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TOPIC | Eliminate
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Please fix the Eliminate drop rate.

The prices for Eliminate are ridiculously high, and make it nearly impossible to create a new team with dragons that are bred from your own lair unless you have unlimited treasure/gems, which most of us don't.

I used to get an eliminate about once a month. I haven't gotten one at all in the last two years, and haven't changed my coli habits. Not okay.
Please fix the Eliminate drop rate.

The prices for Eliminate are ridiculously high, and make it nearly impossible to create a new team with dragons that are bred from your own lair unless you have unlimited treasure/gems, which most of us don't.

I used to get an eliminate about once a month. I haven't gotten one at all in the last two years, and haven't changed my coli habits. Not okay.
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play glimmer n gloom for 10 days straight and you'll have 750kt
play glimmer n gloom for 10 days straight and you'll have 750kt
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[quote name="Knoxxi" date="2018-12-16 10:26:39" ] play glimmer n gloom for 10 days straight and you'll have 750kt [/quote] Do that for another 5 and a half years and then you finally have your lair done. That is if you do not change out dragons in between and are allready maxed in lairspace. No really... these stones are a joke. They used to drop every other day (which was a years long bug I get it) but nowadays they are too rare. I only ever got one after that fix even though I colied daily for years. At least make them something every player can work securely work forwards to. Exalt shop, coli points, ridiculously expensive trade in an upcomming feature.. I don't even care. Just ANYTHING that makes it imposdible to waste 10k hours of time in the coli and being not a millimeter closer to that elim than you were 10k hours ago.
Knoxxi wrote on 2018-12-16 10:26:39:
play glimmer n gloom for 10 days straight and you'll have 750kt

Do that for another 5 and a half years and then you finally have your lair done. That is if you do not change out dragons in between and are allready maxed in lairspace.

No really... these stones are a joke. They used to drop every other day (which was a years long bug I get it) but nowadays they are too rare. I only ever got one after that fix even though I colied daily for years.

At least make them something every player can work securely work forwards to. Exalt shop, coli points, ridiculously expensive trade in an upcomming feature.. I don't even care. Just ANYTHING that makes it imposdible to waste 10k hours of time in the coli and being not a millimeter closer to that elim than you were 10k hours ago.
When I joined FR my light flight mentor lent me two of her trainers and gave me every single stone I would need for a full team of three. INCLUDING ELIMINATE. At the time Eliminates were going for about 50k each. I was so excited and I couldn't wait until I could do that for newbies when I had more money. By the time I could even think of doing that Eliminates were all the way up to 150k each. There was no way I could afford it and even less chance now.

Eliminates are broken. People who say just save up and buy it are fooling themselves.

This can't go on.

If I were a new user now I would be so discouraged.

I say this as someone who trained a team of Sedona builds from scratch without using my trainers. So I know it's possible. But it's a hell of a lot harder then it needs to be or should be.
When I joined FR my light flight mentor lent me two of her trainers and gave me every single stone I would need for a full team of three. INCLUDING ELIMINATE. At the time Eliminates were going for about 50k each. I was so excited and I couldn't wait until I could do that for newbies when I had more money. By the time I could even think of doing that Eliminates were all the way up to 150k each. There was no way I could afford it and even less chance now.

Eliminates are broken. People who say just save up and buy it are fooling themselves.

This can't go on.

If I were a new user now I would be so discouraged.

I say this as someone who trained a team of Sedona builds from scratch without using my trainers. So I know it's possible. But it's a hell of a lot harder then it needs to be or should be.
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The thing is, I don't think Eliminates are *meant* to be new player stones. They are (or seem to be) meant for long term players. I am not sure that it was really meant that players would train dragons in a weekend, and thus end up needing eliminates right off the bat.

With how over powered Eliminates are, I feel they were more meant to be 'rewards' for taking your team through training and thus, not meant to be a common stone or even a cheap one. It is due to player influence that they are deemed 'necessary' and something that new players feel they must get. Nearly every guide calls for it, players all over the forums, when mentioning the coliseum, tend to tell new players that eliminates are 'necessary' to grind the coliseum, thus, it creates a high demand. I am not even sure if eliminates are in short supply, as we don't know how many players are actually getting the drops and hoarding them.

