Suggestions

@Denryu

Thank you for such a detailed response; I'll try to respond to it with an equal amount of dedication.

I feel you so, so much on this. I have things I ought to be doing, and I've put them reluctantly aside just so I can get a stack of these before the update ends - and even then, that's only enough to perhaps get one dragon with the exact eyes I want, if I'm lucky. I have never seen an Imp scroll up for sale, and I fear that the eyes, scary as it seems, will become worse. It's not the new imp scroll - it's the new Imp Scroll Plus.

And who's going to want it when it might do exactly nothing to a dragon?

I absolutely agree on the extension. As far as I know, all events up until this point have been week-long or fortnight-long deals, giving people the time to gather what they need. The higher drop rate simply isn't enough to compensate for people who don't have the days free to work on getting what they want. I can already see the people who will come back to this only to be shocked and horrified at the prices, not to mention some of the eyes themselves.

I see now what you mean about working towards something. I've actually enjoyed hunting the vials myself - it's a nice little boost in determination while in the Coli, much like festival currency is during festivals. I've never really considered the keep option a good one, personally, since that will add onto the contradictory statements made by staff, which is never good when dealing with a group of people who we have to trust to make the right decisions. However, if they hadn't decided to retire them off the bat - instead just mentioned the possibility - I'm sure I would be right there with you on the subject.

My solutions tend to be a 'one size fits all' deal, which never completely reflects everyone. But I can try by best, and I thank you for the opportunity to understand your point of view.

@Catradora

Hey, no problem. I'm just glad there's people willing to discuss different options in a civilized manner!

I'm very dedicated to this issue right now because I simply do not like staff trying to limit dragon customisation. I want to customise my dragons in every way available, period. I have extensive breeding projects, I hatch and buy G1's, I buy gene scrolls be they treasure or gems, I have tons and tons of apparel and I buy custom accents and skins. For me, this became a new way to customise my dragons the moment they added the scatter vial. And it needs to stay, because it's a consumable item that can, and likely will, run out.

I'm 100% ok with there being retired items, but they really need to be non-consumable or have a 100% chance of doing what it says on the tin. I enjoy saving up for things like the boneyard tatters or cloudy wings. Because they do not disappear after applied on a dragon, there will always be a supply of them however small, and if I buy them I will get boneyard tatters or cloudy wings instead of a random chance of maybe getting the correct apparel item.
Of course this brings us to Imperial scrolls, but they were Kickstarter rewards and they do what they say on the tin. It's not up to RNG to decide if you get an imp or not.

I am also ok with there being things in this game I cannot control. If I hatch a Nocturne egg, there's no telling what element eyes it's going to have. BUT I can have influence over it by hatching, for example, only Lightning eggs. Or if I want to breed a dragon with plague eyes, I will ask around if anyone has a free plague nest they can borrow. I am all about this change going forward! It will be so exciting to hatch eggs of any kind now. I can't wait for my ice/abyss/abyss imps to pop out a primal. I'm going to hatch so many eggs on my birthday to get some G1's with Lightning primal.

It's true, it's going to cause a lot of outcry if staff suddenly goes back on their word. However, I think they simply misjudged how many people would want special eyes on their old dragons, instead of breeding new ones. Why can't I have a fair chance of giving the new eyes to all my special dragons that I cannot just breed over again? It's not like it affects breeding, since it will be randomized anyway. It's simply a cosmetic change. Why can't I get them eyes that would best fit them? I haven't even dared to scry most of my dragons with the new eyes with how impossible it is to get them.

I want a legit chance of getting the special eyes for my old dragons. Because I have spent four years making my lair look the way I want, and I want to keep customising my dragons in every way possible down to the most miniscule of details going forward. I have never shied away from working hard on this site to achieve a certain look for my dragons. But I want to be able to work hard for a fair chance, instead of having to buy overpriced vials for a ridiculous chance of getting a certain look for my dragons.

