[quote name="gemajgall" date="2019-06-13 07:52:46" ]
Please just let me work for my goals. What's the point of even playing if I'm going to be locked out entirely? Impossible goals aren't fun and are every reason not to stick around or contribute financially.
[/quote]
And if the eyes [i]aren’t[/i] supposed to be something people want for their dragons (current dragons or future projects), and are instead supposed to be a novelty that nobody actively cares for: What’s even the point of having the feature in the first place? Why bother introducing different eye types if we aren’t supposed to want them?
Introducing a cool concept and then locking everyone out of being able to achieve their new dream dragons or customize their old favorites just... doesn’t make any sense. :(
I want certain tints on a few of my old dragons since, due to the Common change, Uncommon/Unusual/Rare are sometimes closer in hue to the originals. But I can’t even reliably get particular tints from scattering, and Scattersights are expensive and in limited supply anyway. I also want certain tints on my future breeding projects, but again- there’s no reliable way to get those, either.
Having vials for the eye types would fix this problem (which I still see hundreds of people being sad about, including newbies) [b]and[/b] still let people hatch something cool from their nests and Unhatched Eggs. The tints can go in the MP, and the “special” types can be obtained through hard-to-get ways (to help preserve rarity) or through the Gem MP (to boost site income- people would 100% pay for Primal vials).
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: “We wanted to do this from the beginning” doesn’t matter when people have spent 5 years being able to fully customize their dragons and control breeding projects (bar sex, which is 50/50), and have collected 5 years’ worth of dragons they want to keep and customize. It goes against what FR was built on and prevents people from achieving their goals for... seemingly no good reason??? (“The eyes are worth big money” and “It’s special” aren’t valid reasons; they’ve been picked apart a million times already)
Please give us some way to give our dragons different Natural eye types. ;;
gemajgall wrote on 2019-06-13 07:52:46:
Please just let me work for my goals. What's the point of even playing if I'm going to be locked out entirely? Impossible goals aren't fun and are every reason not to stick around or contribute financially.
And if the eyes
aren’t supposed to be something people want for their dragons (current dragons or future projects), and are instead supposed to be a novelty that nobody actively cares for: What’s even the point of having the feature in the first place? Why bother introducing different eye types if we aren’t supposed to want them?
Introducing a cool concept and then locking everyone out of being able to achieve their new dream dragons or customize their old favorites just... doesn’t make any sense. :(
I want certain tints on a few of my old dragons since, due to the Common change, Uncommon/Unusual/Rare are sometimes closer in hue to the originals. But I can’t even reliably get particular tints from scattering, and Scattersights are expensive and in limited supply anyway. I also want certain tints on my future breeding projects, but again- there’s no reliable way to get those, either.
Having vials for the eye types would fix this problem (which I still see hundreds of people being sad about, including newbies)
and still let people hatch something cool from their nests and Unhatched Eggs. The tints can go in the MP, and the “special” types can be obtained through hard-to-get ways (to help preserve rarity) or through the Gem MP (to boost site income- people would 100% pay for Primal vials).
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: “We wanted to do this from the beginning” doesn’t matter when people have spent 5 years being able to fully customize their dragons and control breeding projects (bar sex, which is 50/50), and have collected 5 years’ worth of dragons they want to keep and customize. It goes against what FR was built on and prevents people from achieving their goals for... seemingly no good reason??? (“The eyes are worth big money” and “It’s special” aren’t valid reasons; they’ve been picked apart a million times already)
Please give us some way to give our dragons different Natural eye types. ;;
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Ashes | F
+4h FR time
Feel free to ping me!
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I'm sad that we didn't get anything for this year's anniversary. The introduction of ancients would've made for a prime opportunity to introduce a means of getting natural eye types on already existing dragons since the ancient breeds are part of the eye system as well.
Many a player is turning an older dragon into a gaoler or waits for an ancient breed to come out to fit a fandragon they bred. Why can we customize this and not the eyes?
It has been repeatedly stated that there is no "wrong" way to play FR, yet when the eyes came out players who collect Gen 1s, old dragons, dragons with special IDs and birthdates or who don'r breed their dragons for aesthetic reasons found their playstyles invalidated. They were basically told "if you want to take part in the new update you breed your dragons or you can't take part in it". That's really a nasty move to pull on players after 5 years of site existence.
