium currency, and part of me thinks it'd be a good move to make the rewards not clanbound for that reason.

@ThistleProse Okay, I think I see your stance a little better now. You're right. It is all just speculation. I, and others, automatically got a little defensive in response to your more abrasive comments, but you are making good points as well. [quote]I mean, everyone keeps bringing up how X item was or was not clanbound and - to very much paraphrase - the opinion I'm seeing is 'clanbound is dumb. Don't do it. We hate it.'[/quote] I see where you're coming from on this. I'm not seeing the opinions others are stating in the same way, though. What I was reading into them was less extreme: not that it's dumb, but that there's no reason TO clanbind these items, because other, rarer items have been unbound with no issue, and there are a number of problems involved with clanbinding non-consumable items - for example, getting rid of them if you don't want them. The items that HAVE been clanbound have all been distributed in limited quantities, either to introduce a feature or fix a screwup. [quote]There are hundreds (if not thousands) of items I've missed out on on other games because they were 'Clanbound' and (quite often) time limited -- but that just means when I DO get an item, damned if I don't feel like I won the lottery![/quote] I completely understand that. And it is quite a rush, for some people! But for others, it's not, and the inability to get certain items is disheartening. And after all, just because a lot of games [i]do[/i] it, doesn't mean every game [i]should[/i] do it. [quote]Speaking of which, they would probably end up in the raffle, too. So its not like they would be completely impossible to get.[/quote] Huh - I didn't actually think of that. While I don't think that's likely, it's certainly a possibility that would happen.