[font=baskerville old face][size=4]Okay, having had some time to mull it over, do some coliseum grinding, and sleep on it, here's my take on things. This is, of course, entirely personal, and I'm only focusing on what I specifically dislike or like. ----- [font=baskerville old face][size=4]I'll start off with saying that I do really like this update, the core idea, of having randomised eyes that fall into a pool of relatively similar variants, with a small chance of getting something [i]really[/i] special, such as the primal. It makes breeding more fun for me, personally. I do [i]not[/i] like that after the scatter vial retires, there will be no way to change unwanted eyes. Even if the default colours hadn't changed, I would still be wanting a cheap marketplace item that would allow revert to common eyes. I also do not like that they released multi-gaze in the state it is in right now. From an artist and a customer's point of view, it is currently of very shoddy quality, with obvious artifacting, copy-pasting, and no differences between breeds that have different eye types. I would rather they have delayed the release of multi-gaze until it was actually a good item and then either added it to the random pool, or released it on the gem marketplace. (I have similar feelings about the Light primal, but those are more subjective to personal taste and what I feel the Light Flight personality is, so no discussion on that.) On the subject of body horror: I feel like making multi-gaze a gem marketplace item would have prevented that, and also given more time to polish it up, and that that combined with a revert to common vial/scroll would have prevented this discussion in the first place. I'm not sure how to solve this now that it's been implemented entirely differently. I realise some people might want more than a removal item in order to avoid it, but as I'm not one of those I feel like I can say little else on the matter. Other people have said what I feel about the RNG aspect of the scatter vials. All I'm going to add is that I would also like to see an extension on this event or something to similar effect, and that my current situation with them is that after 6 hours grinding, I only have 2, and I don't have millions of treasure or thousands of gems to buy vials on the auction house. And I have relatively few dragons, compared to some. This part of the event is especially frustrating, rather than fun. If they truly wanted to give all old dragons a chance at the new eyes, giving all players a stack the size of their occupied lair would have been fairer. ----- [font=baskerville old face][size=4]Up until now, all the issues I have listed I am relatively neutral about and could have ignored, as I usually do with updates. ----- [font=baskerville old face][size=4][b]My [i]biggest[/i] problem with the update[/b] is the changing of all dragon eyes while explicitly stating (emphasis mine): [quote]The Vial of Scattersight operates in a similar way to the Tri-Color Scatterscroll (but for eye types instead), in that will apply a random natural eye type to the dragon it's used on (excluding the default [b]“common” eyes that have been available since the site launched.[/b])".[/quote] [font=baskerville old face][size=4][i]Even if this was a mistake and they never meant to update the eyes in this manner, people have wasted scatter vials in order to get another eye colour similar to what they had before, because this is an extremely short, limited time event, and it is panic-inducing.[/i] The only reason I have not done this myself is because after grinding for 6 hours, I've only received 2 vials, and I would like to save them until I have more information about how this all will work going forward. I do not appreciate having changes applied to all my dragons without acknowledgement, let alone complete denial of the fact and assurance of the opposite. I'm still hoping that this was a mistake rather than purposefully done, but this has been known for two days now, and there's still no official statement about anything. ...I think that is all my thoughts on the matter.

@Denryu

I agree. Dragon customization is absolutely a selling point of this site, and the lack of customization for the eyes is... unsettling, to say the least.

I know a lot of people are feeling that the changes are 'too minor on most dragons', and thus feel people are complaining over a 'relatively minor change'. I... don't really see how it's minor, though I'm trying to. This is one of the first major changes we've had in essentially my entire time on this site; the entire mechanics of the dragons themselves have been changed, and their appearances altered. It means so much more than what I believe a lot of users realize, and I just wish I had the words to express that.

I don't feel the FR team should go back on their word, still. Mostly because they're already very quiet about changes they make, especially when they get backlash; I'd at least appreciate some indication of their actions and/or choices going forward, as I believe that communication to be a vital element of the trust put into the staff team. Regardless, I do appreciate the work they do, and will likely accept whatever they decide to do.

I'm a bit worried about this update, though. While the Slight Eyewing is super refined, a lot of the actual eye stuff isn't. There's been lots of comments on my polls describing issues with multi-gaze's graphical errors, and the RNG for the item drop and the item itself is extremely unusual at best. From what I can tell, they treated the scattersight as a biased scatterscroll - which while similar isn't the same. Mostly because the pool of results isn't big enough for it work.

Here's to hoping for some kind of change, sooner or later.

I forgot something while taking the poll:
I like the idea of having those scattersight vials available in Joxar's spare crates, even if the FR anniversary is not a festival lore wise.

I made a compilation of all sorts of issues this update has caused so here it is. If you find something you'd like to add to your masterpost, feel free.

So far the only positive elements about this update were:

1. The random eye type element in common hatching and G1 hatching is an incredibly inventive and fun way to add this new feature. There are originally no problems with the core idea however future decisions caused problems.
2. The random nature of eye types is canonically fitting since the elemental energy found on the planet is chaotic and unpredictable, making hatching interesting.
3. There is now a bigger diversity in eyes and the aesthetic element, something players have wanted for a long time.

