[quote name="Meowfred" date="2018-10-28 00:34:24" ]
But to ask this developing feature to be taken away from other players too just because one wouldn't use it HIMSELF would not be logical. So instead of bashing the new features, why not instead keep bugging the developers and let them know that regular lair spaces is still much wanted even after hibernal den is in place? xD
P.S.: Though that does make me wonder, if we get regular lair cap increase + an optional "lock" feature, that pretty covers the functions of hibernal den without messing up some people's lair orders..... ummmm
[/quote]
Whoa whoa whoa, I don't think I've seen [i]anyone[/i] say that they want the feature taken away. Sure, some don't really want/like the feature, may find it useless to themselves, but no one wants it taken away. There definitely hasn't been any mention of it in this thread.
Like... I don't mind them adding the feature, but I want more space with it, since the Den will be barely useful for me. I'll be tossing my minor deity dragon into it because that works, since he's behind the scenes and all, and some dragons that... ahem, will pass away in lore eventually will be put in there so any work I've done on them will be put to waste, but otherwise, this feature really isn't for me. But do I want it to be ripped away from people who [i]do[/i] want it? No.
People want space [i]with[/i] the feature, not just the feature, and not just the space.
Also that lock feature would be rad. I would love that, wouldn't have to mess with lair order, and I can toss in, like, my bab Endyt in there because I'm not planning to breed or level him [i]ever[/i].
Meowfred wrote on 2018-10-28 00:34:24:
But to ask this developing feature to be taken away from other players too just because one wouldn't use it HIMSELF would not be logical. So instead of bashing the new features, why not instead keep bugging the developers and let them know that regular lair spaces is still much wanted even after hibernal den is in place? xD
P.S.: Though that does make me wonder, if we get regular lair cap increase + an optional "lock" feature, that pretty covers the functions of hibernal den without messing up some people's lair orders..... ummmm
Whoa whoa whoa, I don't think I've seen
anyone say that they want the feature taken away. Sure, some don't really want/like the feature, may find it useless to themselves, but no one wants it taken away. There definitely hasn't been any mention of it in this thread.
Like... I don't mind them adding the feature, but I want more space with it, since the Den will be barely useful for me. I'll be tossing my minor deity dragon into it because that works, since he's behind the scenes and all, and some dragons that... ahem, will pass away in lore eventually will be put in there so any work I've done on them will be put to waste, but otherwise, this feature really isn't for me. But do I want it to be ripped away from people who
do want it? No.
People want space
with the feature, not just the feature, and not just the space.
Also that lock feature would be rad. I would love that, wouldn't have to mess with lair order, and I can toss in, like, my bab Endyt in there because I'm not planning to breed or level him
ever.
To anyone who thinks we're "bashing" the Hibernal Den or that we're being too negative and are being Debby Downers, I'd like to point something out.
If a lot of us seem critical in this thread, it's because WE CARE. We genuinely care about Flight Rising. We care about the longevity of this game from both the player and developer perspectives. (As presumptuous as that may sound.) We care about having a feature that the devs have spent a lot of time be the best that it can be for as many people as possible.
I may not use the Hibernal Den to its full extent when it comes out, but I certainly do NOT want this feature to end up flopping completely because it didn't address the lair space dilemma sufficiently. Or that the restrictions were so punishing that most players end up being deterred from utilizing the feature at all. Because that would mean that the devs spent 1-2 years putting bells and whistles on a new feature that no one really asked for.
If we didn't care, do you honestly think we would have spent 8 months commenting in a 70-page thread discussing lair management and the Hibernal Den (as it was described at the time), feeding and gathering issues, lair expansion costs and alternatives to it, Coli loadout issues and possible solutions to it...all from a variety of players with different play styles and different lair sizes?
Anyways, I've been trying to think of possible alternatives to the 30-day cooldown for dragons you take out of the Hibernal Den to make it less punishing overall and more appealing to those of us who do interact with our dragons a lot.
If the cooldown could be reduced to, say, a week (7 days) instead of a month, that would honestly solve 60% of my complaints with the Den. It's still not non-storage lair slots, but I can at least consider putting my breeding pairs with lengthy breeding CDs in there instead of, y'know, none of my breeding pairs.