I do think that eliminates should drop from all venues, but I don't think the drop rates need to be touched right now, as having them drop from one of the most used areas, the mire, would probably bring their price down. I also don't think they should be cheap, I feel that 250K treasure would be about the right range for a stone like eliminate. Maybe even just a touch more, since once you get eliminates, even on one dragon, you can make it back pretty easily if you are dedicated enough to grinding the coliseum or training/exalting fodder.

I agree that they are helpful and probably should be a touch more common, but I don't necessarily think that it is a problem that they are rare, and feel that it is more the insistence of players on both speed and that eliminates are necessary that is driving their prices up. Also, the lack of any variety in builds contribute to the issue, so I also feel that adding different stones, not just eliminate clones, but general variety in types of attacks and stones, such as area of effect, chain stones, stones that do more damage over time other than bleed etc.. would help as it would give new players more variety to play with until they decide whether or not they want to go the glass cannon route.
The thing is, I don't think Eliminates are *meant* to be new player stones. They are (or seem to be) meant for long term players. I am not sure that it was really meant that players would train dragons in a weekend, and thus end up needing eliminates right off the bat.

With how over powered Eliminates are, I feel they were more meant to be 'rewards' for taking your team through training and thus, not meant to be a common stone or even a cheap one. It is due to player influence that they are deemed 'necessary' and something that new players feel they must get. Nearly every guide calls for it, players all over the forums, when mentioning the coliseum, tend to tell new players that eliminates are 'necessary' to grind the coliseum, thus, it creates a high demand. I am not even sure if eliminates are in short supply, as we don't know how many players are actually getting the drops and hoarding them.

I do think that eliminates should drop from all venues, but I don't think the drop rates need to be touched right now, as having them drop from one of the most used areas, the mire, would probably bring their price down. I also don't think they should be cheap, I feel that 250K treasure would be about the right range for a stone like eliminate. Maybe even just a touch more, since once you get eliminates, even on one dragon, you can make it back pretty easily if you are dedicated enough to grinding the coliseum or training/exalting fodder.

I agree that they are helpful and probably should be a touch more common, but I don't necessarily think that it is a problem that they are rare, and feel that it is more the insistence of players on both speed and that eliminates are necessary that is driving their prices up. Also, the lack of any variety in builds contribute to the issue, so I also feel that adding different stones, not just eliminate clones, but general variety in types of attacks and stones, such as area of effect, chain stones, stones that do more damage over time other than bleed etc.. would help as it would give new players more variety to play with until they decide whether or not they want to go the glass cannon route.
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With so much being coli based for game play, elims should be easier to get. As of writing this post the LAH price for elims is 720g/723kt. That's obscene. It should not take 10 days worth of game play to get a singular elim. (Especially considering that with the other stones needed for a fully stoned dragon at minimum brings the price of a well built coli dragon to 954g/972kt. (35g/39kt*3 for ambush, 17g/20kt*2 for berserker, 95g/94kt for rally))

It should not be 1000g/1mil t just to get started with the games main mechanic. That's nuts. Really super nuts. Especially since when I started earnestly coli-ing about 2 years ago it was about 425g/375kt ish??? Like less than half the price. And it was STILL a lot to work towards back then.

Like most flights have a dragon renting program for newbies who want to get into dom, but there's increasingly more risk in that especially since there is no support for someone exalting/selling doing what have you with your lended dragon. At the very least if they dont plan on fixing this they should have some sort of site mechanic for lending coli dragons/breeding pairs. Seriously.
With so much being coli based for game play, elims should be easier to get. As of writing this post the LAH price for elims is 720g/723kt. That's obscene. It should not take 10 days worth of game play to get a singular elim. (Especially considering that with the other stones needed for a fully stoned dragon at minimum brings the price of a well built coli dragon to 954g/972kt. (35g/39kt*3 for ambush, 17g/20kt*2 for berserker, 95g/94kt for rally))

It should not be 1000g/1mil t just to get started with the games main mechanic. That's nuts. Really super nuts. Especially since when I started earnestly coli-ing about 2 years ago it was about 425g/375kt ish??? Like less than half the price. And it was STILL a lot to work towards back then.

