Also, the Den can be considered useless to anyone who has a specific lair order as well. The dragons aren't going to be frozen in place, I am assuming, instead being put into a separate tab. Therefore, even if they can have stuff like bios edited and apparel/familiars on, it's still going to be useless to anyone who has a specific lair order, even if they don't do coli or breed (otherwise I'd actually consider using it. I have some I'm never gonna breed or level, but I'm not moving them from their spot. I'm keeping my lair order thanks, since it's organized thanks to lore).
I just hope staff realizes this isn't a solution to lack of lair space, and helps a lot less people than they think as well. It helps the people who have problems feeding their dragons and don't do anything like breed them, but that's it (and also, I haven't seen a single person who's maxed or close who actually have food troubles. Hm.). Anyone who has hatcheries, multiple coli teams, things like that, can't use it without having to stop what they typically do.
It'll be nice to have it, so I'm not against the idea itself, but please, it needs to have more normal lair space added with it.
Also, the Den can be considered useless to anyone who has a specific lair order as well. The dragons aren't going to be frozen in place, I am assuming, instead being put into a separate tab. Therefore, even if they can have stuff like bios edited and apparel/familiars on, it's still going to be useless to anyone who has a specific lair order, even if they don't do coli or breed (otherwise I'd actually consider using it. I have some I'm never gonna breed or level, but I'm not moving them from their spot. I'm keeping my lair order thanks, since it's organized thanks to lore).
I just hope staff realizes this isn't a solution to lack of lair space, and helps a lot less people than they think as well. It helps the people who have problems feeding their dragons and don't do anything like breed them, but that's it (and also, I haven't seen a single person who's maxed or close who actually have food troubles. Hm.). Anyone who has hatcheries, multiple coli teams, things like that, can't use it without having to stop what they typically do.
It'll be nice to have it, so I'm not against the idea itself, but please, it needs to have more normal lair space added with it.
[quote name="hat17" date="2018-10-27 21:17:38" ]
[quote name="Lara8" date="2018-10-27 21:07:18" ]
[quote name="@hat17" date="2018-10-27 13:21:33" ]
I'm just so happy about getting more spaces to put my overflood dragons then I walked into this thread.
[/quote]
No, I get where you're coming from. I'm 100% always in favor of more 'real' space, but I also think it's up to individual players whether, in their lore, the hibernal den is a portrait gallery or just a separate location where their dragons can live. Just like we're allowed to decide for ourselves what it means to exalt a dragon or sell it on the Auction House in terms of our clan's story.
[/quote]
True, but what I feel is, since this hibernal den is a feature that not yet live, it means we, as players, can decide what you want it to mean from scratch. There's no need to restrict it as 'hibernation' or 'portrait gallery' right now when the thing isn't real yet. Lore is flexible, and I'm sure for everyone's talent it won't be difficult to come up with a few explanations that will fit and satisfy each lore. I just feel it's the 'hibernation' and the mention of 'display gallery' that had put most people off. Maybe it's not, but lore isn't a very strong argument point for this current discussion, imo.
[/quote]
@hat17
I don’t lore, it’s something I have ZERO interest in. I don’t do bios, unless it already came with a dragon. I don’t roleplay, my dragons are not OCs or characters of any kind, they are nothing but pretty (and sometimes expensive) pixels to me. I don’t have to “pretend” that the ‘Hibernal Den’ is a vacation so it will somehow fit into my totally non-existent lore. That the name “seems” to mean a certain thing is 100% NOT the problem I have with the Den.
The problem I have with the Den is that, as they are currently describing it, it is USELESS to me. Absolutely, utterly, completely useless.
I breed ALL my dragons. I have multiple coli teams and would like to eventually level up ALL my favorites. I breed EVERY dragon that has a mate, including g1s, am looking for mates for the rest, and actually only have one, single, solitary fan dragon that I *probably* wont breed, but that’s not for sure, and he’s on the list of those I want to train for coli. I don’t have any useless “reps”, or dragons that I don’t interact with regularly. And a large number still don’t have permanent & awakened familiars.
So basically, I have NO dragons that I actually WANT to send on “vacation”, for any length of time, but even more important, there is the matter of my lair ORDER. My lair is carefully arranged in a certain order, just the way I want it to be. Even if I DID have a few dragons I was OK with putting on cold storage, I wouldn’t, because I am NOT willing to destroy the carefully arranged aesthetic order of my lair. Remember, I have NO lore whatsoever, and I can’t come up with storified a “workaround” for changing my lair order, because I do it simply because I think it’s lovely that way. And I refuse to wreck it because they are too stubborn to give us more lairspace.