However, to compensate for the drastically reduced CD, perhaps once the dragon is removed from the Den, they've only got about half their energy bar available. (Because animals who come out of hibernation tend to be really hungry since they were surviving off stores of fat they built up prior to hibernating.) So you can use that dragon immediately to Coli or breed, if you need to, but it would behoove you to feed them and get them up to full energy as soon as you can.
Or perhaps just have it so instead of a several-day cooldown period, when you take a dragon out of the Den you can't use it for anything for 24 hours (and it also has its energy bar depleted). No Coli, no breeding, no selling/trading, and you also can't put that dragon back in the Den for that 24-hour period. It needs time to "wake up" and shake the icicles off from being stuck in an icebox storage and be properly fed.
Because if the point of the Hibernal Den is so that you don't have to feed your dragons, then by taking the dragon back to your active lair, you're saying that you're now in a position to take care of that dragon's needs. And if you aren't, then you won't take it back into your lair, simple as that.
To anyone who thinks we're "bashing" the Hibernal Den or that we're being too negative and are being Debby Downers, I'd like to point something out.
If a lot of us seem critical in this thread, it's because WE CARE. We genuinely care about Flight Rising. We care about the longevity of this game from both the player and developer perspectives. (As presumptuous as that may sound.) We care about having a feature that the devs have spent a lot of time be the best that it can be for as many people as possible.
I may not use the Hibernal Den to its full extent when it comes out, but I certainly do NOT want this feature to end up flopping completely because it didn't address the lair space dilemma sufficiently. Or that the restrictions were so punishing that most players end up being deterred from utilizing the feature at all. Because that would mean that the devs spent 1-2 years putting bells and whistles on a new feature that no one really asked for.
If we didn't care, do you honestly think we would have spent 8 months commenting in a 70-page thread discussing lair management and the Hibernal Den (as it was described at the time), feeding and gathering issues, lair expansion costs and alternatives to it, Coli loadout issues and possible solutions to it...all from a variety of players with different play styles and different lair sizes?
Anyways, I've been trying to think of possible alternatives to the 30-day cooldown for dragons you take out of the Hibernal Den to make it less punishing overall and more appealing to those of us who do interact with our dragons a lot.
If the cooldown could be reduced to, say, a week (7 days) instead of a month, that would honestly solve 60% of my complaints with the Den. It's still not non-storage lair slots, but I can at least consider putting my breeding pairs with lengthy breeding CDs in there instead of, y'know, none of my breeding pairs.
However, to compensate for the drastically reduced CD, perhaps once the dragon is removed from the Den, they've only got about half their energy bar available. (Because animals who come out of hibernation tend to be really hungry since they were surviving off stores of fat they built up prior to hibernating.) So you can use that dragon immediately to Coli or breed, if you need to, but it would behoove you to feed them and get them up to full energy as soon as you can.
Or perhaps just have it so instead of a several-day cooldown period, when you take a dragon out of the Den you can't use it for anything for 24 hours (and it also has its energy bar depleted). No Coli, no breeding, no selling/trading, and you also can't put that dragon back in the Den for that 24-hour period. It needs time to "wake up" and shake the icicles off from being stuck in an icebox storage and be properly fed.
Because if the point of the Hibernal Den is so that you don't have to feed your dragons, then by taking the dragon back to your active lair, you're saying that you're now in a position to take care of that dragon's needs. And if you aren't, then you won't take it back into your lair, simple as that.
[quote name="Ragnarok42" date="2018-10-28 01:18:52" ]
@Meowfred
We're not "bashing" the new features or asking them to be taken away, nor are we "bashing" on anyone who will find use in them. We're outlining why the feature in question won't work for us personally to solve the problem that the den seems to have been intended as the final ultimate fix for, because every single time we bring up that we're in need of more normal lair slots somebody always says "but what about the hibernal den" and we have to keep explaining it. No one here was ever asking for it to be removed or cancelled. What we're asking for is to be given a regular lair cap raise with it. I'm willing to bet that if you personally asked any one random person on this thread, they'd tell you they're not at all opposed to the den being a thing, are totally fine with having it, might even be actively looking forward to it for one reason or another, they just don't want it to be a permanent replacement for standard lairspace that we literally can't keep playing the game without.
