Suggestions
Make Flight Rising better by sharing your ideas!
TOPIC | More REGULAR Lairspace
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From the Q & A [quote]While the act of increasing the cap isn't difficult, it does go hand-in-hand with having more mouths to feed and maintain, and bigger load-outs in Coliseum. In addition, lair slots are quite pricey, and new lair spaces would have to be at least as expensive as the tiers below them. While we could just pile on more lair slots, that may not be the best route taken. We have, however, heard loud and clear that players want more dragon storage. That's something that we're thinking about, even if it ends up not being in the form of additional lair slots.[/quote] From todays update [quote name="Xhaztol" date="2018-06-07 23:10:41" ] [indent][size=4][b]Dragon Storage Improvements and the Hibernal Den[b][/size] Dragon storage and organization are some of the oldest systems on the site and next in line for a rehaul! Over the years we’ve collected feedback, done research, and have a pretty good idea how we’d like to move forward with making changes. While these may not reflect the final functionality of the feature, our goals are twofold: Firstly, we will be implementing a way to [b]organize dragons into specific groups[/b] or “tabs”. For instance, say that you have several dragons that are themed to look like flowing lava. You might create and label a tab “Lavaflow Dragons” and move all of those dragons into it. It would then be simple to jump over and look at them by clicking that group’s tab at the top of your dragons page. While we’re still discussing it, our initial plans are to give all players several free tabs to play around with and the ability to unlock additional tabs with treasure. Along with better grouping options, we would like to introduce better [b]searching[/b], [b]sorting[/b], and [b]filtering[/b] options so that it’s far easier to find the dragon or dragons you’re looking for. Secondly, there will be an additional storage area called the [b]Hibernal Den[/b]. Over the years, we have seen lots of desire for [b]a place to showcase and store dragons you love, but don’t plan on having interact with the rest of the site[/b] all the time (i.e. breeding, coliseum, trading, etc.) and more importantly, not depleting your food stores or averaged clan energy. A type of “dragon gallery” or “dragon vault”, if you will. The Hibernal Den would be a place to move dragons you still want to keep, but don’t plan on using for gameplay in the near future. This storage system would allow your dragons to hibernate, retaining their current apparel, familiars, and biographies, allowing you to share and collect them. Of course, you will be able to remove them from the Hibernal Den to rejoin your active dragons, but a period of time will need to pass before they can hibernate again. We’re still tossing around several ideas for this revamp, but look forward to more information in upcoming [b]Developer Updates[/b]! [/quote] Yet another update.. does not bode well.. [quote name="Xhaztol" date="2018-07-31 15:34:21" ] We're seeing a lot of questions re: Hibernal Den, so I figured I'd jump in real quick. I'd like to remind everyone that just because a project isn't mentioned in an update does not mean it has been shelved and isn't being worked on. In these Dev Updates, we've opted to be concise and not to include incremental progress on all of the projects we've got in the pipe, mostly because of how often development can change in the earliest phases. Both the World Map and Roundsey's Raffle Roulette happened to be in a place where we could share what we were working on, which is why they were the headliners today. As for Hibernal Den: [b]we mentioned it in our anniversary post and it remains an initiative for the next calendar year,[/b] but is not really in a place where we can showcase anything. It's a very complex feature and one we want to tackle intelligently and thoroughly as a team, so it may be a little while before we provide more details about it. Believe me, when we've got something to share, we absolutely will! :) [/quote] If the collectors can afford the lair expansions and to feed their dragons I dont see why that should be reason NOT to increase lair space... Whats the point in adding more dragons if we dont get more room... This goes both for us old dragon collectors and the gen one collectors.. why should they sink time and money into dragons which eventually will need to be put away Please let your support for more regular lairspace be know. - Even if your views already have been expressed then every comment is valuable :D I KNOW I am not the only one out there wanting more lairspace and who is concerned about thevault /storage option @Emberglo @Faileas @Mythnomer @Cealygosa @Trachynhawb gave you a ping just in case your post is deleted. @AoiNoRyuu pinging you as you have a similar thread :D Want to collect it all into one :D @April @JD1620 I allowed myself to ping you guys as I saw that you really want more lairspace too. Could use your backup/View on this matter :D Hope you dont mind Just to be clear I am NOT against dragon storage, Its just not for me. If its added great, but let the ones who want more lairspace get it. IF we can afford it and keep our dragons fed then let us Im concerned for what this means. Reply from one of the admins [quote name="Aequorin" date="2018-02-07 10:37:31" ] Without commenting on anything specific with respect to individual suggestions, I need to clarify a misunderstanding we're seeing. We did not say we will never again add lair space, nor did we say we do not want to. What we said in the Ask the Team answer set, while we could just pile on more lair slots, that may not be the best route taken. Our development decisions are always made with heavy consideration to game balance and the overall longevity of the game. We wanted to give you some transparency on where we are, to assure you that we are not ignoring you on this subject. We know this is important to you. Please continue discussing this and giving us your feedback; however, when you do, take our answer on its face: we are talking about this internally and exploring ideas. [/quote] Here are some Quotes which sums up this thread really well [quote name="Cealygosa" date=2018-02-06 14:11:02] Ah, thank you for the ping, dear I'm not a gen one nor an old dragon collector - however, I enjoy making breeding pairs that are rare. I collect rare color combos and then turn them into unique breeding pairs. I have 60 breeding pairs right now - the rest of my dragons being older dragons I cherish since joining the game. If I got rid of them, I know I would have room for more pairs...but that ruins the whole idea of cherishing particular dragons. I hit page 10 a few days ago, and I'm fearful of completing it...I always want to collect more amazing pairs - with new genes constantly coming out...I want to have multiple pairs reflecting those genes. You can't add to a game this often and