It doesn't help that there hasn't been a word about anything in the direction of individual eye-vials or even just un-retiring the vials of scattersight. And the way goat was introduced makes me honestly worry for the future, because apparently nothing was learned from the initial eyepocalypse.
I'm sad that we didn't get anything for this year's anniversary. The introduction of ancients would've made for a prime opportunity to introduce a means of getting natural eye types on already existing dragons since the ancient breeds are part of the eye system as well.
Many a player is turning an older dragon into a gaoler or waits for an ancient breed to come out to fit a fandragon they bred. Why can we customize this and not the eyes?
It has been repeatedly stated that there is no "wrong" way to play FR, yet when the eyes came out players who collect Gen 1s, old dragons, dragons with special IDs and birthdates or who don'r breed their dragons for aesthetic reasons found their playstyles invalidated. They were basically told "if you want to take part in the new update you breed your dragons or you can't take part in it". That's really a nasty move to pull on players after 5 years of site existence.
It doesn't help that there hasn't been a word about anything in the direction of individual eye-vials or even just un-retiring the vials of scattersight. And the way goat was introduced makes me honestly worry for the future, because apparently nothing was learned from the initial eyepocalypse.
@DracoVentis - The original three eye vial threads (“Various Eye Vials”, “Legacy Eye Type”, and “Scattersights brought back once a year”) were all locked last month with [url=http://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/2459186/112#post_38992085]this statement here[/url].
[quote][b]The Vial of Scattersight is permanently retired[/b]
It will not come back through gems, treasure, Roundsey, Galore, or any other site feature.
In hindsight, if we had to go back and make a choice, we probably wouldn't release the Vial of Scattersight. Instead of this gift resolving anticipated issues, it created them. These issues were exacerbated by the short collection window.[/quote]
So no Scattersights ever again. As for individual eye vials:
[quote]Going forward, when a new natural eye type is released, players will have seven (7) days to visit Galore and pick up two (2) clanbound vials, allowing you to customize existing dragons with eye types that will only be available through breeding.[/quote]
We’ll get a measly 2 vials from Galore for new Natural eye types, but still no word on the original set of Natural eye types. Better than nothing, but...
And:
[quote]The standardization of the eye colors across breeds is permanent and will not be reverted, not even through an eye type vial. As we’ve mentioned before, this was done to create consistency across all current breeds and a standard for the development of future dragon breeds.[/quote]
So players still have no way to try to fix their dragons’ eyes that got messed up by the change, and still nothing on getting other Natural eyes on dragons in general.
Overall, a very disheartening statement to read. :(
@
DracoVentis - The original three eye vial threads (“Various Eye Vials”, “Legacy Eye Type”, and “Scattersights brought back once a year”) were all locked last month with
this statement here.
Quote:
The Vial of Scattersight is permanently retired
It will not come back through gems, treasure, Roundsey, Galore, or any other site feature.
In hindsight, if we had to go back and make a choice, we probably wouldn't release the Vial of Scattersight. Instead of this gift resolving anticipated issues, it created them. These issues were exacerbated by the short collection window.
So no Scattersights ever again. As for individual eye vials:
Quote:
Going forward, when a new natural eye type is released, players will have seven (7) days to visit Galore and pick up two (2) clanbound vials, allowing you to customize existing dragons with eye types that will only be available through breeding.
We’ll get a measly 2 vials from Galore for new Natural eye types, but still no word on the original set of Natural eye types. Better than nothing, but...
And:
Quote:
The standardization of the eye colors across breeds is permanent and will not be reverted, not even through an eye type vial. As we’ve mentioned before, this was done to create consistency across all current breeds and a standard for the development of future dragon breeds.
So players still have no way to try to fix their dragons’ eyes that got messed up by the change, and still nothing on getting other Natural eyes on dragons in general.
Overall, a very disheartening statement to read. :(
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Ashes | F
+4h FR time
Feel free to ping me!
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Ningyo Thank you for laying that out. But it doesn't detract from my point that a lot of players found their ways of playing to be turned into "wrong" ways and that the anniversary and the ancient breeds could have made for a great starting point to do something about the eye situation.