And the reason people on here are getting so grumpy is because it's been more than two years since the last regular lair cap raise and what precious little communication we've had on the subject since then has consisted of 1-"We're making a freezer thing. Your dragons will be completely inert and it won't be done for another year at minimum anyway." 2-a small assortment of vague comments heavily implying that the dev team is generally opposed to the idea of raising the cap for unknown reasons (something about "we wonder if it's really the best way to do it"), 3-some long-debunked excuses about food (which most people at the cap don't suffer from and it could be easily fixed by scaling the amount of food points you get with gathering level anyway) and another excuse about coli loadouts which could be fixed by arranging eligible dragons into pages rather than loading all at once, and 4-every single old thread and comment on the subject silently vanishing when someone on the announcement thread pointed out that there was a thread with 70 pages worth of posts. I'd be amazed if people didn't start getting cranky after being brushed off and made to feel like they're not wanted anymore for so long, especially when we keep getting called entitled babies and told to just man up and toss out our permas cause if we have that many then we're not playing the 'right' way every single time we bring it up.
The staff said in the beginning that they didn't want to force any specific "right" playstyle, but that's exactly what's happening now, because if you don't play the game one of a few specific ways then you'll only be able to actually do anything on FR for a certain amount of time before you'll end up locked out of all but the forums and flash games. And a game that punishes you for loving it isn't a very well-designed game.
Edit: Not to mention that there really isn't any significant reason i can think of to oppose getting more regular space. Unlike just getting the den and nothing else everyone would be able to benefit from it regardless of playstyle, maxed-out people would be satisfied for awhile, the lair tabs system would now have an even number of slots, nobody loses and the people feeling left out by the implied final nature of the den wouldn't be feeling left out anymore. And if the servers can handle the strain of open reg AND the den, i'd imagine they can handle one more page of normal lair slots.
[/quote]
@Ragnarok42 well said!!
To those who think we are silly.. Well lets first view what the game really is about shall we.
From the site overview:
[quote]Flight Rising is a social web-based activity site featuring dragon [b]breeding,[/b] adventuring, combat, and [b]collecting[/b]. It puts you in control of your own clan of dragons, allowing you to control their [b]mating habits[/b], specialize their abilities and traits, and adorn them thousands of different ways with a variety of apparel.[/quote]
This site is ABOUT breeding and collecting.. and when there is a limit to the CORE purpose of the game that is the reason why we are upset.
We are being punished for wanting to use the MAIN reason for this game, which are [b]breeding[/b] and collecting!! The other things are benefits.
It´s the same reason I dont have eternal youth hatchlings.. whilst pretty I want to breed!!
To quote another use who put it better than me
[quote name="butcherbaby" date="2018-10-27 23:17:35" ]
[quote name="hat17" date="2018-10-27 21:17:38" ]
[quote name="Lara8" date="2018-10-27 21:07:18" ]
[quote name="@hat17" date="2018-10-27 13:21:33" ]
I'm just so happy about getting more spaces to put my overflood dragons then I walked into this thread.
[/quote]
No, I get where you're coming from. I'm 100% always in favor of more 'real' space, but I also think it's up to individual players whether, in their lore, the hibernal den is a portrait gallery or just a separate location where their dragons can live. Just like we're allowed to decide for ourselves what it means to exalt a dragon or sell it on the Auction House in terms of our clan's story.
[/quote]
True, but what I feel is, since this hibernal den is a feature that not yet live, it means we, as players, can decide what you want it to mean from scratch. There's no need to restrict it as 'hibernation' or 'portrait gallery' right now when the thing isn't real yet. Lore is flexible, and I'm sure for everyone's talent it won't be difficult to come up with a few explanations that will fit and satisfy each lore. I just feel it's the 'hibernation' and the mention of 'display gallery' that had put most people off. Maybe it's not, but lore isn't a very strong argument point for this current discussion, imo.
[/quote]
@hat17
I don’t lore, it’s something I have ZERO interest in. I don’t do bios, unless it already came with a dragon. I don’t roleplay, my dragons are not OCs or characters of any kind, they are nothing but pretty (and sometimes expensive) pixels to me. I don’t have to “pretend” that the ‘Hibernal Den’ is a vacation so it will somehow fit into my totally non-existent lore. That the name “seems” to mean a certain thing is 100% NOT the problem I have with the Den.
The problem I have with the Den is that, as they are currently describing it, it is USELESS to me. Absolutely, utterly, completely useless.