It MIGHT have been useful to me if I could just cycle dragons in & out as necessary, because then I could at least hatch nests & participate in Dom again, but the ridiculous 30 return cool down makes that really unlikely to be more than minimally useful. And it STILL doesn’t replace more regular lairspace because I will never have more slots for new dragons without being FORCED into using the Den, a feature I DONT WANT TO USE.
So basically, no matter WHAT you call it - the Hibernal Den, the Gallery, the Day Spa, Dragon Vacation, The Room of Cold Death, whatever- it’s not going to be useful for me, or the many other people who posted in the old 70+ page thread over several months, or are posting here, and who have been *begging* admins for [i]more regular lairspace PLEASE[/i] for a really long time.
The den is a FINE idea for some, and for those people- HURRAH! It’s not going to help a LOT of people, the people who are the serious users, who spend a lot of time and/or IRL money supporting the site. And as I said before, that’s just bad business.
hat17 wrote on 2018-10-27 21:17:38:
Lara8 wrote on 2018-10-27 21:07:18:
@
hat17 wrote on 2018-10-27 13:21:33:
I'm just so happy about getting more spaces to put my overflood dragons then I walked into this thread.
No, I get where you're coming from. I'm 100% always in favor of more 'real' space, but I also think it's up to individual players whether, in their lore, the hibernal den is a portrait gallery or just a separate location where their dragons can live. Just like we're allowed to decide for ourselves what it means to exalt a dragon or sell it on the Auction House in terms of our clan's story.
True, but what I feel is, since this hibernal den is a feature that not yet live, it means we, as players, can decide what you want it to mean from scratch. There's no need to restrict it as 'hibernation' or 'portrait gallery' right now when the thing isn't real yet. Lore is flexible, and I'm sure for everyone's talent it won't be difficult to come up with a few explanations that will fit and satisfy each lore. I just feel it's the 'hibernation' and the mention of 'display gallery' that had put most people off. Maybe it's not, but lore isn't a very strong argument point for this current discussion, imo.
@
hat17
I don’t lore, it’s something I have ZERO interest in. I don’t do bios, unless it already came with a dragon. I don’t roleplay, my dragons are not OCs or characters of any kind, they are nothing but pretty (and sometimes expensive) pixels to me. I don’t have to “pretend” that the ‘Hibernal Den’ is a vacation so it will somehow fit into my totally non-existent lore. That the name “seems” to mean a certain thing is 100% NOT the problem I have with the Den.
The problem I have with the Den is that, as they are currently describing it, it is USELESS to me. Absolutely, utterly, completely useless.
I breed ALL my dragons. I have multiple coli teams and would like to eventually level up ALL my favorites. I breed EVERY dragon that has a mate, including g1s, am looking for mates for the rest, and actually only have one, single, solitary fan dragon that I *probably* wont breed, but that’s not for sure, and he’s on the list of those I want to train for coli. I don’t have any useless “reps”, or dragons that I don’t interact with regularly. And a large number still don’t have permanent & awakened familiars.
So basically, I have NO dragons that I actually WANT to send on “vacation”, for any length of time, but even more important, there is the matter of my lair ORDER. My lair is carefully arranged in a certain order, just the way I want it to be. Even if I DID have a few dragons I was OK with putting on cold storage, I wouldn’t, because I am NOT willing to destroy the carefully arranged aesthetic order of my lair. Remember, I have NO lore whatsoever, and I can’t come up with storified a “workaround” for changing my lair order, because I do it simply because I think it’s lovely that way. And I refuse to wreck it because they are too stubborn to give us more lairspace.
It MIGHT have been useful to me if I could just cycle dragons in & out as necessary, because then I could at least hatch nests & participate in Dom again, but the ridiculous 30 return cool down makes that really unlikely to be more than minimally useful. And it STILL doesn’t replace more regular lairspace because I will never have more slots for new dragons without being FORCED into using the Den, a feature I DONT WANT TO USE.