However, there are more cons with the update than there are pros:

1. There seems to be no way to revert the eyes to common after you've applied the scatter vial which creates the need for a common eye type vial and people have been requesting the same ever since the update had gone live.
2. Eye types and this entire feature are incredibly major, eyes are an important part of every dragon and having the only way of changing something so major be retired in a span of three days is completely insane. People have been requesting that the Scattersigh Vials do not get retired since hour one after the update had gone live, yet there was no response from the developers except one post in which it was practically confirmed that they are determined to forever retire the Scattersight Vials. The solution is not to retire the vial. Another bonus solution was to have the Scattersight Vials drop in the Coliseum and as gathering items during elemental festivals since the elemental energy is canonically strongest then.
3. Already existing dragons, old dragons, unique IDs, unique date hatches, progens and one of a kind dragons are at a huge loss because there's no good, solid way for them to get what they should be able to get. the only way to get the rarest eye types is to use the Scattersight Vials yet it's all a gamble, the chances are so low that you might have to use up to 200 vials just on one dragon. Then the developers say the vials will get retired forever and the only chance to get those completely unfair vials is in a span of three days, it is important to keep in mind that not all people have the same opportunity to participate in this event. This is most hurtful to those players who have been around for the longest and it can be easily addressed as an enormous issue, the proper way to fix this is to not let the vials retire.
4. The eyes act like a quaternary gene yet they're completely random and they cannot be changed unless a Scattersight Vial is used. The fact that the vial is getting retired forever and the fact that eye types are a permanent thing means the chance to change the eyes will soon become completely impossible or extremely costly. There are several solutions for this: a) implement the common eye type vial b) leave the Scattersight Vial as a permanent addition to the game c) create various eye vials for each eye type and have each of them a unique way of obtaining
5. The Common, Uncommon and Unusual eyes' differences are barely noticeable on certain dragon breeds and of certain elements making them underwhelming. This issue could easily be changed by adding more obvious hue changes, changing brightness and vibrancy factors, and adding more accentual colours to Rare eye types other than Lightning and Plague. They deserve that.
6. The chances of getting the rarest eye types (Primal and Multi-Gaze) are so low that it's simply ridiculous and completely unfair since gambling was never something players wanted. RNG can be the perfect solution for many problems or a feature which creates an interesting challenge, however in this case it is a horribly bad example, especially if it's time-limited. If the Scattersight Vials end up not being retired, the chances should be changed to equal percentage, and if the Scattersight Vials end up being retired forever then the chances must be changed to equal percentage.
7. Players have noticed that with those ungodly odds of getting a rare eye type, getting the same eye type several times in a row is even more punishing and it completely takes the fun away. People don't want to have repeating eye types and it is completely understandable regarding the entire situation despite the fact that that's exactly how scatters work. The chances of getting the same eye type consecutively should be changed to 0, and getting the same eye type in future scatters should be lowered. The more one eye type is repeated, the lesser the chance of getting it again. Of course, this could only work account-and-dragon wise, perhaps it could have a 3-month cooldown? because once a dragon is sold or given away to another lair, the chances should be reverted back to normal so each player has equal chances. It would require a lot of coding but with the situation the players find themselves in, this is the least admins could do for them. The chances of getting Primal or Multi-gaze are both below 1% which is incredibly unfair and agitating, the chances should be changed.
8. Players have reported their discomfort with several eye types triggering their phobias and that should be taken care of one way or another, perhaps by adding filters so that other players who are fond of the design aren't affected.
9. People who own hatcheries are also enraged but not because the eyes are randomised, but because the only way to remove the eye types is getting retired forever, leaving them with basically no chance of changing the eye type in the future. This could easily be fixed by not retiring the Scattersight Vial, adding various eye type vials or adding a common eye type vial. It is incredibly unfair towards people who have spent years on their breeding projects or their hatcheries, ruined by one element which is the most important part of this website's experience - the aesthetic element.
10. A sudden change in common eye types' colours which was completely surprising, not hinted or debated caused a ton of problems for many players, especially the oldest ones. This was a major sudden change no one asked for and it turned out to be very hurtful. Some sort of compromise needs to be found since there are people who like the new look, and there are people whose old aesthetic got completely ruined.
11. There has been an uprising in the community, players are sad, agitated, stressed and thinking about leaving. some of them are considering not purchasing any more Gems or supporting the site which is a completely expected reaction to this. Many players have either been disappointed or severely hurt by these changes, yet the developers have been quiet this whole time. it is unnerving and bothersome, making many people anxious and just heating things up in the community more and more with each passing hour. There have been reports, there have been insults and thread locks, all of that caused by a rash decision, unwanted changes, bad implementation and silence.
12. Perhaps the developers are trying to answer players' pleas about forever retiring certain items and they seem to be completely failing at that solution since it is incredibly unfair for newer and players with less time on their hands to retire any item, especially an item this important. Item retiring should be removed completely including the Y1 and Y2 items by adding extremely rare drops to Joxar's Spare Inventory, and retiring the Scattersight Vial, an item absolutely crucial item for aesthetic purposes, should not even be considered.