I breed ALL my dragons. I have multiple coli teams and would like to eventually level up ALL my favorites. I breed EVERY dragon that has a mate, including g1s, am looking for mates for the rest, and actually only have one, single, solitary fan dragon that I *probably* wont breed, but that’s not for sure, and he’s on the list of those I want to train for coli. I don’t have any useless “reps”, or dragons that I don’t interact with regularly. And a large number still don’t have permanent & awakened familiars.
So basically, I have NO dragons that I actually WANT to send on “vacation”, for any length of time, but even more important, there is the matter of my lair ORDER. My lair is carefully arranged in a certain order, just the way I want it to be. Even if I DID have a few dragons I was OK with putting on cold storage, I wouldn’t, because I am NOT willing to destroy the carefully arranged aesthetic order of my lair. Remember, I have NO lore whatsoever, and I can’t come up with storified a “workaround” for changing my lair order, because I do it simply because I think it’s lovely that way. And I refuse to wreck it because they are too stubborn to give us more lairspace.
It MIGHT have been useful to me if I could just cycle dragons in & out as necessary, because then I could at least hatch nests & participate in Dom again, but the ridiculous 30 return cool down makes that really unlikely to be more than minimally useful. And it STILL doesn’t replace more regular lairspace because I will never have more slots for new dragons without being FORCED into using the Den, a feature I DONT WANT TO USE.
So basically, no matter WHAT you call it - the Hibernal Den, the Gallery, the Day Spa, Dragon Vacation, The Room of Cold Death, whatever- it’s not going to be useful for me, or the many other people who posted in the old 70+ page thread over several months, or are posting here, and who have been *begging* admins for [i]more regular lairspace PLEASE[/i] for a really long time.
The den is a FINE idea for some, and for those people- HURRAH! It’s not going to help a LOT of people, the people who are the serious users, who spend a lot of time and/or IRL money supporting the site. And as I said before, that’s just bad business.
[/quote]
We want to breed and collect and we are being punished for it... thats why we are upset. i dont expect to make profit on my dragons.. I exalt 98 % maybe more of the hatchlings I make.. I just want to be able to breed!!
Ragnarok42 wrote on 2018-10-28 01:18:52:
@
Meowfred
We're not "bashing" the new features or asking them to be taken away, nor are we "bashing" on anyone who will find use in them. We're outlining why the feature in question won't work for us personally to solve the problem that the den seems to have been intended as the final ultimate fix for, because every single time we bring up that we're in need of more normal lair slots somebody always says "but what about the hibernal den" and we have to keep explaining it. No one here was ever asking for it to be removed or cancelled. What we're asking for is to be given a regular lair cap raise with it. I'm willing to bet that if you personally asked any one random person on this thread, they'd tell you they're not at all opposed to the den being a thing, are totally fine with having it, might even be actively looking forward to it for one reason or another, they just don't want it to be a permanent replacement for standard lairspace that we literally can't keep playing the game without.
And the reason people on here are getting so grumpy is because it's been more than two years since the last regular lair cap raise and what precious little communication we've had on the subject since then has consisted of 1-"We're making a freezer thing. Your dragons will be completely inert and it won't be done for another year at minimum anyway." 2-a small assortment of vague comments heavily implying that the dev team is generally opposed to the idea of raising the cap for unknown reasons (something about "we wonder if it's really the best way to do it"), 3-some long-debunked excuses about food (which most people at the cap don't suffer from and it could be easily fixed by scaling the amount of food points you get with gathering level anyway) and another excuse about coli loadouts which could be fixed by arranging eligible dragons into pages rather than loading all at once, and 4-every single old thread and comment on the subject silently vanishing when someone on the announcement thread pointed out that there was a thread with 70 pages worth of posts. I'd be amazed if people didn't start getting cranky after being brushed off and made to feel like they're not wanted anymore for so long, especially when we keep getting called entitled babies and told to just man up and toss out our permas cause if we have that many then we're not playing the 'right' way every single time we bring it up.
The staff said in the beginning that they didn't want to force any specific "right" playstyle, but that's exactly what's happening now, because if you don't play the game one of a few specific ways then you'll only be able to actually do anything on FR for a certain amount of time before you'll end up locked out of all but the forums and flash games. And a game that punishes you for loving it isn't a very well-designed game.
Edit: Not to mention that there really isn't any significant reason i can think of to oppose getting more regular space. Unlike just getting the den and nothing else everyone would be able to benefit from it regardless of playstyle, maxed-out people would be satisfied for awhile, the lair tabs system would now have an even number of slots, nobody loses and the people feeling left out by the implied final nature of the den wouldn't be feeling left out anymore. And if the servers can handle the strain of open reg AND the den, i'd imagine they can handle one more page of normal lair slots.