expect to not give us the ability to use all the content. I've known accounts who have been lair capped since way early on - who knows how much content they can't even access without getting rid of "old" content. This is a breeding pet site. Why are we limited to what we can breed ? I adore this game, play it everyday, spend my money on it, I want to be able to continue playing it. Reaching the cap will force me to get rid of so many loved dragons...just to keep up with the ever-changing content. You need to balance output of content with how much content can be used - lair expansion limits is not this balance. While we know nothing about this alluded "storage", I'm very worried about what it'll be. Switching out dragons or setting them aside seems all good and all, but in the end...the amount of dragons we can hold is limited. There is only so much a storage / bank can do. If the people with ten pages can afford more, let them buy more? Being able to buy more, whatever the price, is better than this space limit not allowing us to do anything at all. Coliseum loadout is understandable , having more dragons means loading more dragons into the Organize Party section and etc. However...your game is growing. You need to be able to grow your capabilities with it, to be an efficient game. I understand this game is run by volunteers and has a small team, but you have to consider what you need to prioritize on to stabilize your product. Sure, not everyone in the game is maxed out. However...those who are, probably spend real money on this game - being able to provide to your source of support is very important in the success of the site. In all honesty, this game has limited features, so limiting those features ( collecting more and more dragons ) just isn't an effective way of developing the site. I love this game thoroughly - this was not meant to antagonize the team or anything of the sort, just to clarify what I personally feel and to maybe help put the point across that we inevitably need more lair space. I am eager to continue supporting this game and want to see it's utmost success :) [/quote] [quote name="VeiledOverdose" date=2018-02-06 20:00:58] Since I'm one of those who are maxed, I'm going to have just a bit of a rant of sorts here because I wasn't exactly pleased upon reading that today. I [b]don't[/b] want dragon storage if, one, there's no increase in lair space, and two, if it's something where you can't do things with the dragon such as dress them/give them familiars. I'm a lore lair. I don't want to have a "storage" where dragons have no familiar, no bio, and no accent/apparel. I want to showcase my dragons, show off their lore and things about them, and that kind of a storage doesn't warrant that. I'd be absolutely fine if it was in addition to more lair space. That's different, and I'm really hoping that's what they were implying. If not, staff, please reconsider, storage like that's not gonna help in the long run. I want to show off my dragons, show off their bios/eventual lore, not shove them to the side and out of my lair. No. This is a dragon collecting game. Having a limit like that is against what this game's about. Feeding/cost isn't as much of an issue. If people are maxed in both space and amount of dragons, they're obviously fine with paying the prices, and if their dragons are fed, have no problems feeding them, either. As for costs, have a limit. Don't make it keep going up. Have a cap. In fact all the last set of expansions were the same price. Keep it that way. [quote name="Sopheroo" date=2018-02-06 12:32:50] [quote]We have, however, heard loud and clear that players want more dragon storage. That's something that we're thinking about, even if it ends up not being in the form of additional lair slots.[/quote] Yeah, no. We have an opportunity for dragon storage, it's called "saving the pictures on our personal hard drives" Lair expansions are a great money sink, and staff, one of two real money sinks you have. ;) [/quote] Haha first, exactly. I have a place offsite with dragon images put up and all. That's my storage. I don't need one here. Two, that's another thing that is good about lair expansions. The big ones are huge money sinks! Advantage. Even with a cap that can still be a huge load of money out of the system. Also, as for food, one, fix the gathering system. The fact I can still get ONE TWO-POINT FOOD ITEM when the section's at level 40 is something that needs to have something done about it. Make a stack limit. Make it so you get a certain amount of food points minimum. Also have it so you can't have a turn with ONLY A FAMILIAR and NOTHING ELSE. That one really irritates me and needs to be done away with. It's not the lair space that's a problem there, it's a different feature. I might not have issues since I gather and do Coli, but maybe fixing up gathering so it helps people who don't coli/coli much have less issues with food. [img]https://i.imgur.com/qNfZK2r.png[/img] I mean c'mon. I'm maxed and I don't struggle with food at all. I'm sure there are other maxed people who are the same way. Hell, I'm sure anyone who's maxed and is for more lair space don't have food issues. So really, that isn't a good reason at all to not increase the lair space cap. Because if other things get fixed, it's less of an issue. As for the Coli, it's being rewritten/worked on. Make it so it doesn't have issues loading lots of dragons. If this was an issue, why did you work it so it can load all dragons, including ineligible dragons like HATCHLINGS? Hell, have it so it only loads some at a time and it'll load more as you scroll down so not all of them load at once. Bam, fixed. [quote name="butcherbaby" date="2018-06-04 00:48:40" ] Hmm, lost this thread for awhile, but just read through everything! And I still am in support of more lair spaces, and ASAP, please! I haven't seen an argument against them that is not something that could/should be worked around by devs (by which I mean, they should have anticipated this from the start, and worked to deal with these issues); or that really isn't something that would be affected by people being able to purchase as many lair spaces as they can afford. I'll try to respond to some of them! First though, I'll state why the idea of storage is an unattractive one FOR ME- though I fully concede that it would be useful & necessary for others who have different playstyles! Number One Reason- I have my lair in a certain order because *I want it that way*. I spent a *LOT* of time arranging my dragons *just so*, by colors and/or themes, and I don't want to mess that up because I might not be breeding or coli-ing with some particular pairs or dragons. Even if "storage" looks just like a regular lair page, and dragons can be displayed, viewed, and interacted with, it would mess up the lair order I work so hard on. Unless "storage" or "stasis" or whatever were spaces that could be placed in any location in your lair, so the order remains the same, it would not be workable for