So basically, no matter WHAT you call it - the Hibernal Den, the Gallery, the Day Spa, Dragon Vacation, The Room of Cold Death, whatever- it’s not going to be useful for me, or the many other people who posted in the old 70+ page thread over several months, or are posting here, and who have been *begging* admins for
more regular lairspace PLEASE for a really long time.
The den is a FINE idea for some, and for those people- HURRAH! It’s not going to help a LOT of people, the people who are the serious users, who spend a lot of time and/or IRL money supporting the site. And as I said before, that’s just bad business.
I will argue about the food problem - it's not a problem for me in the sense that I can sustain myself with buying food from time to time. But that also means I'm investing RL money from time to time so I can feed. Also I personally know a few players who maxed out on lair no longer feed their dragons because they just gave up on keeping up with the demand. So when you said they don't have food problem all I can say is they just no longer bothered. Of course that's probably not directly relevant with the lair spaces discussion, but I know myself welcomes the fact that I don't need to feed the whole lair anymore.
The thing is, I never oppose having more lair space. I'd love to have more, and even the dev team had never said with hibernal den they will no longer add more spaces to regular lair. Or maybe that's what they think is the best balance between player needs and server needs. Asking for more lair space is fine, I fully support, but there's no need to push hibernal den aside and say 'no I don't want that!' and shut out the chance of even trying to make it work.
Also, assuming those who posted (here or old thread) are the majority with maxed lair and wanting more space is a very bold assumption. Of all the friends I have and are maxed or near maxed, only I had posted in suggestion and in both threads. I won't say we're the majority, but assuming most people thinks the same way as you and this only helps a small group of people is very selfish.
I will argue about the food problem - it's not a problem for me in the sense that I can sustain myself with buying food from time to time. But that also means I'm investing RL money from time to time so I can feed. Also I personally know a few players who maxed out on lair no longer feed their dragons because they just gave up on keeping up with the demand. So when you said they don't have food problem all I can say is they just no longer bothered. Of course that's probably not directly relevant with the lair spaces discussion, but I know myself welcomes the fact that I don't need to feed the whole lair anymore.
The thing is, I never oppose having more lair space. I'd love to have more, and even the dev team had never said with hibernal den they will no longer add more spaces to regular lair. Or maybe that's what they think is the best balance between player needs and server needs. Asking for more lair space is fine, I fully support, but there's no need to push hibernal den aside and say 'no I don't want that!' and shut out the chance of even trying to make it work.
Also, assuming those who posted (here or old thread) are the majority with maxed lair and wanting more space is a very bold assumption. Of all the friends I have and are maxed or near maxed, only I had posted in suggestion and in both threads. I won't say we're the majority, but assuming most people thinks the same way as you and this only helps a small group of people is very selfish.
@
KairinRose
That's valid argument. But I'm reading many that are putting down on a feature just because they can't or won't use it, and assume very little people will truly benefit. It's kind of like when they release new genes people complain about the update is useless to them, and not thinking about those who will use it.
I'll say again, having one doesn't mean they are definitely shutting out the other. I just don't think by bashing this new feature is the way to go for getting things across.
@
KairinRose
That's valid argument. But I'm reading many that are putting down on a feature just because they can't or won't use it, and assume very little people will truly benefit. It's kind of like when they release new genes people complain about the update is useless to them, and not thinking about those who will use it.
I'll say again, having one doesn't mean they are definitely shutting out the other. I just don't think by bashing this new feature is the way to go for getting things across.
[quote name="hat17" date="2018-10-27 23:24:29" ]
I will argue about the food problem - it's not a problem for me in the sense that I can sustain myself with buying food from time to time. But that also means I'm investing RL money from time to time so I can feed. Also I personally know a few players who maxed out on lair no longer feed their dragons because they just gave up on keeping up with the demand. So when you said they don't have food problem all I can say is they just no longer bothered. Of course that's probably not directly relevant with the lair spaces discussion, but I know myself welcomes the fact that I don't need to feed the whole lair anymore.
The thing is, I never oppose having more lair space. I'd love to have more, and even the dev team had never said with hibernal den they will no longer add more spaces to regular lair. Or maybe that's what they think is the best balance between player needs and server needs. Asking for more lair space is fine, I fully support, but there's no need to push hibernal den aside and say 'no I don't want that!' and shut out the chance of even trying to make it work.
Also, assuming those who posted (here or old thread) are the majority with maxed lair and wanting more space is a very bold assumption. Of all the friends I have and are maxed or near maxed, only I had posted in suggestion and in both threads. I won't say we're the majority, but assuming most people thinks the same way as you and this only helps a small group of people is very selfish.