@
Ragnarok42 well said!!
To those who think we are silly.. Well lets first view what the game really is about shall we.
From the site overview:
Quote:
Flight Rising is a social web-based activity site featuring dragon breeding, adventuring, combat, and collecting. It puts you in control of your own clan of dragons, allowing you to control their mating habits, specialize their abilities and traits, and adorn them thousands of different ways with a variety of apparel.
This site is ABOUT breeding and collecting.. and when there is a limit to the CORE purpose of the game that is the reason why we are upset.
We are being punished for wanting to use the MAIN reason for this game, which are
breeding and collecting!! The other things are benefits.
It´s the same reason I dont have eternal youth hatchlings.. whilst pretty I want to breed!!
To quote another use who put it better than me
butcherbaby wrote on 2018-10-27 23:17:35:
hat17 wrote on 2018-10-27 21:17:38:
Lara8 wrote on 2018-10-27 21:07:18:
@
hat17 wrote on 2018-10-27 13:21:33:
I'm just so happy about getting more spaces to put my overflood dragons then I walked into this thread.
No, I get where you're coming from. I'm 100% always in favor of more 'real' space, but I also think it's up to individual players whether, in their lore, the hibernal den is a portrait gallery or just a separate location where their dragons can live. Just like we're allowed to decide for ourselves what it means to exalt a dragon or sell it on the Auction House in terms of our clan's story.
True, but what I feel is, since this hibernal den is a feature that not yet live, it means we, as players, can decide what you want it to mean from scratch. There's no need to restrict it as 'hibernation' or 'portrait gallery' right now when the thing isn't real yet. Lore is flexible, and I'm sure for everyone's talent it won't be difficult to come up with a few explanations that will fit and satisfy each lore. I just feel it's the 'hibernation' and the mention of 'display gallery' that had put most people off. Maybe it's not, but lore isn't a very strong argument point for this current discussion, imo.
@
hat17
I don’t lore, it’s something I have ZERO interest in. I don’t do bios, unless it already came with a dragon. I don’t roleplay, my dragons are not OCs or characters of any kind, they are nothing but pretty (and sometimes expensive) pixels to me. I don’t have to “pretend” that the ‘Hibernal Den’ is a vacation so it will somehow fit into my totally non-existent lore. That the name “seems” to mean a certain thing is 100% NOT the problem I have with the Den.
The problem I have with the Den is that, as they are currently describing it, it is USELESS to me. Absolutely, utterly, completely useless.
I breed ALL my dragons. I have multiple coli teams and would like to eventually level up ALL my favorites. I breed EVERY dragon that has a mate, including g1s, am looking for mates for the rest, and actually only have one, single, solitary fan dragon that I *probably* wont breed, but that’s not for sure, and he’s on the list of those I want to train for coli. I don’t have any useless “reps”, or dragons that I don’t interact with regularly. And a large number still don’t have permanent & awakened familiars.
So basically, I have NO dragons that I actually WANT to send on “vacation”, for any length of time, but even more important, there is the matter of my lair ORDER. My lair is carefully arranged in a certain order, just the way I want it to be. Even if I DID have a few dragons I was OK with putting on cold storage, I wouldn’t, because I am NOT willing to destroy the carefully arranged aesthetic order of my lair. Remember, I have NO lore whatsoever, and I can’t come up with storified a “workaround” for changing my lair order, because I do it simply because I think it’s lovely that way. And I refuse to wreck it because they are too stubborn to give us more lairspace.
It MIGHT have been useful to me if I could just cycle dragons in & out as necessary, because then I could at least hatch nests & participate in Dom again, but the ridiculous 30 return cool down makes that really unlikely to be more than minimally useful. And it STILL doesn’t replace more regular lairspace because I will never have more slots for new dragons without being FORCED into using the Den, a feature I DONT WANT TO USE.
So basically, no matter WHAT you call it - the Hibernal Den, the Gallery, the Day Spa, Dragon Vacation, The Room of Cold Death, whatever- it’s not going to be useful for me, or the many other people who posted in the old 70+ page thread over several months, or are posting here, and who have been *begging* admins for
more regular lairspace PLEASE for a really long time.