me. And not only that, I want to be able to name them, gene them, dress them, click familiars, change accents & familiars, edit bios, and so on. This includes dragons I have yet to gene/breed change, or ones I use for breeding projects. I have an *extensive* skin & accent collection (900+), so even non-permas get accents & apparel tossed on and look beautiful (and familiars, too.) I have *zero* dragons I want to store out of sight, or on a sparate page or whatever. Reason Number the Second- If there were ANY other penalty other than that stored dragons cannot breed or coli (and therefore do not need to be fed), and no more than a MINIMAL cost for storage spaces- like a maximum cap of 50kt per 5 spaces no matter how many you buy beyond the cap amount, with the first 5-10 spaces free, like with lairs- I would NEVER ever EVER use them. I mean, isn't the fact you can't breed or coli them ENOUGH of a "penalty"? Why would you *also* want them to be unable to grow up/cooldown, or lose their RTB status, or pay a treasure fine, or have a time limit, or anything else- especially if you've ALREADY had to pay for the spaces themselves? I wouldn't have any reason to PUT them in storage unless I was both sorely lacking space for them AND waiting for them to grow, or cooldown, so this makes no sense to me at all. There's no penalty for storing things in your vault, why should there be one for basically, vaulting your dragons? Even if we got a ton of storage spaces absolutely free, I would still say NO PENALTIES, but with free spaces (and ONLY with free spaces), I'd at least be OK with not being able to change them, and maybe with them not growing/cooling down while IN storage as long as I could take them in & out as often as I wanted with absolutely no associated costs/penalties/losses, and they could be stored dressed/accented/familiared/etc. and I could still place them wherever I wanted in my lair. Having storage be expensive, or with penalties will just discourage people from using it, and that sure won't solve the lairspace problem! And even if storage were all I dreamed of, I *STILL* would need more lair space, and LOTS of it, because I want more dragons! I have so many saved AH searches for beautiful dragons/breeding projects/mates I have no room for, and I would REALLY like to be able to display more than just a quarter of my skin & accent collection, something I have spent HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of gems on and THOUSANDS of dollars of IRL money on those gems...which is going to eventually trickle to a stop if I don't have new dragons to display them on. Which reminds me, of the objections of people stating that players with enormous lairs will end up fabulously rich and blow the economy....Um, not really. Most items on here are NOT out of reach of less intense players- just look at the AH and all the junk apparel, familiars, and items. Fest stuff is abundant, most rare familiars go down in price over time, the marketplace restocks constantly, Swipp & Baldwin, and even coli drop items can *all* be gotten with enough patience, even food is overstocked. What, pray tell, is it exactly that the wealthy players are going to be spending all their dragon cash on to wreck the economy and throw everything out of proportion? 4g junk fams/apparel to throw in the Baldwin pot? Personally, I can't even come CLOSE to melting all the crap in my hoard no matter how much I melt, It just keeps getting replenished every time I open a chest or get coli drops. Sure, there are rare & special items that the "rich" or power players go for, but those are things that haven't been in reach of casual players for a LOOOONG time. Many of them were out of reach even when I started in October 2014. What are they? The biggies would be g1/g2 Imps, low digit dragons, Imp scrolls, custom & rare accents, KS items, some first year items, nice g1s of any age. A lot of those things are *very* limited in number and have always tended to be the domain of specialized collectors, not casual players, and guess what? When the rich players who buy/collect/hoard those things get bored & leave because they've reached their lair caps, those G1 Imps, Gilded Crowns, Light Sprites, and so on are then stuck on dead accounts forever, never to be resold or circulated back into the game. So really, that lack of lair expansions is what's making the economy worse, and those rare items become even fewer & rarer & even MORE expensive. And to me it's much harder to understand how people with small lairs have trouble keeping their lairs fed than I do actually keeping 200 dragons full up on energy. My daily gathering turns + a few days of coli a month (usually during fests, when my gathering turns all go to digging) is PLENTY to keep my dragons fed no matter what. I've come back from breaks with 150+ starving dragons, hardly any food reserves, and little money, and still managed to have them all fully fed quite quickly- I can hoardsell and put stuff on the AH for money to buy cheap food, use all my gathering turns for food, and hold off on feeding til I know I will have enough food points to energize my fighters, whereupon I can hit the coli & work the lower levels/fast & easy battles til I rack up a decent amount of food. When I did coli all the time, I had 10-15k points in each food category PLUS surpluses I could sell. I can't imagine it being any different if I had more dragons, except I'd have to coli more, because I hate spending my dragon cash on food instead of pretties! No casual players will be starved out because collectors can buy more spaces, food will not become scarce. If anything, we'll see more in the market, with more people ending up with surplus from being able to participate in dom. When I started, I had the spaces for 100 dragons in *exactly* two months, and maxed it to 145 not long after...and it only took that long because I preferred to wait for Shadow to have Dom to purchase spaces for that sweet, sweet discount. And now I've hit a wall- I have to send dragons over to my husband when I want to hatch nests, my breeding projects are all on hold, I have 20+ dragons that need mates, and NO ROOM to do anything. [/quote] [quote name="hat17" date=2018-02-08 13:59:48] The thing that I'm worried about and the reason why I posted in this thread was to voice my concerns over the idea of a 'storage' over 'more lair spaces'. What you said here is what I have in mind when I saw the word 'storage', but there might be additional restrictions (eg, cooldown period; hunger level, etc) to stop people from exploiting the feature. We just don't know what can happen, and yes I agree since we don't know we probably shouldn't jump on it yet, but I'd rather tell staff what exactly we're looking for when we want more lair space to begin with, rather than wait until they roll out a new feature then said 'no that's not what we want'. I'd like them to get it right at the beginning if possible. Tbh, the part that worries me the most in the Q&A post was not the word 