[/quote]
Okay, fair enough. But still, they shouldn't use food as a way to avoid adding more lair expansions. Not when Gathering needs a huge overhaul. Gathering doesn't give nearly as much as it should, since your level doesn't matter too much for the most part. Even me, with almost all things maxed at level 40, can still get multiple turns of 1-2 2 point food items in a session, or a familiar and no food. That needs to be remedied, and I'm sure people would have a lot less problems with food if the levels in Gathering meant anything other than adding more things to the pool and not giving you a better chance to get more food as a whole when leveling. It should give you more as a whole when you level and yet, nope. I'm hoping that'll be completely redone once it's time to switch that part of the site over.
[i]That's[/i] why I feel off about the reason of food being a reason for not adding lair expansions. Because that's something that [i]can[/i] be fixed (also this is my first time hearing of anyone up there having food problems. I have literally not seen anyone mention that until now).
Also I never said "only a few people will use it", I said a [i]lot fewer than the staff expect to use[/i] it will use it. It seems like they're trying to use it as a solution to lair space, but it's not one, not a solution, not when there's lots of people who use all their dragons or nearly all, due to being a lore lair, a breeding lair, a coli lair, and so on. Not to mention the people who have specific ordering for one reason or another, that would be heavily affected if they used the hibernal den. As I said, I'd heavily use it if there was a way to preserve my order and not shove the dragons into a separate tab, ruining my order (and I can't just make multiple tabs and try to make an order, since the ones I'd put in are intermixed with dragons I hope to breed one day and dragons who are leveled or due to be leveled).
hat17 wrote on 2018-10-27 23:24:29:
I will argue about the food problem - it's not a problem for me in the sense that I can sustain myself with buying food from time to time. But that also means I'm investing RL money from time to time so I can feed. Also I personally know a few players who maxed out on lair no longer feed their dragons because they just gave up on keeping up with the demand. So when you said they don't have food problem all I can say is they just no longer bothered. Of course that's probably not directly relevant with the lair spaces discussion, but I know myself welcomes the fact that I don't need to feed the whole lair anymore.
The thing is, I never oppose having more lair space. I'd love to have more, and even the dev team had never said with hibernal den they will no longer add more spaces to regular lair. Or maybe that's what they think is the best balance between player needs and server needs. Asking for more lair space is fine, I fully support, but there's no need to push hibernal den aside and say 'no I don't want that!' and shut out the chance of even trying to make it work.
Also, assuming those who posted (here or old thread) are the majority with maxed lair and wanting more space is a very bold assumption. Of all the friends I have and are maxed or near maxed, only I had posted in suggestion and in both threads. I won't say we're the majority, but assuming most people thinks the same way as you and this only helps a small group of people is very selfish.
Okay, fair enough. But still, they shouldn't use food as a way to avoid adding more lair expansions. Not when Gathering needs a huge overhaul. Gathering doesn't give nearly as much as it should, since your level doesn't matter too much for the most part. Even me, with almost all things maxed at level 40, can still get multiple turns of 1-2 2 point food items in a session, or a familiar and no food. That needs to be remedied, and I'm sure people would have a lot less problems with food if the levels in Gathering meant anything other than adding more things to the pool and not giving you a better chance to get more food as a whole when leveling. It should give you more as a whole when you level and yet, nope. I'm hoping that'll be completely redone once it's time to switch that part of the site over.
That's why I feel off about the reason of food being a reason for not adding lair expansions. Because that's something that
can be fixed (also this is my first time hearing of anyone up there having food problems. I have literally not seen anyone mention that until now).
Also I never said "only a few people will use it", I said a
lot fewer than the staff expect to use it will use it. It seems like they're trying to use it as a solution to lair space, but it's not one, not a solution, not when there's lots of people who use all their dragons or nearly all, due to being a lore lair, a breeding lair, a coli lair, and so on. Not to mention the people who have specific ordering for one reason or another, that would be heavily affected if they used the hibernal den. As I said, I'd heavily use it if there was a way to preserve my order and not shove the dragons into a separate tab, ruining my order (and I can't just make multiple tabs and try to make an order, since the ones I'd put in are intermixed with dragons I hope to breed one day and dragons who are leveled or due to be leveled).