The den is a FINE idea for some, and for those people- HURRAH! It’s not going to help a LOT of people, the people who are the serious users, who spend a lot of time and/or IRL money supporting the site. And as I said before, that’s just bad business.
We want to breed and collect and we are being punished for it... thats why we are upset. i dont expect to make profit on my dragons.. I exalt 98 % maybe more of the hatchlings I make.. I just want to be able to breed!!
NO LONGER ACTIVE.
I LEFT FR AND GIVEN AWAY MY STUFF.
[quote name="Taarnfalk" date="2018-10-28 07:30:23" ]
We want to breed and collect and we are being punished for it... thats why we are upset.
[/quote]
You are literally not being punished - you will be able to put certain parts of your collection in the Hibernal Den and keep other parts of your collections in your active lair for breeding... In addition, just because nothing was said about expanding active lair parts, that doesn't mean it won't happen.
Taarnfalk wrote on 2018-10-28 07:30:23:
We want to breed and collect and we are being punished for it... thats why we are upset.
You are literally not being punished - you will be able to put certain parts of your collection in the Hibernal Den and keep other parts of your collections in your active lair for breeding... In addition, just because nothing was said about expanding active lair parts, that doesn't mean it won't happen.
@
RedWillia I cannot breed the dragons in the Hibernal Den. And I want to freely be able to choose which of my dragons I want to breed. I dont want my dragons hanging around in a Trophy cage
so yes i am being punished for wanting to breed all of my dragons freely
Again to quote another poster
"The problem I have with the Den is that, as they are currently describing it, it is USELESS to me. Absolutely, utterly, completely useless.
it’s not going to be useful for me, or the many other people who posted in the old 70+ page thread over several months, or are posting here, and who have been *begging* admins for more regular lairspace PLEASE for a really long time.
The den is a FINE idea for some, and for those people- HURRAH! It’s not going to help a LOT of people, the people who are the serious users, who spend a lot of time and/or IRL money supporting the site. And as I said before, that’s just bad business."
@
RedWillia I cannot breed the dragons in the Hibernal Den. And I want to freely be able to choose which of my dragons I want to breed. I dont want my dragons hanging around in a Trophy cage
so yes i am being punished for wanting to breed all of my dragons freely
Again to quote another poster
"The problem I have with the Den is that, as they are currently describing it, it is USELESS to me. Absolutely, utterly, completely useless.
it’s not going to be useful for me, or the many other people who posted in the old 70+ page thread over several months, or are posting here, and who have been *begging* admins for more regular lairspace PLEASE for a really long time.
The den is a FINE idea for some, and for those people- HURRAH! It’s not going to help a LOT of people, the people who are the serious users, who spend a lot of time and/or IRL money supporting the site. And as I said before, that’s just bad business."
NO LONGER ACTIVE.
I LEFT FR AND GIVEN AWAY MY STUFF.
@
Taarnfalk
So... keep the dragons you want to breed in the active lair? Considering you can have a max of 5 nests, even if there is no active lair expansion planned, 200 slots would be enough for the majority of people who are interested in breeding (200 slots = 100 pairs =
20 pairs for each nest).
Claiming that it's punishing? That's a slight overreaction because I am having trouble imaging how 20 pairs for each nest is not enough breeding space.
@
Taarnfalk
So... keep the dragons you want to breed in the active lair? Considering you can have a max of 5 nests, even if there is no active lair expansion planned, 200 slots would be enough for the majority of people who are interested in breeding (200 slots = 100 pairs =
20 pairs for each nest).
Claiming that it's punishing? That's a slight overreaction because I am having trouble imaging how 20 pairs for each nest is not enough breeding space.
@RedWillia I respect your view but I disagree. I dont want to limit myself. I dont need a trohpy cage for my dragons.. let alone one with 30 days cd. I want to freely choose between when I breed and which dragons I breed.
The Hibernal Den is useless for many of us here.. Just read some of the comments.. It is an issue we have been debating long.. and its been more than 2 years since we had any more lairspace.
The Hibernal den is NOT lairspace.. with lairspace I can breed who I want when I want.
[quote name="arcaneidolriots" date="2018-10-28 06:14:54" ]
To anyone who thinks we're "bashing" the Hibernal Den or that we're being too negative and are being Debby Downers, I'd like to point something out.