'storage', but the reason why they are looking at storage instead of giving us more lair spaces. The only one that makes sense to me is the coliseum load-out time. The expansion costs and food are both non-issues that they use as reasons, and that's what worries me as to where they are heading... [/quote] [quote name="Jemadar" date=2018-02-10 06:52:56] The thing is, there HAS to be a difference between storage and lair space, and that is what has everyone concerned. We can already assume that 'storage' would mean, due to the wording on the Q&A, that these dragons do not eat food (more mouths to feed) and that they do not coli (coli-loadout). We can also assume that either storage would be 'free' or it would be cheaper than expanding your lair fully (the next expansions would have to be at least as expensive as the previous one) If the dragons do not eat food, but can do everything else and the storage is cheaper to get, then essentially this would break the economy because players could dump their breeding pairs into this storage and never worry about feeding them. They would also then have all those spaces to breed fodder, so they wouldn't buy the dragons from the AH (why bother buying dragons to exalt when you can have a certain number of breeding pairs, that don't eat, so you can basically hatch a nest a day and exalt those babies? Even 2 nests a day. I know it wouldn't stop all people from buying dragons to exalt, but it would stop some, especially with all the drama that buying to exalt causes) Not to mention, players could keep two dragons in their 'lair' and easily keep their well fed bonus by feeding those two dragons, and then selling the excess food, while still having tons of dragons to breed and collect. So, judging by that, there would need to have more restrictions on the storage than just no coli and no feeding, and truthfully, with the idea of being able to stick all but one or two dragons into storage (as I don't breed my dragons that often and I coli only sporadically, but could keep my coli dragons out and just haul out fodder dragons when I feel like training them) it would still have a negative effect on the economy. So, no coli, no breeding, and perhaps other restrictions to prevent abuse, such as things like instead of buying slots, you have unlimited, but you can't change anything about the dragon (it keeps apparel, bios, and familiars when put into storage, but it can't be changed until it is taken out of storage) and a cost to put dragons into storage and take them out. I do agree that we need more information on exactly what this storage entails, but without that information, it is easy to jump to conclusions. As I believe thecatsred said, it is much better to hash out what is wanted/needed NOW before the work has, presumably, started on the mechanic than after it has started or after it has been presented to the user base as a mechanic. It is much easier to change a concept than code or a finished product. [/quote] [quote name="Alyxsandre" date="2018-02-21 19:37:57" ] I'm happy I didn't go along with posting a new thread and searched instead I've been capped for almost a year now and let me tell you, it is the most painful thing in the face of the planet. I've had to exalt dragons I spent REAL MONEY on so I can breed my breeding pairs, give away dragons I wanted cross-lair lore with, and just overall destroy my sanity over trying to find dragons I could maybe get rid of because I just didn't have the space. I don't Coli and yet I can still feed ALL my dragons only by gathering (8P to everyone who says you can't. I'm living proof), I don't participate in dom, I don't even hatch g1s to sell or buy to flip. I merely collect. I breed combos I love, scatter G1s for OC dragons, collect old dragons to spoil, etc. I would even say screw it and be ok with paying GEMS for expansions because that's how desperate I am for them! I WANT to try to breed for pretty XYZ pairs to spred the love for more underrated colors, I WANT to do so much but yet I'm here being forced to get rid of dragons I've loved for LITERAL YEARS just because I can't hatch a nest. Storage would be cool for exalting lairs, but not for collectors :/ I really want this to be addressed soon, because my heart breaks every time I'm forced to get rid of a dragon or stop my breeding projects just because I don't have the space any more... [/quote] [quote name="butcherbaby" date="2018-06-04 00:48:40" ] Hmm, lost this thread for awhile, but just read through everything! And I still am in support of more lair spaces, and ASAP, please! I haven't seen an argument against them that is not something that could/should be worked around by devs (by which I mean, they should have anticipated this from the start, and worked to deal with these issues); or that really isn't something that would be affected by people being able to purchase as many lair spaces as they can afford. I'll try to respond to some of them! First though, I'll state why the idea of storage is an unattractive one FOR ME- though I fully concede that it would be useful & necessary for others who have different playstyles! Number One Reason- I have my lair in a certain order because *I want it that way*. I spent a *LOT* of time arranging my dragons *just so*, by colors and/or themes, and I don't want to mess that up because I might not be breeding or coli-ing with some particular pairs or dragons. Even if "storage" looks just like a regular lair page, and dragons can be displayed, viewed, and interacted with, it would mess up the lair order I work so hard on. Unless "storage" or "stasis" or whatever were spaces that could be placed in any location in your lair, so the order remains the same, it would not be workable for me. And not only that, I want to be able to name them, gene them, dress them, click familiars, change accents & familiars, edit bios, and so on. This includes dragons I have yet to gene/breed change, or ones I use for breeding projects. I have an *extensive* skin & accent collection (900+), so even non-permas get accents & apparel tossed on and look beautiful (and familiars, too.) I have *zero* dragons I want to store out of sight, or on a sparate page or whatever. Reason Number the Second- If there were ANY other penalty other than that stored dragons cannot breed or coli (and therefore do not need to be fed), and no more than a MINIMAL cost for storage spaces- like a maximum cap of 50kt per 5 spaces no matter how many you buy beyond the cap amount, with the first 5-10 spaces free, like with lairs- I would NEVER ever EVER use them. I mean, isn't the fact you can't breed or coli them ENOUGH of a "penalty"? Why would you *also* want them to be unable to grow up/cooldown, or lose their RTB status, or pay a treasure fine, or have a time limit, or anything else- especially if you've ALREADY had to pay for the spaces themselves? I wouldn't have any reason to PUT them in storage unless I was both sorely lacking space for them AND waiting for them to grow, or cooldown, so this