Like most flights have a dragon renting program for newbies who want to get into dom, but there's increasingly more risk in that especially since there is no support for someone exalting/selling doing what have you with your lended dragon. At the very least if they dont plan on fixing this they should have some sort of site mechanic for lending coli dragons/breeding pairs. Seriously.
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Looking for stoned Lvl 25s, preferably either Water or Nature. Preferably pretty or with potential. The ghostier/more halloweeny the better! Willing to offer mixed payment.
Guys it's called inflation and demand. It's what happens in a free market, which is essentially what FR is. The drop rates have been standard for a while, and the value of eliminate has just gone up over time, because the demand has gone up with the main builds all utilizing them. This isn't the creators' fault, and as soon as they start controling the market for eliminates, it spills over and they have to start controlling the market for other items, which means soon we'll have no goals to reach anymore. The point of the game isn't to have eliminates at the beginning of the game. We're not entitled to them. you can build a coli team with other stones and slowly cycle through those stones until you have the best possible build. That's how the game was originally intended. Its just how no one is entitled to start a business with an already built factory to produce a product. You start at the bottom and work your way up.
Guys it's called inflation and demand. It's what happens in a free market, which is essentially what FR is. The drop rates have been standard for a while, and the value of eliminate has just gone up over time, because the demand has gone up with the main builds all utilizing them. This isn't the creators' fault, and as soon as they start controling the market for eliminates, it spills over and they have to start controlling the market for other items, which means soon we'll have no goals to reach anymore. The point of the game isn't to have eliminates at the beginning of the game. We're not entitled to them. you can build a coli team with other stones and slowly cycle through those stones until you have the best possible build. That's how the game was originally intended. Its just how no one is entitled to start a business with an already built factory to produce a product. You start at the bottom and work your way up.
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I support them dropping in all venues. This would help people train and exalt dragons faster. Which yes, would probably cause treasure inflation and would require another treasure sink, but would also help a whole lot with getting people interested in Dom and processing dragons through the market.
I support them dropping in all venues. This would help people train and exalt dragons faster. Which yes, would probably cause treasure inflation and would require another treasure sink, but would also help a whole lot with getting people interested in Dom and processing dragons through the market.
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@Jemadar [quote name="Jemadar" date="2018-12-16 19:27:02" ] ... I agree that they are helpful and probably should be a touch more common, but I don't necessarily think that it is a problem that they are rare, and feel that it is more the insistence of players on both speed and that eliminates are necessary that is driving their prices up. Also, the lack of any variety in builds contribute to the issue, so I also feel that adding different stones, not just eliminate clones, but general variety in types of attacks and stones, such as area of effect, chain stones, stones that do more damage over time other than bleed etc.. would help as it would give new players more variety to play with until they decide whether or not they want to go the glass cannon route. [/quote] I do like where you're going with this bit - the option for the brewing of a similar stone would be a feasible solution I think? Maybe make it a mid level brew like level 12-14 with rarer materials (similar to genes/eggs) It wouldn't even need to be an Elim clone but something that works similarly - gaining back even partial breath or a chance to do addtl dmg on creatures missing health? And doing this for similar stones such as rally and haste. The problem with eliminate and why everyone includes it as a must is because of the fact that damage output wise none of the other "attacks" they have even get close. Even if it didn't gain back all of the breath it expended it still does the most damage. The fact that upon a kill you get it free just blows competing stones out of the water.
@Jemadar
Jemadar wrote on 2018-12-16 19:27:02:
... I agree that they are helpful and probably should be a touch more common, but I don't necessarily think that it is a problem that they are rare, and feel that it is more the insistence of players on both speed and that eliminates are necessary that is driving their prices up. Also, the lack of any variety in builds contribute to the issue, so I also feel that adding different stones, not just eliminate clones, but general variety in types of attacks and stones, such as area of effect, chain stones, stones that do more damage over time other than bleed etc.. would help as it would give new players more variety to play with until they decide whether or not they want to go the glass cannon route.

I do like where you're going with this bit - the option for the brewing of a similar stone would be a feasible solution I think? Maybe make it a mid level brew like level 12-14 with rarer materials (similar to genes/eggs) It wouldn't even need to be an Elim clone but something that works similarly - gaining back even partial breath or a chance to do addtl dmg on creatures missing health? And doing this for similar stones such as rally and haste.

