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Thought I’d share this comment from the admins in the announcement read as they can get covered pretty quickly [quote name="Xhaztol" date="2019-08-21 10:30:09" ] There seems to be some concern about the idea of clanbound apparel being locked out from players who don't consistently top the leaderboards. If we go with an idea like this, that probably isn't how we would make it work, because that's fairly prohibitive. It's more likely that we would allow the majority of players to make incremental progress (via either a special currency or something similar) to acquire these items. It wouldn't be elite/prestige gear that only the ladder toppers would have access to. It's possible they may be able to get it [i]faster[/i], but not exclusively. [/quote] Sounds a little better but I am still not a fan of clanbound apparel

@DragonSage
Thanks for bringing up that quote! It does seem they're at least thinking a little about the prohibitiveness, but the problem still remains that people who don't want to do PvP at all wouldn't have access. I'm going to add that to my original post, actually!

[quote name="DragonSage" date="2019-08-21 12:22:50" ] Thought I’d share this comment from the admins in the announcement read as they can get covered pretty quickly [quote name="Xhaztol" date="2019-08-21 10:30:09" ] There seems to be some concern about the idea of clanbound apparel being locked out from players who don't consistently top the leaderboards. If we go with an idea like this, that probably isn't how we would make it work, because that's fairly prohibitive. It's more likely that we would allow the majority of players to make incremental progress (via either a special currency or something similar) to acquire these items. It wouldn't be elite/prestige gear that only the ladder toppers would have access to. It's possible they may be able to get it [i]faster[/i], but not exclusively. [/quote] Sounds a little better but I am still not a fan of clanbound apparel [/quote] I would also like to point out that players who might want to PvP or might want specific pieces of apparel are then still stuck with other pieces they might not want. I still have two goat eye vials because I don't like goat. I can't get rid of them, unless I toss them on a fodder dragon. Apparel is even worse, because I can't toss it on a dragon nor (most likely) melt it down in baldwins. It would just be stuck on my account forever, without it being able to be seen because I happen to think it is ugly etc..

The only issue I can see is if you can buy as many of a particular piece as you want instead of 1 time unlocking (which I hope they won't be 1 time things). The issue being that since private PvP fights are possible, players could almost certainly get together with a friend, farm points by having level 25s against level 1 dragons (or have one side have 25s with no stats), and then split the rewards. Some ways around that would be to limit the amount of points users can get per day (in private fights or in general), or not give points with private fights.

Otherwise, I'm fairly ambivalent towards items from PvP being clanbound as long as users can still get points just from participating and not winning, but I suppose I lean more towards not making them clanbound so users with slow internet aren't forced to slog though the coli. Also it seems odd to have a non-consumable item be clanbound because, well, how are we supposed to get rid of it if we don't like it? What if we can hoardsell it, and I do, but then I change my mind and want that item again?

@DesertUmbra

I believe (and hope) that Friends match is going to be completely separate from Rated matches.

IE, you can do as many friends matches as you want, but you won't be earning points, nor able to unlock anything etc..

That is at least the way I read the update, that friends matches were going to be a 'fun' section of the coliseum, but ultimately, that is all, just a way to have fun and compete against friends.

Rated matches are the 'serious' side of PvP with leaderboards and prizes etc..

Support!

There's another issue or two here, and I'm not sure anyone has mentioned it yet so I'll toss in my two cents as someone who's looking to participate in PvP on a regular basis:

Players that participate a lot will get swamped with duplicate clanbound items that they probably don't want/need. Especially if you can't hoardsell these items (which is pretty likely, since their drops are 'limited').

I don't want my inventory cluttered by 50 duplicates of the same low-level participation reward.

We need some way to offload these items so they don't clog up our inventories, and being able to sell them to folks who don't PvP is a also pretty good incentive to PvP on a consistent basis (rather than only using it when new rewards are added, if they ever are), since it'll probably be a good way to earn cash. This'll help keep the queue full of potential opponents for PvP, meaning that there'll always be somebody online who's ready and willing to battle.

Without a consistent incentive to PvP, the queue will be pretty empty 99.9% of the time, and being able to sell PvP rewards to other players is a pretty good incentive.

@Jemadar Now that I've re-read it, that does seem to be the case! Well, that's one less worry about that then.

- snipped & bolded - [quote name="Leopardmask" date="2019-08-21 10:03:10" ] Edit: Xhaz made a statement on this. It's a partial solution, but NOT a full solution - the incremental reward system still sounds like [b]it would force people to do PvP in order to get the apparel, and maybe even do MORE PvP than the top players[/b]. There needs to be a solution that allows people who don't want to do PvP [b]at all[/b] to get these items. The easiest solution to this would be to not make the apparel clanbound. [/quote] Not going to beat around the bush - I've played dozens of games that had various PvP options and never enjoyed one. Sure, some people might love it but then they choose to PvP while others... don't. The point that those that do not like PvP would have to do even more of that to get the apparel is very valid in my opinion - because that's the main problem: I hate PvP. Making me do it for hours on end won't make me spontaneously love it, so I won't because it's not fun for me. Simultaneously, those that do love PvP (or might love doing it) now have "rewards" that are also clan-bound - but what if they want, for example, a treasure MP gene? Nope, stop PvPing and go grind in the regular coli... so they also have to stop doing what they want (at least partly). TBH I do not understand what is the advantage of clan-bound apparel - it seems that neither those that like PvP, nor those that don't like it get any benefits from that. (side note: the Sticker vista, which you get by buying with real money, can be traded, so why is PvP apparel so extra special?)

Support

People who win skin / tooltip / familiar coloring contests don’t get any special prizes outside of pretty vistas and something you can sell (blueprints in the case of skin contests). The only incentives to participate in those are having your name and item on the site.

There is no reason PvP should divert from this pattern. Everything is available (vistas aside) if you put in the effort even if it’s roundabout (say, selling artwork for gems to buy festival currency because you don’t want to grind for more fest. currency), but having something that’ll be 1) clanbound and 2) obtained ONLY by participating in a super specific feature of the game is a bit backwards thinking.

I’m the odd duck out here I guess. I come from more of an mmo background and the idea of account bound, game mode specific rewards makes perfect sense to me. PvP doesn’t come with an inherent monetary reward. Every match of pvp you play is money lost not coil grinding, leveling fodder, etc. And pvp requires a robust userbase to work. So you need something to entice more players. You can make special exclusive rewards sellable and rare (so the mode is monetarily worthwhile), but then everyone complains that devs are catering to the pvp-ers and giving them an unfair advantage. Or you lock them to the account and let everyone work towards them at their own pace. The flight rising battle system is honestly probably the easiest I’ve ever seen for anyone to get into pvp. There are no retired super powerful battlestones, these’s no reflexive quick motion combat, and all dragons have access to the same stats. Everyone is really on even footing, and if it’s a token system everyone should be able to get the stuff eventually. I see nothing wrong with unique locked rewards to encourage people to try it out.

And full disclosure, I don’t pvp. I infinitely prefer solo pve. But exclusive rewards have tempted me into trying pvp on occasion, and it’s the ONLY reason I ever play those game modes.