Suggestions

I quite like this idea, but at the same time I also like that hatchlings use the same art for both sexes.

I know there would be massive community backlash if people's permababies suddenly changed. I think maybe keep the original hatchling pose as it is now, and introduce a pose change item for those that would like alternate hatchling art?

[quote name="Jemadar" date="2018-12-10 14:10:58" ] [quote name="Feverchild" date="2018-12-10 13:58:38" ] I don't see why permababies that are already permababed could t just stay the way they are, and new dragons from then on would be the new art. This would make 'wrong gender' permababes worth more, for sure, but FR has already done things like this by no longer allowing you to have 2 letter names and the such. Although there is still the small problem of people planning to permababes a dragon, and then the art changes, this could be fixed with an announcement of what they are going to do. [/quote] The problem is that if this were brought in, the staff would most likely make it sex linked, just like the current poses. So, if the current art is deemed 'male' then all female permababies would have their art changed to the new art, because that is the female hatchling art. I think it would be a ton more work to exclude current permababies from being changed, and that would leave out those that WANT their permababies to change or they have the wrong sex for the art they want to show up. [/quote] I don't see how people could complain about their art [i]not[/i] being changed, if they already chose to permababe a dragon knowing what art it would turn to. It's not like they would have known about the new art when they chose to permababe (unless there's an announcement, in which case they could just wait until after it has been made), so it's not like you'd take away something they worked towards.

As someone who owns a large number of permababies and has invested significant amounts of dragon cash in them, I would rather not their art be changed on me without my consent, and I do not consent to this. I would only support bringing in the new hatchling art as an option for future permababies, not changing the existing ones, and as things stand I think that would be a lot of coding to exclude the current permababies on-site from the change.

Overall, I would rather have the option for apparel/skins for permababies, and new breeds.

I would be alright with it...

IF and this is a big if - but IF it was brought in along side another popular suggestion - the Pose Change Scroll.

If we could swap poses then the argument of changing existing art is muted, although not completely done away with. But it would bridge that gap certainly.

It would also open up the possibility that existing permababies' art stays the same as the 'wrong gender' babies could act as if they're already effected with the scroll and new ones can be swapped to the preferred pose. They still might spike in price since you wouldn't have to purchase a scroll but it wouldn't be a long lived one if it even spikes at all.

It would solve the problem of potentially creating a 'market' for unchanged babies since they wouldn't act as 'glitched' dragons. We certainly don't need another neopets situation on our hands where we're swapping un-art-swapped pets for millions upon billions of currency because "wow the status"

The only real issue I forsee is how exactly the staff will handle that. With the coli rewrite we all got 3 tinctures because you can have 3 dragons on a team. The problem with that... is that most people have a lot more than 3 coli dragons. So if they DO do this then depending on how they handle the pose changing I could see it getting... messy. "Oh we're giving everyone 1 pose change for permababy art" and then you look at the mono-permababy lairs and think... "oof"

But I imagine, while it might be a bit of work... keeping the already permababied dragons pose changed to the previously default art would solve that. I'm not just sure if that's possible or not.

Either way, it COULD potentially be something that could work. But only under very specific conditions. And until those conditions are met, sadly, it's not exactly viable to just swap everyone's art and hope that they're okay with it.

But in the long run, even if some of the art is already done - I'd prefer they focus on new breeds and the possibility of apparel on hatchlings (more-so new breeds but still) or a number of other things rather than this. I certainly wouldn't mind more art related updates that weren't constant apparel releases but... I'll admit. I'm less concerned with Permababies in that regard

[quote name="Aelf" date="2018-12-12 10:09:03" ] Like has been said a MILLION times, pose changing scrolls are NEVER going to happen because tens of thousands of users would essentially have their faces spat in for the years that they've worked on their breeding projects and it's a complete corruption of the entire mechanics of the fictional breeding of the site. They're also FAR from on topic here, so that's annoying for people who actually want to discuss the suggestion on hand here. No, and it's never going to happen unless they introduce a third pose you can only get through the scroll. Even removing the genders and just being dragon type x or dragon type y is not going to remove the dual pose CORE of the breeding system. If someone uses them in their answer to your suggestion, their opinion is based on dreams and wishes that MIGHT happen rather than the reality of the actual site. [/quote] [url=http://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/1169730]Pose change[/url] and Gender change scrolls are not the same idea. A pose change scroll would change nothing but the pose and not effect gender in the slightest. Which would do nothing to previously completed breeding projects and wouldn't interfere with site mechanics at all. So i'm not sure where you're coming from here. However, as stated, it's not on topic. However, bringing them up in this topic has a use. We're discussing the suggestion. At it's core - of just adding the 2nd hatchling artwork would essentially "Spit in the faces of all the users who worked towards their breeding projects" to have the perfectly gendered and gened dragon that they could permababy. So in order for the core suggestion to be introduced without alienating a LARGE portion of the userbase - other ideas besides "just do it" need to be suggested or discussed. Which is why myself and others brought it up. So I welcome anyone else with suggestions on how this could potentially work without harming other peoples hard work.