This new feature is interesting, fun and unique for casual players, but it is the most hurtful for hardcore, dedicated players who spent years on getting the dragons they want and who spent real-life money on this website. A fantastic idea ruined by poorly thought-out implementation.

[quote name="Catradora" date="2018-06-09 23:00:58" ]I have never seen an Imp scroll up for sale, and I fear that the eyes, scary as it seems, will become worse. It's not the new imp scroll - it's the new Imp Scroll Plus. And who's going to want it when it might do exactly nothing to a dragon?[/quote] Something can't become an Imp Scroll Plus if people aren't going to want it because it does "nothing". If they don't want it, it doesn't go anywhere and doesn't become rare as heck.

Thank you for the hard work of putting all of this together. There're so many threads for the same issues already, it's hard to look through them all.

First I'd like to say that I'm very excited about the update. I love the idea of more eye-types and the other things included during this anniversary is sadly overlooked due to it's implementation issues.

Having worked in art-related projects I know from experience that brainstorming and coming up with good ideas for a special event is hard and often doesn't come early enough to allow for stress free working on the chosen project in the end. It's entirely possible that the eye types were an idea that had to be done under time pressure and that would explain a lot of the art issues many people pointed out already.
I'm of the opinion the staff of FR generally does an awesome job of making the site's features better and to correct art-related issues with genes etc. So I'm pretty sure the pointed out art flaws will be worked on rather fast.

That said, eyes are a very important part of a dragon's face and overall look (like they are for every other species). Because of this there should be a more controlled way of getting a certain type.

Being a huge horror and body-horror fan, I love the multi-gaze a lot. Embarrassingly for me it didn't occur to me that others were triggered and creeped-out by them until I read the post about it. But now that I'm aware, I'm all for an option to hide this type of eyes for anyone who needs this.

So my suggestions are the following:

- separate options to hide Multi-Gaze; Facet or Primal eyes in the Account settings.
A dragon with the triggering eyes could either be shown with the default eyes or have it's picture completely replaced by a stop/no entry sign. Since I have no experience with coding, I've no idea which is easier to implement, but the stop-sign would also prevent people from accidentally buying dragons for their projects or as permas that have undesired eye-types, so this option might be better in any regard.

- make all eye types available in the Market Place.
I don't mind the Scattersight vials being retired at all. But I very much want to be able to change the eyes of dragons like we can change their genes, no matter where these vials or scrolls would be offered.
A neat option would be to make Common; Uncommon; Unusual and Rare Treasure MP items, the Faceted; Multi-Gaze and Primal Gem-items like the Glowing eyes already are. Although brewable Multi-Gaze would also be fantastic since it fits so nicely with the theme.

Having eye types being passed down to offspring would be nice, but wouldn't be necessary if they can be changed with items. The randomness that is supposed to be could then be kept without upsetting people.
I personally also liked the former default eyes better. Many dragons now look as if they stare unfriendly at something with the Common type. And the color change of many flights to a less obvious color (like the Plague red to brown-ish) is not my thing.

I don't have too much to say that hasn't already been said although the complete silence does worry me.

Thank you for making this thread and for everyone voicing their concerns.

I love this thread so much, thank you for making it I support it so much, especially introducing "Add an account option which allows people to toggle the viewing of 'body horror' eye types." Also a big suggestion about the eyes I support is not by me but this bit of @FaliingStar275 's post: [quote name="FallingStar275" date="2018-06-10 10:46:00" ] [b]I, personally, don't quite understand why the rarer eyes that more drastically alter their actual appearance on a dragon aren't able to be obtained in another way. Honestly, in my mind, I would've thought that Multi-Gaze would've been a Baldwin Brewable item, that Facet eyes would be maybe a Swipp trade or available through insect gathering, and that Primal could be a coli drop that increases slightly in drop rate during festivals, when elemental magic is actually, canonically, at a higher point. This makes sense in my mind and would be a very reasonable solution to these people that WANT these eyes but can't get them, because they are rolling uncommon after uncommon after uncommon. The people that want these eyes REALLY want these eyes. Me and many other users, on the other hand, do NOT want to roll a multi-eyed horror. It's why I haven't used any of my vials, personally.[/b] [/quote]