makes no sense to me at all. There's no penalty for storing things in your vault, why should there be one for basically, vaulting your dragons? Even if we got a ton of storage spaces absolutely free, I would still say NO PENALTIES, but with free spaces (and ONLY with free spaces), I'd at least be OK with not being able to change them, and maybe with them not growing/cooling down while IN storage as long as I could take them in & out as often as I wanted with absolutely no associated costs/penalties/losses, and they could be stored dressed/accented/familiared/etc. and I could still place them wherever I wanted in my lair. Having storage be expensive, or with penalties will just discourage people from using it, and that sure won't solve the lairspace problem! And even if storage were all I dreamed of, I *STILL* would need more lair space, and LOTS of it, because I want more dragons! I have so many saved AH searches for beautiful dragons/breeding projects/mates I have no room for, and I would REALLY like to be able to display more than just a quarter of my skin & accent collection, something I have spent HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of gems on and THOUSANDS of dollars of IRL money on those gems...which is going to eventually trickle to a stop if I don't have new dragons to display them on. Which reminds me, of the objections of people stating that players with enormous lairs will end up fabulously rich and blow the economy....Um, not really. Most items on here are NOT out of reach of less intense players- just look at the AH and all the junk apparel, familiars, and items. Fest stuff is abundant, most rare familiars go down in price over time, the marketplace restocks constantly, Swipp & Baldwin, and even coli drop items can *all* be gotten with enough patience, even food is overstocked. What, pray tell, is it exactly that the wealthy players are going to be spending all their dragon cash on to wreck the economy and throw everything out of proportion? 4g junk fams/apparel to throw in the Baldwin pot? Personally, I can't even come CLOSE to melting all the crap in my hoard no matter how much I melt, It just keeps getting replenished every time I open a chest or get coli drops. Sure, there are rare & special items that the "rich" or power players go for, but those are things that haven't been in reach of casual players for a LOOOONG time. Many of them were out of reach even when I started in October 2014. What are they? The biggies would be g1/g2 Imps, low digit dragons, Imp scrolls, custom & rare accents, KS items, some first year items, nice g1s of any age. A lot of those things are *very* limited in number and have always tended to be the domain of specialized collectors, not casual players, and guess what? When the rich players who buy/collect/hoard those things get bored & leave because they've reached their lair caps, those G1 Imps, Gilded Crowns, Light Sprites, and so on are then stuck on dead accounts forever, never to be resold or circulated back into the game. So really, that lack of lair expansions is what's making the economy worse, and those rare items become even fewer & rarer & even MORE expensive. And to me it's much harder to understand how people with small lairs have trouble keeping their lairs fed than I do actually keeping 200 dragons full up on energy. My daily gathering turns + a few days of coli a month (usually during fests, when my gathering turns all go to digging) is PLENTY to keep my dragons fed no matter what. I've come back from breaks with 150+ starving dragons, hardly any food reserves, and little money, and still managed to have them all fully fed quite quickly- I can hoardsell and put stuff on the AH for money to buy cheap food, use all my gathering turns for food, and hold off on feeding til I know I will have enough food points to energize my fighters, whereupon I can hit the coli & work the lower levels/fast & easy battles til I rack up a decent amount of food. When I did coli all the time, I had 10-15k points in each food category PLUS surpluses I could sell. I can't imagine it being any different if I had more dragons, except I'd have to coli more, because I hate spending my dragon cash on food instead of pretties! No casual players will be starved out because collectors can buy more spaces, food will not become scarce. If anything, we'll see more in the market, with more people ending up with surplus from being able to participate in dom. When I started, I had the spaces for 100 dragons in *exactly* two months, and maxed it to 145 not long after...and it only took that long because I preferred to wait for Shadow to have Dom to purchase spaces for that sweet, sweet discount. And now I've hit a wall- I have to send dragons over to my husband when I want to hatch nests, my breeding projects are all on hold, I have 20+ dragons that need mates, and NO ROOM to do anything. [/quote] [quote name="Lykos" date="2018-09-08 06:48:00" ] Personally, I believe that capping players out due to food is kind of strange. Yes, it restricts players when they're doing Coli and breeding but there's a simple mechanic that can actually kill two birds with one stone: It's probably more complex than it seems - I've done a bit of program coding and it can get complicated fast, especially with so many additional variables - but they could try to alleviate a food problem completely based on the amount of dragons in your lair OR slots. Whichever is preferred. This is just during gathering alone. For example, I would be guaranteed to get (at minimum) enough food through gathering to feed my entire lair (since not everyone does Coli). This would scale depending on dragons or slots (again, whatever is easiest might be most helpful starting out). This food could, ofc, be set based on level and what I mean by this is that level could determine how many turns it'll take you to get enough food for your lair (so low level could mean less extra items but you're still getting extra) in addition to the item rarity and items you have access to. As a lot of people complain about the congested levels later on when you get access to more stuff since % chance doesn't change, this kills that problem too. You're allowing ALL lairs to get what they need - even players that don't Coli - and fixing the problem you're using as an excuse (not saying it's not valid; it is) to not make slots unlimited. Permanently, at that. Edit: To clarify, gathering in one place could be guaranteed to give enough food to feed the dragons that eat it OR give enough to feed all the dragons even if they don't (which would just be extra anyway). [/quote]
From the Q & A
Quote:
While the act of increasing the cap isn't difficult, it does go hand-in-hand with having more mouths to feed and maintain, and bigger load-outs in Coliseum. In addition, lair slots are quite pricey, and new lair spaces would have to be at least as expensive as the tiers below them. While we could just pile on more lair slots, that may not be the best route taken.