And while I agree that the vials from Galore are better than nothing, I find myself asking whether nothing wouldn't be better after all. Like this we get 2 vials, never again more, and there will be players who
a) will have to decide which dragons to give these to in favor of others who won't receive them despite how stunning they would look with them or how much lore is involved with that.
b) won't use them for fear that someday a new eye type will be released that looks better and thereby wasting a precious
irretrievable resource or wondering if they'll find a new dragon they'll desperately want to use those vials on but can't, because they're used up already.
That's why I'll always support there to be more ways of getting the natural eye types than just breeding.
@
Ningyo Thank you for laying that out. But it doesn't detract from my point that a lot of players found their ways of playing to be turned into "wrong" ways and that the anniversary and the ancient breeds could have made for a great starting point to do something about the eye situation.
And while I agree that the vials from Galore are better than nothing, I find myself asking whether nothing wouldn't be better after all. Like this we get 2 vials, never again more, and there will be players who
a) will have to decide which dragons to give these to in favor of others who won't receive them despite how stunning they would look with them or how much lore is involved with that.
b) won't use them for fear that someday a new eye type will be released that looks better and thereby wasting a precious
irretrievable resource or wondering if they'll find a new dragon they'll desperately want to use those vials on but can't, because they're used up already.
That's why I'll always support there to be more ways of getting the natural eye types than just breeding.
@
DracoVentis - Oh yeah, I completely agree! I don’t get new dragons very often, and most of the dragons I own have been with me for several years, so the Eyepocalypse basically locked my whole lair out of a new feature. Pretty much all I want are different tints for my dragons’ eyes, but I can’t even get those without gambling away retired Scattersights. :/
I feel the same way about the 2 clanbound Galore vials, too. It’d be nice to have as an add-on, like how we got 2 Gaoler scrolls from Galore
and we can purchase extra scrolls from the MP, but
only getting 2 clanbound eye vials with no other way to get those eyes kind of... sucks a lot.
I haven’t used either of my Goat vials yet. Partly because I don’t have any dragons that I want Goat eyes on yet, but partly because I only have 2 and I’m worried I’ll waste them. What if I decide I don’t want the dragon I used it on anymore? What if I want Goat on another dragon later, but I have no vials left? What if I use one and then another eye type comes out that I like more?
That’s not a problem for genes, since genes are freely available and aren’t a limited resource. I gave one of my dragons Tiger, and then Cherub came out and looked even better. I didn’t mind replacing Tiger since I knew I could just buy a Tiger scroll if I changed my mind later. But we don’t have that luxury with Natural eye types (not yet, anyway).
I really hope that something will eventually change. :c
@
DracoVentis - Oh yeah, I completely agree! I don’t get new dragons very often, and most of the dragons I own have been with me for several years, so the Eyepocalypse basically locked my whole lair out of a new feature. Pretty much all I want are different tints for my dragons’ eyes, but I can’t even get those without gambling away retired Scattersights. :/
I feel the same way about the 2 clanbound Galore vials, too. It’d be nice to have as an add-on, like how we got 2 Gaoler scrolls from Galore
and we can purchase extra scrolls from the MP, but
only getting 2 clanbound eye vials with no other way to get those eyes kind of... sucks a lot.
I haven’t used either of my Goat vials yet. Partly because I don’t have any dragons that I want Goat eyes on yet, but partly because I only have 2 and I’m worried I’ll waste them. What if I decide I don’t want the dragon I used it on anymore? What if I want Goat on another dragon later, but I have no vials left? What if I use one and then another eye type comes out that I like more?
That’s not a problem for genes, since genes are freely available and aren’t a limited resource. I gave one of my dragons Tiger, and then Cherub came out and looked even better. I didn’t mind replacing Tiger since I knew I could just buy a Tiger scroll if I changed my mind later. But we don’t have that luxury with Natural eye types (not yet, anyway).
I really hope that something will eventually change. :c
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Ashes | F
+4h FR time
Feel free to ping me!
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RNG =/= challenge
and I wouldn't consider wasting potentially 12 or more years of my life for ONE dragon a challenge either
RNG =/= challenge
and I wouldn't consider wasting potentially 12 or more years of my life for ONE dragon a challenge either
Colossal Post Ahead, Sorry Everyone.