The problem with eliminate and why everyone includes it as a must is because of the fact that damage output wise none of the other "attacks" they have even get close. Even if it didn't gain back all of the breath it expended it still does the most damage. The fact that upon a kill you get it free just blows competing stones out of the water.
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Looking for stoned Lvl 25s, preferably either Water or Nature. Preferably pretty or with potential. The ghostier/more halloweeny the better! Willing to offer mixed payment.
@Frivilosity

Yeah, I know why eliminate is considered so necessary, which is also what makes it so overpowered. Even with having attacks that do similar damage, the fact that eliminate refunds the breath upon a kill would still make it considered 'vital' to the coliseum.

There have been other suggestions like I mentioned, many of them in fact. I really want area of attack stones such as fire ball that will do 100/50/25% damage. (only time 25% comes in is with 4 opponents), or chain stones such as chain lightning that will do 100/50/25 to 3 opponents. Just think of the various attacks RPGs have, and think of how they could be converted to FR.

I would also love 'bombs' where we can take health potions (the red ones) and turn them into either beneficial buffs for our team (thus potentially freeing the necessity of having a stone to do it, but perhaps the potion is slightly weaker) or attacks that will give elemental effects. These won't necessarily help the eliminate issue, but they could be fun anyways, and it could potentially help newer players who don't have a full team of eliminate dragons with doing damage with dragons that don't have particularly high skills.

I don't think the potions should really be based upon the skill of the dragon, as it wouldn't really make much sense, but rather have, like the health potions, weak, normal and strong potions that will do damage and add debuffs accordingly.

I don't think that we necessarily should change any existing stones, nor do I think we need simple eliminate clones, even weaker versions, but rather just expand the variety of stones, allowing players the chance to play around with various builds before they decide. Depending on the stones and how they work, there may even be some builds that take the place of eliminate builds, even if there isn't a breath refund. (for instance, say having a Fire dragon hit all three opponents with a fire ball, then have your one eliminate dragon eliminate them, and so on. Even having stones that only do scratch level damage to the opponents could be helpful in higher levels, and not having breath refunded would mean they wouldn't become too overpowered hopefully)

One other thing that could be looked into (by the developers) would be attacks that both do damage to the opponent and add a buff or heal the dragon or an ally. (do we already have these? Sort of like vampiric touch)

@Frivilosity

Yeah, I know why eliminate is considered so necessary, which is also what makes it so overpowered. Even with having attacks that do similar damage, the fact that eliminate refunds the breath upon a kill would still make it considered 'vital' to the coliseum.

There have been other suggestions like I mentioned, many of them in fact. I really want area of attack stones such as fire ball that will do 100/50/25% damage. (only time 25% comes in is with 4 opponents), or chain stones such as chain lightning that will do 100/50/25 to 3 opponents. Just think of the various attacks RPGs have, and think of how they could be converted to FR.

I would also love 'bombs' where we can take health potions (the red ones) and turn them into either beneficial buffs for our team (thus potentially freeing the necessity of having a stone to do it, but perhaps the potion is slightly weaker) or attacks that will give elemental effects. These won't necessarily help the eliminate issue, but they could be fun anyways, and it could potentially help newer players who don't have a full team of eliminate dragons with doing damage with dragons that don't have particularly high skills.

I don't think the potions should really be based upon the skill of the dragon, as it wouldn't really make much sense, but rather have, like the health potions, weak, normal and strong potions that will do damage and add debuffs accordingly.

I don't think that we necessarily should change any existing stones, nor do I think we need simple eliminate clones, even weaker versions, but rather just expand the variety of stones, allowing players the chance to play around with various builds before they decide. Depending on the stones and how they work, there may even be some builds that take the place of eliminate builds, even if there isn't a breath refund. (for instance, say having a Fire dragon hit all three opponents with a fire ball, then have your one eliminate dragon eliminate them, and so on. Even having stones that only do scratch level damage to the opponents could be helpful in higher levels, and not having breath refunded would mean they wouldn't become too overpowered hopefully)

One other thing that could be looked into (by the developers) would be attacks that both do damage to the opponent and add a buff or heal the dragon or an ally. (do we already have these? Sort of like vampiric touch)

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Let them Serve the Deities
Let them Exist in peace!
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