We have, however, heard loud and clear that players want more dragon storage. That's something that we're thinking about, even if it ends up not being in the form of additional lair slots.

From todays update
Xhaztol wrote on 2018-06-07 23:10:41:
Dragon Storage Improvements and the Hibernal Den

Dragon storage and organization are some of the oldest systems on the site and next in line for a rehaul! Over the years we’ve collected feedback, done research, and have a pretty good idea how we’d like to move forward with making changes. While these may not reflect the final functionality of the feature, our goals are twofold:

Firstly, we will be implementing a way to organize dragons into specific groups or “tabs”. For instance, say that you have several dragons that are themed to look like flowing lava. You might create and label a tab “Lavaflow Dragons” and move all of those dragons into it. It would then be simple to jump over and look at them by clicking that group’s tab at the top of your dragons page. While we’re still discussing it, our initial plans are to give all players several free tabs to play around with and the ability to unlock additional tabs with treasure. Along with better grouping options, we would like to introduce better searching, sorting, and filtering options so that it’s far easier to find the dragon or dragons you’re looking for.

Secondly, there will be an additional storage area called the Hibernal Den. Over the years, we have seen lots of desire for a place to showcase and store dragons you love, but don’t plan on having interact with the rest of the site all the time (i.e. breeding, coliseum, trading, etc.) and more importantly, not depleting your food stores or averaged clan energy. A type of “dragon gallery” or “dragon vault”, if you will. The Hibernal Den would be a place to move dragons you still want to keep, but don’t plan on using for gameplay in the near future. This storage system would allow your dragons to hibernate, retaining their current apparel, familiars, and biographies, allowing you to share and collect them. Of course, you will be able to remove them from the Hibernal Den to rejoin your active dragons, but a period of time will need to pass before they can hibernate again.