If a lot of us seem critical in this thread, it's because WE CARE. We genuinely care about Flight Rising. We care about the longevity of this game from both the player and developer perspectives. (As presumptuous as that may sound.) We care about having a feature that the devs have spent a lot of time be the best that it can be for as many people as possible.
I may not use the Hibernal Den to its full extent when it comes out, but I certainly do NOT want this feature to end up flopping completely because it didn't address the lair space dilemma sufficiently. Or that the restrictions were so punishing that most players end up being deterred from utilizing the feature at all. Because that would mean that the devs spent 1-2 years putting bells and whistles on a new feature that no one really asked for.
If we didn't care, do you honestly think we would have spent 8 months commenting in a 70-page thread discussing lair management and the Hibernal Den (as it was described at the time), feeding and gathering issues, lair expansion costs and alternatives to it, Coli loadout issues and possible solutions to it...all from a variety of players with different play styles and different lair sizes?
Anyways, I've been trying to think of possible alternatives to the 30-day cooldown for dragons you take out of the Hibernal Den to make it less punishing overall and more appealing to those of us who do interact with our dragons a lot.
If the cooldown could be reduced to, say, a week (7 days) instead of a month, that would honestly solve 60% of my complaints with the Den. It's still not non-storage lair slots, but I can at least consider putting my breeding pairs with lengthy breeding CDs in there instead of, y'know, none of my breeding pairs.
However, to compensate for the drastically reduced CD, perhaps once the dragon is removed from the Den, they've only got about half their energy bar available. (Because animals who come out of hibernation tend to be really hungry since they were surviving off stores of fat they built up prior to hibernating.) So you can use that dragon immediately to Coli or breed, if you need to, but it would behoove you to feed them and get them up to full energy as soon as you can.
Or perhaps just have it so instead of a several-day cooldown period, when you take a dragon out of the Den you can't use it for anything for 24 hours (and it also has its energy bar depleted). No Coli, no breeding, no selling/trading, and you also can't put that dragon back in the Den for that 24-hour period. It needs time to "wake up" and shake the icicles off from being stuck in an icebox storage and be properly fed.
Because if the point of the Hibernal Den is so that you don't have to feed your dragons, then by taking the dragon back to your active lair, you're saying that you're now in a position to take care of that dragon's needs. And if you aren't, then you won't take it back into your lair, simple as that.
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RedWillia I respect your view but I disagree. I dont want to limit myself. I dont need a trohpy cage for my dragons.. let alone one with 30 days cd. I want to freely choose between when I breed and which dragons I breed.
The Hibernal Den is useless for many of us here.. Just read some of the comments.. It is an issue we have been debating long.. and its been more than 2 years since we had any more lairspace.
The Hibernal den is NOT lairspace.. with lairspace I can breed who I want when I want.
arcaneidolriots wrote on 2018-10-28 06:14:54:
To anyone who thinks we're "bashing" the Hibernal Den or that we're being too negative and are being Debby Downers, I'd like to point something out.
If a lot of us seem critical in this thread, it's because WE CARE. We genuinely care about Flight Rising. We care about the longevity of this game from both the player and developer perspectives. (As presumptuous as that may sound.) We care about having a feature that the devs have spent a lot of time be the best that it can be for as many people as possible.
I may not use the Hibernal Den to its full extent when it comes out, but I certainly do NOT want this feature to end up flopping completely because it didn't address the lair space dilemma sufficiently. Or that the restrictions were so punishing that most players end up being deterred from utilizing the feature at all. Because that would mean that the devs spent 1-2 years putting bells and whistles on a new feature that no one really asked for.
If we didn't care, do you honestly think we would have spent 8 months commenting in a 70-page thread discussing lair management and the Hibernal Den (as it was described at the time), feeding and gathering issues, lair expansion costs and alternatives to it, Coli loadout issues and possible solutions to it...all from a variety of players with different play styles and different lair sizes?
Anyways, I've been trying to think of possible alternatives to the 30-day cooldown for dragons you take out of the Hibernal Den to make it less punishing overall and more appealing to those of us who do interact with our dragons a lot.
If the cooldown could be reduced to, say, a week (7 days) instead of a month, that would honestly solve 60% of my complaints with the Den. It's still not non-storage lair slots, but I can at least consider putting my breeding pairs with lengthy breeding CDs in there instead of, y'know, none of my breeding pairs.