I'm consistently baffled by the argument that releasing eye-specific vials (whether through Coli, Baldwin, Marketplace, Pinkerton, whatever) is "Pay-To-Win" but Scattersights in their current structure aren't?
If you have the money to drop potentially hundreds into getting enough Scattersights to roll for the eyes you want then you are still "Paying-To-Win". If you are trawling the Auction House for hatchlings with the exact color/eyes/genes/etc. to buy then you are "Paying-To-Win" as well in this context. Letting users buy specific eye vials might make prices for Scattersights drop, sure, but if you think users who want that random option purely for the novelty OR item collectors wouldn't still be buying them then I really don't know what to tell you? Users still dump upwards of thousands of gems into Scatterscrolls for dragon colors, oftentimes purely because it's fun. Like it or not, Scattersights are part of site history and as time goes on the demand and the disappointment are only going to continue getting worse as they get rarer. The fact that it's been over a year and we're still getting users (new and old) voicing their desire for something to change so the eyes that were released a year ago are reliably obtainable by players is evidence enough.
If you're the sort of person who beat Mario 64 with half a button press; cool! Most people find beating Bowser to be adequate and more manageable, though.
If you want to wait twelve years to hatch an Imperial with the right colors, genes, gender, and eyes; cool! Most people find that they prefer the dragons they already have though.
I can't rehatch my progens. And since I'm also unable to sell them for profit, and their offspring aren't guaranteed to inherit their eyes, the economic impact of getting the eyes I want on either of them (or any other of the permanent dragons in my lair, which is 98% of them) is nil beyond buying the vial(s) required. It is a net loss already for a purely cosmetic aspect.
In any other game genre other than a pet customization sim, cosmetics would be purely optional and ignorable. Unfortunately in this context, Flight Rising is a pet site. A huge draw of which is the customization. Visual aesthetic is arguably the most important feature of this particular game genre.
Rolling upwards of fifty vials just to get a slightly different tint on an item that's worth over hundreds of gems is not a good investment. For players who have dragons who would look good no matter what color their eyes end up, Scattersights might be fun to try. For everyone else, they're an expensive nuisance.
Also on a final note regarding tints, I'm extremely sick of people going "well new Common eyes are just a tint lighter/darker than the original eyes!" or "most of the natural eye tints don't matter because they're samey!"
If you don't care about eyes at all that's a fair assumption to make. Most of the changes to existing eyes and the smaller tints are minor and hard to see on most dragons. But some users might find the inclusion of such eye tints can make or break the aesthetic they're going for. There's not much of a difference between Water Uncommon and Water Rare, but Water Unusual can make or break many color combos in a subtle way simply by being a little brighter and more visible.
Nobody who has been asking for different eye vials or transferable eyes or any other feature are doing so with the expectation of free handouts. Literally every single proposed alternative to the current system of Breeding-And-Scattersights-Only for the original release eye types has involved site participation. People want to be encouraged to actively use the site, whether it's via Coliseum or Baldwin or even Gathering. I'd even take once in a blue moon vial drops from Pinkerton at this rate. Nobody is expecting individual eye vials for Natural eye types to not require time and/or money to obtain. Only that a more reliable alternative to what we currently have be available for dragons born over the last six years since the site started. While Galore is now a factor, most people have voiced discontent that Galore is offering freebies on new Natural eyes in exchange for them being limited and account locked. Two vials of Goat as gifts were a nice gesture, but over time new users who weren't around for the Goat release are going to want vials for some of their dragons, including progens that can't just be sent to another account for eye application.
Every other pet/avatar site from Neopets to Subeta to Gaia has had an exodus of users for this exact issue, namely retired and out-of-reach customizables. Users, new and old, want the ability to be able to work hard for attainable goals. Scattersights, in a few years, will likely not be attainable, and unless something changes regarding "natural" eye types being obtainable in ways other than breeding there are going to be more and more users exalting dragons they otherwise would've loved to keep and regretting it, plummeting site involvement and enjoyment as the things they want to work for get further out of reach, even as staff release more and more items and products to try to reign them back in, and are forced to prioritize the next hot new thing over fixing issues like art errors and other long-term bugs in order to keep their audience distracted and happy.