We’re still tossing around several ideas for this revamp, but look forward to more information in upcoming Developer Updates!

Yet another update.. does not bode well..
Xhaztol wrote on 2018-07-31 15:34:21:
We're seeing a lot of questions re: Hibernal Den, so I figured I'd jump in real quick.

I'd like to remind everyone that just because a project isn't mentioned in an update does not mean it has been shelved and isn't being worked on. In these Dev Updates, we've opted to be concise and not to include incremental progress on all of the projects we've got in the pipe, mostly because of how often development can change in the earliest phases.

Both the World Map and Roundsey's Raffle Roulette happened to be in a place where we could share what we were working on, which is why they were the headliners today.

As for Hibernal Den: we mentioned it in our anniversary post and it remains an initiative for the next calendar year, but is not really in a place where we can showcase anything. It's a very complex feature and one we want to tackle intelligently and thoroughly as a team, so it may be a little while before we provide more details about it. Believe me, when we've got something to share, we absolutely will! :)


If the collectors can afford the lair expansions and to feed their dragons I dont see why that should be reason NOT to increase lair space...

Whats the point in adding more dragons if we dont get more room... This goes both for us old dragon collectors and the gen one collectors.. why should they sink time and money into dragons which eventually will need to be put away

Please let your support for more regular lairspace be know. - Even if your views already have been expressed then every comment is valuable :D

I KNOW I am not the only one out there wanting more lairspace and who is concerned about thevault /storage option
@Emberglo @Faileas @Mythnomer @Cealygosa

@Trachynhawb gave you a ping just in case your post is deleted.

@AoiNoRyuu pinging you as you have a similar thread :D Want to collect it all into one :D

@April @JD1620 I allowed myself to ping you guys as I saw that you really want more lairspace too. Could use your backup/View on this matter :D Hope you dont mind

Just to be clear I am NOT against dragon storage, Its just not for me. If its added great, but let the ones who want more lairspace get it. IF we can afford it and keep our dragons fed then let us

Im concerned for what this means.

Reply from one of the admins
Aequorin wrote on 2018-02-07 10:37:31:
Without commenting on anything specific with respect to individual suggestions, I need to clarify a misunderstanding we're seeing.

We did not say we will never again add lair space, nor did we say we do not want to. What we said in the Ask the Team answer set, while we could just pile on more lair slots, that may not be the best route taken. Our development decisions are always made with heavy consideration to game balance and the overall longevity of the game.

We wanted to give you some transparency on where we are, to assure you that we are not ignoring you on this subject. We know this is important to you. Please continue discussing this and giving us your feedback; however, when you do, take our answer on its face: we are talking about this internally and exploring ideas.

Here are some Quotes which sums up this thread really well

Cealygosa wrote on 2018-02-06:
Ah, thank you for the ping, dear

I'm not a gen one nor an old dragon collector - however, I enjoy making breeding pairs that are rare. I collect rare color combos and then turn them into unique breeding pairs.

I have 60 breeding pairs right now - the rest of my dragons being older dragons I cherish since joining the game. If I got rid of them, I know I would have room for more pairs...but that ruins the whole idea of cherishing particular dragons.