I support this also because it stops people from buying a hatchling to be part of a breeding pair before realizing it's the wrong gender. I know I used to assay bloodlines and buy straight away once I see they're far enough removed.
It's a small problem that can be solved by... actually thinking twice before buying a dragon. But it's another reason why it's a good idea to have the two hatchling art.

However because of this i do not support pose change scrolls. If they bring out the second hatchling art, just apply it to all new hachlings and permababes from then on. That way no previous eternal youth dragons are effected, so no one can be upset about their dragons changing.

[quote name="Feverchild" date="2018-12-13 00:55:50" ] If they bring out the second hatchling art, just apply it to all new hachlings and permababes from then on. That way no previous eternal youth dragons are effected, so no one can be upset about their dragons changing. [/quote] What about those that want the new hatchling art then? Are they stuck trying to Rebreed or worse, rehatch (in terms of G1s) their exact permababies again? The eye update showed how unhappy people are when they aren't allowed to participate with dragons that already exist. I'm disregarding pose change discussion here as that's not the topic I'm genuinely curious about the proposed fix for this issue as - others in the thread have mentioned - going off the eye update. If they did this it would cause a lot more animosity especially AFTER the fallout from the eye update hit and is continuing to fester. Releasing another update that older dragons are excluded from seems the wrong way to go imho

[quote name="@AlphaSobek" date="2018-12-13 01:19:04" ] What about those that want the new hatchling art then? Are they stuck trying to Rebreed or worse, rehatch (in terms of G1s) their exact permababies again? [/quote] They could, in theory, pay through the nose to grow their dragon up and then permababy them over again, and then presumably they'd get the new art. But an expensive fix existing wouldn't eliminate the animosity, I'd think. If all hatchlings and permababies of the given gender got forcibly changed to the new pose, there would be an uproar. The eyes were bad enough, but permababies are [b]explicitly[/b] something people have to spend gems to get. If 'old' permababies were grandfathered out of the art change, see above - someone with a male permababy Ridgeback, say, might like the new art better and feel cheated that they need to use an expensive workaround to get it (after already having paid for one EY scroll, they'd have to buy a Maturity scroll [b]and[/b] another EY scroll) while all future male Ridgebacks would only need that first EY scroll. If, however, pose-change ([b]not[/b] gender-change) scrolls were already a thing, they could even offer free account-locked pose-change scrolls to accounts which have permababies at the time the new hatchling poses launch. Everyone could pick the art they like best for each of their current PBs. Seems like the least salt-generating way to go about it.

[quote name="@Lara8" date="2018-12-13 02:44:33" ] If 'old' permababies were grandfathered out of the art change, see above - someone with a male permababy Ridgeback, say, might like the new art better and feel cheated that they need to use an expensive workaround to get it (after already having paid for one EY scroll, they'd have to buy a Maturity scroll [b]and[/b] another EY scroll) while all future male Ridgebacks would only need that first EY scroll. [/quote] I'll admit I hadn't actually registered the potential work-around and as expensive and unwieldy as it is - at least there would be one. Thank you for reminding me those scrolls existed ([s]even if we're talking directly about them, ha it's been a long day, whoops[/s]). Even if another method would be preferable. Then again, as mentioned, if that IS the only solution without adding new items or scrolls then I could also see them (possibly) doing something similar to the coli rewrite. Where they give each account X number of maturity/EY scrolls. Although based off the coli rewrite I don't... I mean I get the reason behind only giving 3 tincture... I do... but if we're basing it off the same sort of idea then giving everyone 1 free (locked probably) Maturity Scroll and 1 free (locked probably) Eternal Youth Scroll... I would just [i]feel[/i] for the mono permababie lairs. Just like I did for my 10+ lvl 25s. It's also a clunky solution. Giving out 2 separate scrolls with the assumtion that people will immediately understand their use and not sell (if un-locked) or waste/use them before they realized what they were for. I suppose they could be a 'special' item that gives a pop up but now we're getting into a situation where it's more work then it's really worth I think. But it is a solution I suppose. Which, even if clunky and perhaps anger inducing... is still a solution. More-so then scattersighs were anyway.