As someone who was peripherally around during the Neopets change from classic designs to new converted pets for apparel customization and saw the upheaval the community underwent when they realized they couldn't change their pets back to how they were, it definitely reminded me a lot about the eye update change and the lack of Legacy vials. That event marked the tailspin of Neopets as a site and, while it is still active and has a userbase, nobody can deny that it has become a shadow of it's former self ever since.
I'd rather not see Flight Rising go the same way.
Colossal Post Ahead, Sorry Everyone.
I'm consistently baffled by the argument that releasing eye-specific vials (whether through Coli, Baldwin, Marketplace, Pinkerton, whatever) is "Pay-To-Win" but Scattersights in their current structure aren't?
If you have the money to drop potentially hundreds into getting enough Scattersights to roll for the eyes you want then you are still "Paying-To-Win". If you are trawling the Auction House for hatchlings with the exact color/eyes/genes/etc. to buy then you are "Paying-To-Win" as well in this context. Letting users buy specific eye vials might make prices for Scattersights drop, sure, but if you think users who want that random option purely for the novelty OR item collectors wouldn't still be buying them then I really don't know what to tell you? Users still dump upwards of thousands of gems into Scatterscrolls for dragon colors, oftentimes purely because it's fun. Like it or not, Scattersights are part of site history and as time goes on the demand and the disappointment are only going to continue getting worse as they get rarer. The fact that it's been over a year and we're still getting users (new and old) voicing their desire for something to change so the eyes that were released a year ago are reliably obtainable by players is evidence enough.
If you're the sort of person who beat Mario 64 with half a button press; cool! Most people find beating Bowser to be adequate and more manageable, though.
If you want to wait twelve years to hatch an Imperial with the right colors, genes, gender, and eyes; cool! Most people find that they prefer the dragons they already have though.
I can't rehatch my progens. And since I'm also unable to sell them for profit, and their offspring aren't guaranteed to inherit their eyes, the economic impact of getting the eyes I want on either of them (or any other of the permanent dragons in my lair, which is 98% of them) is nil beyond buying the vial(s) required. It is a net loss already for a purely cosmetic aspect.
In any other game genre other than a pet customization sim, cosmetics would be purely optional and ignorable. Unfortunately in this context, Flight Rising is a pet site. A huge draw of which is the customization. Visual aesthetic is arguably the most important feature of this particular game genre.
Rolling upwards of fifty vials just to get a slightly different tint on an item that's worth over hundreds of gems is not a good investment. For players who have dragons who would look good no matter what color their eyes end up, Scattersights might be fun to try. For everyone else, they're an expensive nuisance.
Also on a final note regarding tints, I'm extremely sick of people going "well new Common eyes are just a tint lighter/darker than the original eyes!" or "most of the natural eye tints don't matter because they're samey!"
If you don't care about eyes at all that's a fair assumption to make. Most of the changes to existing eyes and the smaller tints are minor and hard to see on most dragons. But some users might find the inclusion of such eye tints can make or break the aesthetic they're going for. There's not much of a difference between Water Uncommon and Water Rare, but Water Unusual can make or break many color combos in a subtle way simply by being a little brighter and more visible.
Nobody who has been asking for different eye vials or transferable eyes or any other feature are doing so with the expectation of free handouts. Literally every single proposed alternative to the current system of Breeding-And-Scattersights-Only for the original release eye types has involved site participation. People want to be encouraged to actively use the site, whether it's via Coliseum or Baldwin or even Gathering. I'd even take once in a blue moon vial drops from Pinkerton at this rate. Nobody is expecting individual eye vials for Natural eye types to not require time and/or money to obtain. Only that a more reliable alternative to what we currently have be available for dragons born over the last six years since the site started. While Galore is now a factor, most people have voiced discontent that Galore is offering freebies on new Natural eyes in exchange for them being limited and account locked. Two vials of Goat as gifts were a nice gesture, but over time new users who weren't around for the Goat release are going to want vials for some of their dragons, including progens that can't just be sent to another account for eye application.