It is impossible to come up with a new feature that meets EVERYBODY's needs exactly the way they want. And excuse me for mentioning that, the way everything in the world works is that, when people disagree with something, they tend to make their voices heard, and when people agree, they don't often talk about it.
I personally know many players on and off the site, while I wouldn't say they'd make representatives of everybody playing, it definitely shows a trend that a vast majority of them find this new feature much beneficial to their gameplay. Not EVERYBODY likes it, but the proportion of people agreeing with it is definitely much higher than what people opposing this feature are giving credit of.
An expansion to regular lair would certainly be awesome, I've also commented multiple times regarding that, but that does not necessarily conflict with this new feature as it adds new possibilities and more fun to gameplay. It does not take anything away from the current players and one may choose to not utilize that at all. But to ask this developing feature to be taken away from other players too just because one wouldn't use it HIMSELF would not be logical. So instead of bashing the new features, why not instead keep bugging the developers and let them know that regular lair spaces is still much wanted even after hibernal den is in place? xD
P.S.: Though that does make me wonder, if we get regular lair cap increase + an optional "lock" feature, that pretty covers the functions of hibernal den without messing up some people's lair orders..... ummmm
It is impossible to come up with a new feature that meets EVERYBODY's needs exactly the way they want. And excuse me for mentioning that, the way everything in the world works is that, when people disagree with something, they tend to make their voices heard, and when people agree, they don't often talk about it.
I personally know many players on and off the site, while I wouldn't say they'd make representatives of everybody playing, it definitely shows a trend that a vast majority of them find this new feature much beneficial to their gameplay. Not EVERYBODY likes it, but the proportion of people agreeing with it is definitely much higher than what people opposing this feature are giving credit of.
An expansion to regular lair would certainly be awesome, I've also commented multiple times regarding that, but that does not necessarily conflict with this new feature as it adds new possibilities and more fun to gameplay. It does not take anything away from the current players and one may choose to not utilize that at all. But to ask this developing feature to be taken away from other players too just because one wouldn't use it HIMSELF would not be logical. So instead of bashing the new features, why not instead keep bugging the developers and let them know that regular lair spaces is still much wanted even after hibernal den is in place? xD
P.S.: Though that does make me wonder, if we get regular lair cap increase + an optional "lock" feature, that pretty covers the functions of hibernal den without messing up some people's lair orders..... ummmm
@
Meowfred
We're not "bashing" the new features or asking them to be taken away, nor are we "bashing" on anyone who will find use in them. We're outlining why the feature in question won't work for us personally to solve the problem that the den seems to have been intended as the final ultimate fix for, because every single time we bring up that we're in need of more normal lair slots somebody always says "but what about the hibernal den" and we have to keep explaining it. No one here was
ever asking for it to be removed or cancelled. What we're asking for is to be given a regular lair cap raise
with it. I'm willing to bet that if you personally asked any one random person on this thread, they'd tell you they're not at all opposed to the den being a thing, are totally fine with having it, might even be actively looking forward to it for one reason or another, they just don't want it to be a permanent replacement for standard lairspace that we literally can't keep playing the game without.
And the reason people on here are getting so grumpy is because it's been more than two years since the last regular lair cap raise and what precious little communication we've had on the subject since then has consisted of 1-"We're making a freezer thing. Your dragons will be completely inert and it won't be done for another year at minimum anyway." 2-a small assortment of vague comments heavily implying that the dev team is generally opposed to the idea of raising the cap for unknown reasons (something about "we wonder if it's really the best way to do it"), 3-some long-debunked excuses about food (which most people at the cap don't suffer from and it could be easily fixed by scaling the amount of food points you get with gathering level anyway) and another excuse about coli loadouts which could be fixed by arranging eligible dragons into pages rather than loading all at once, and 4-every single old thread and comment on the subject silently vanishing when someone on the announcement thread pointed out that there was a thread with 70 pages worth of posts. I'd be amazed if people didn't start getting cranky after being brushed off and made to feel like they're not wanted anymore for so long, especially when we keep getting called entitled babies and told to just man up and toss out our permas cause if we have that many then we're not playing the 'right' way every single time we bring it up.
The staff said in the beginning that they didn't want to force any specific "right" playstyle, but that's exactly what's happening now, because if you don't play the game one of a few specific ways then you'll only be able to actually do anything on FR for a certain amount of time before you'll end up locked out of all but the forums and flash games. And a game that punishes you for loving it isn't a very well-designed game.