However, to compensate for the drastically reduced CD, perhaps once the dragon is removed from the Den, they've only got about half their energy bar available. (Because animals who come out of hibernation tend to be really hungry since they were surviving off stores of fat they built up prior to hibernating.) So you can use that dragon immediately to Coli or breed, if you need to, but it would behoove you to feed them and get them up to full energy as soon as you can.
Or perhaps just have it so instead of a several-day cooldown period, when you take a dragon out of the Den you can't use it for anything for 24 hours (and it also has its energy bar depleted). No Coli, no breeding, no selling/trading, and you also can't put that dragon back in the Den for that 24-hour period. It needs time to "wake up" and shake the icicles off from being stuck in an icebox storage and be properly fed.
Because if the point of the Hibernal Den is so that you don't have to feed your dragons, then by taking the dragon back to your active lair, you're saying that you're now in a position to take care of that dragon's needs. And if you aren't, then you won't take it back into your lair, simple as that.
NO LONGER ACTIVE.
I LEFT FR AND GIVEN AWAY MY STUFF.
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RedWillia
What you suggest doesn't work logistics wise. You cannot store and withdraw however you wish. Which severely limits the options of using the den (as described in various posts before). You cannot just tske a dragon out of storage, breed it for 5 days (or less) and then put it back in to exchange it with the next pair - since the den cooldown would not allow it. Regular lairspace has no such restrictions since you simply have to keep your dragons fed and thats all you have to do. Its less punishing the breeding with a big lair playstyle.
If you enjoy just looking at dragon pictures that is okay. But you are sounding rather condensing towards the players wishing for more space to use their dragons.
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RedWillia
What you suggest doesn't work logistics wise. You cannot store and withdraw however you wish. Which severely limits the options of using the den (as described in various posts before). You cannot just tske a dragon out of storage, breed it for 5 days (or less) and then put it back in to exchange it with the next pair - since the den cooldown would not allow it. Regular lairspace has no such restrictions since you simply have to keep your dragons fed and thats all you have to do. Its less punishing the breeding with a big lair playstyle.
If you enjoy just looking at dragon pictures that is okay. But you are sounding rather condensing towards the players wishing for more space to use their dragons.
I'm not pinging anymore since there is literally no discussion, just repeats of the same old statements without any supporting reasons.
Hibernal Den is not a trophy cage just because you claim it is. Claiming that it's useless for a lot of people is another overgeneralization because a lot of people are also looking forward to it (for example, I want to move all those dragons I'm selling over my threads there and some of my finished G1s; I know that at least several people are excited to start a Nuzlocke challenge or secondary lairs). I am still hazy over what is the exact issue with Hibernal Den expansion because the seemingly main complaint - not enough space for breeding pairs - affects very few people and, with a little planning, probably would affect even less.
I'm not pinging anymore since there is literally no discussion, just repeats of the same old statements without any supporting reasons.
Hibernal Den is not a trophy cage just because you claim it is. Claiming that it's useless for a lot of people is another overgeneralization because a lot of people are also looking forward to it (for example, I want to move all those dragons I'm selling over my threads there and some of my finished G1s; I know that at least several people are excited to start a Nuzlocke challenge or secondary lairs). I am still hazy over what is the exact issue with Hibernal Den expansion because the seemingly main complaint - not enough space for breeding pairs - affects very few people and, with a little planning, probably would affect even less.
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RedWillia it does not effect every few people.. there were a thread 70 PAGES long with A LOT of ppl yielding their consern about not having enough lairspace. It got removed due to semantics instead of being locked and we are working on getting it back.. but we prob wont as all threads regarding lairspace in the announcement also were deleted.
Im glad you enjoy the Hibernal Den and we do not oppose it or hate it.. We just have no use for it as breeders.
But please dont claim that it is not a problem with no more regular lairspace.. because it IS and you would see that if you have read the thread carefully
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RedWillia it does not effect every few people.. there were a thread 70 PAGES long with A LOT of ppl yielding their consern about not having enough lairspace. It got removed due to semantics instead of being locked and we are working on getting it back.. but we prob wont as all threads regarding lairspace in the announcement also were deleted.
Im glad you enjoy the Hibernal Den and we do not oppose it or hate it.. We just have no use for it as breeders.
But please dont claim that it is not a problem with no more regular lairspace.. because it IS and you would see that if you have read the thread carefully
NO LONGER ACTIVE.
I LEFT FR AND GIVEN AWAY MY STUFF.