Every other pet/avatar site from Neopets to Subeta to Gaia has had an exodus of users for this exact issue, namely retired and out-of-reach customizables. Users, new and old, want the ability to be able to work hard for attainable goals. Scattersights, in a few years, will likely not be attainable, and unless something changes regarding "natural" eye types being obtainable in ways other than breeding there are going to be more and more users exalting dragons they otherwise would've loved to keep and regretting it, plummeting site involvement and enjoyment as the things they want to work for get further out of reach, even as staff release more and more items and products to try to reign them back in, and are forced to prioritize the next hot new thing over fixing issues like art errors and other long-term bugs in order to keep their audience distracted and happy.
As someone who was peripherally around during the Neopets change from classic designs to new converted pets for apparel customization and saw the upheaval the community underwent when they realized they couldn't change their pets back to how they were, it definitely reminded me a lot about the eye update change and the lack of Legacy vials. That event marked the tailspin of Neopets as a site and, while it is still active and has a userbase, nobody can deny that it has become a shadow of it's former self ever since.
I'd rather not see Flight Rising go the same way.
“Denizens of the Volt-Lands”
She/They/He | FR Time +0
Yeah dude, that was 100% why I left gaia online (well, and the death of zOMG.) . I really like the art on that site, but there are so many items that are 100% unobtainable, and it doesn't make for a fun avatar customization game.
It is also why I got bored of wajas and felisfire- wajas is also full of unobtainable items, and felisfire's breeding mechanic is extremely frustrating. Both of these issues again impeded customization, which to me was the point of these games.
I really like flight rising. I left gaia after 3 years (still log on occasionally, but one can hardly call me active), wajas after 6 months, and felisfire after 4 months. But I'm still here after 6 years. This game's level of inclusivity and customization makes me want to stay, as here, I can always achieve my quests, unlike those other sites where quests just made me frustrated. But this is not at all the case regarding the eyes.
Yeah dude, that was 100% why I left gaia online (well, and the death of zOMG.) . I really like the art on that site, but there are so many items that are 100% unobtainable, and it doesn't make for a fun avatar customization game.
It is also why I got bored of wajas and felisfire- wajas is also full of unobtainable items, and felisfire's breeding mechanic is extremely frustrating. Both of these issues again impeded customization, which to me was the point of these games.
I really like flight rising. I left gaia after 3 years (still log on occasionally, but one can hardly call me active), wajas after 6 months, and felisfire after 4 months. But I'm still here after 6 years. This game's level of inclusivity and customization makes me want to stay, as here, I can always achieve my quests, unlike those other sites where quests just made me frustrated. But this is not at all the case regarding the eyes.
I never understood the "you just want it for free!" argument when people are clearly talking about different methods of obtaining said thing. I also have not literally seen anyone say "I want it for free" in a serious manner. Only as a joke .w.
I'm also disappointed that while they addressed that the scattervials were a mistake, they never really addressed why so many dragons were locked off from the update in the first place
I never understood the "you just want it for free!" argument when people are clearly talking about different methods of obtaining said thing. I also have not literally seen anyone say "I want it for free" in a serious manner. Only as a joke .w.
I'm also disappointed that while they addressed that the scattervials were a mistake, they never really addressed why so many dragons were locked off from the update in the first place
[quote name="Voltzinar" date="2019-06-16 15:21:39" ]
As someone who was peripherally around during the Neopets change from classic designs to new converted pets for apparel customization and saw the upheaval the community underwent when they realized they couldn't change their pets back to how they were, it definitely reminded me a lot about the eye update change and the lack of Legacy vials. That event marked the tailspin of Neopets as a site and, while it is still active and has a userbase, nobody can deny that it has become a shadow of it's former self ever since.
I'd rather not see Flight Rising go the same way.
[/quote]
I wish I could like posts!
I fear if we continue going down the route of "all old dragons are locked out" of new, exciting customization options, this site won't live to see its 10th birthday.
Voltzinar wrote on 2019-06-16 15:21:39:
As someone who was peripherally around during the Neopets change from classic designs to new converted pets for apparel customization and saw the upheaval the community underwent when they realized they couldn't change their pets back to how they were, it definitely reminded me a lot about the eye update change and the lack of Legacy vials. That event marked the tailspin of Neopets as a site and, while it is still active and has a userbase, nobody can deny that it has become a shadow of it's former self ever since.
I'd rather not see Flight Rising go the same way.
I wish I could like posts!
I fear if we continue going down the route of "all old dragons are locked out" of new, exciting customization options, this site won't live to see its 10th birthday.