Edit: Not to mention that there really isn't any significant reason i can think of to oppose getting more regular space. Unlike just getting the den and nothing else everyone would be able to benefit from it regardless of playstyle, maxed-out people would be satisfied for awhile, the lair tabs system would now have an even number of slots, nobody loses and the people feeling left out by the implied final nature of the den wouldn't be feeling left out anymore. And if the servers can handle the strain of open reg AND the den, i'd imagine they can handle one more page of normal lair slots.
@
Meowfred
We're not "bashing" the new features or asking them to be taken away, nor are we "bashing" on anyone who will find use in them. We're outlining why the feature in question won't work for us personally to solve the problem that the den seems to have been intended as the final ultimate fix for, because every single time we bring up that we're in need of more normal lair slots somebody always says "but what about the hibernal den" and we have to keep explaining it. No one here was
ever asking for it to be removed or cancelled. What we're asking for is to be given a regular lair cap raise
with it. I'm willing to bet that if you personally asked any one random person on this thread, they'd tell you they're not at all opposed to the den being a thing, are totally fine with having it, might even be actively looking forward to it for one reason or another, they just don't want it to be a permanent replacement for standard lairspace that we literally can't keep playing the game without.
And the reason people on here are getting so grumpy is because it's been more than two years since the last regular lair cap raise and what precious little communication we've had on the subject since then has consisted of 1-"We're making a freezer thing. Your dragons will be completely inert and it won't be done for another year at minimum anyway." 2-a small assortment of vague comments heavily implying that the dev team is generally opposed to the idea of raising the cap for unknown reasons (something about "we wonder if it's really the best way to do it"), 3-some long-debunked excuses about food (which most people at the cap don't suffer from and it could be easily fixed by scaling the amount of food points you get with gathering level anyway) and another excuse about coli loadouts which could be fixed by arranging eligible dragons into pages rather than loading all at once, and 4-every single old thread and comment on the subject silently vanishing when someone on the announcement thread pointed out that there was a thread with 70 pages worth of posts. I'd be amazed if people didn't start getting cranky after being brushed off and made to feel like they're not wanted anymore for so long, especially when we keep getting called entitled babies and told to just man up and toss out our permas cause if we have that many then we're not playing the 'right' way every single time we bring it up.
The staff said in the beginning that they didn't want to force any specific "right" playstyle, but that's exactly what's happening now, because if you don't play the game one of a few specific ways then you'll only be able to actually do anything on FR for a certain amount of time before you'll end up locked out of all but the forums and flash games. And a game that punishes you for loving it isn't a very well-designed game.
Edit: Not to mention that there really isn't any significant reason i can think of to oppose getting more regular space. Unlike just getting the den and nothing else everyone would be able to benefit from it regardless of playstyle, maxed-out people would be satisfied for awhile, the lair tabs system would now have an even number of slots, nobody loses and the people feeling left out by the implied final nature of the den wouldn't be feeling left out anymore. And if the servers can handle the strain of open reg AND the den, i'd imagine they can handle one more page of normal lair slots.
I don't understand how this devolved into bashing the Den... Tbh I'm super into the idea of the Den because it might be useful to me, but I still want more lair space in general, for several reasons (for example: I'm a bit iffy on the fact we don't know if we'll be able to apply breed/gene change scrolls in the Den; and in general, it's basically useless for people who want to breed dragons or level them all up).
Lair space expansion and the Hibernal Den don't have, and shouldn't, be in conflict with each other.
Also, I agree with @
KairinRose on the subject of losing trust in staff, and that a lair cap like that on a dragon collecting site is ridiculous. Sorry I can't quote exactly, on mobile rn.
I don't understand how this devolved into bashing the Den... Tbh I'm super into the idea of the Den because it might be useful to me, but I still want more lair space in general, for several reasons (for example: I'm a bit iffy on the fact we don't know if we'll be able to apply breed/gene change scrolls in the Den; and in general, it's basically useless for people who want to breed dragons or level them all up).
Lair space expansion and the Hibernal Den don't have, and shouldn't, be in conflict with each other.
Also, I agree with @
KairinRose on the subject of losing trust in staff, and that a lair cap like that on a dragon collecting site is ridiculous. Sorry I can't quote exactly, on mobile rn.