I hit page 10 a few days ago, and I'm fearful of completing it...I always want to collect more amazing pairs - with new genes constantly coming out...I want to have multiple pairs reflecting those genes. You can't add to a game this often and expect to not give us the ability to use all the content. I've known accounts who have been lair capped since way early on - who knows how much content they can't even access without getting rid of "old" content.

This is a breeding pet site. Why are we limited to what we can breed ? I adore this game, play it everyday, spend my money on it, I want to be able to continue playing it. Reaching the cap will force me to get rid of so many loved dragons...just to keep up with the ever-changing content.

You need to balance output of content with how much content can be used - lair expansion limits is not this balance. While we know nothing about this alluded "storage", I'm very worried about what it'll be. Switching out dragons or setting them aside seems all good and all, but in the end...the amount of dragons we can hold is limited. There is only so much a storage / bank can do.

If the people with ten pages can afford more, let them buy more? Being able to buy more, whatever the price, is better than this space limit not allowing us to do anything at all.

Coliseum loadout is understandable , having more dragons means loading more dragons into the Organize Party section and etc. However...your game is growing. You need to be able to grow your capabilities with it, to be an efficient game. I understand this game is run by volunteers and has a small team, but you have to consider what you need to prioritize on to stabilize your product.

Sure, not everyone in the game is maxed out. However...those who are, probably spend real money on this game - being able to provide to your source of support is very important in the success of the site.

In all honesty, this game has limited features, so limiting those features ( collecting more and more dragons ) just isn't an effective way of developing the site.

I love this game thoroughly - this was not meant to antagonize the team or anything of the sort, just to clarify what I personally feel and to maybe help put the point across that we inevitably need more lair space. I am eager to continue supporting this game and want to see it's utmost success :)

VeiledOverdose wrote on 2018-02-06:
Since I'm one of those who are maxed, I'm going to have just a bit of a rant of sorts here because I wasn't exactly pleased upon reading that today.

I don't want dragon storage if, one, there's no increase in lair space, and two, if it's something where you can't do things with the dragon such as dress them/give them familiars. I'm a lore lair. I don't want to have a "storage" where dragons have no familiar, no bio, and no accent/apparel. I want to showcase my dragons, show off their lore and things about them, and that kind of a storage doesn't warrant that.

I'd be absolutely fine if it was in addition to more lair space. That's different, and I'm really hoping that's what they were implying. If not, staff, please reconsider, storage like that's not gonna help in the long run. I want to show off my dragons, show off their bios/eventual lore, not shove them to the side and out of my lair. No.

This is a dragon collecting game. Having a limit like that is against what this game's about.

Feeding/cost isn't as much of an issue. If people are maxed in both space and amount of dragons, they're obviously fine with paying the prices, and if their dragons are fed, have no problems feeding them, either. As for costs, have a limit. Don't make it keep going up. Have a cap. In fact all the last set of expansions were the same price. Keep it that way.

Sopheroo wrote on 2018-02-06:
Quote:
We have, however, heard loud and clear that players want more dragon storage. That's something that we're thinking about, even if it ends up not being in the form of additional lair slots.

Yeah, no. We have an opportunity for dragon storage, it's called "saving the pictures on our personal hard drives"

Lair expansions are a great money sink, and staff, one of two real money sinks you have. ;)

Haha first, exactly. I have a place offsite with dragon images put up and all. That's my storage. I don't need one here.

Two, that's another thing that is good about lair expansions. The big ones are huge money sinks! Advantage. Even with a cap that can still be a huge load of money out of the system.


Also, as for food, one, fix the gathering system. The fact I can still get ONE TWO-POINT FOOD ITEM when the section's at level 40 is something that needs to have something done about it. Make a stack limit. Make it so you get a certain amount of food points minimum. Also have it so you can't have a turn with ONLY A FAMILIAR and NOTHING ELSE. That one really irritates me and needs to be done away with. It's not the lair space that's a problem there, it's a different feature. I might not have issues since I gather and do Coli, but maybe fixing up gathering so it helps people who don't coli/coli much have less issues with food.

qNfZK2r.png

I mean c'mon. I'm maxed and I don't struggle with food at all. I'm sure there are other maxed people who are the same way. Hell, I'm sure anyone who's maxed and is for more lair space don't have food issues. So really, that isn't a good reason at all to not increase the lair space cap. Because if other things get fixed, it's less of an issue.

As for the Coli, it's being rewritten/worked on. Make it so it doesn't have issues loading lots of dragons. If this was an issue, why did you work it so it can load all dragons, including ineligible dragons like HATCHLINGS? Hell, have it so it only loads some at a time and it'll load more as you scroll down so not all of them load at once. Bam, fixed.

butcherbaby wrote on 2018-06-04 00:48:40:
Hmm, lost this thread for awhile, but just read through everything!

And I still am in support of more lair spaces, and ASAP, please!

I haven't seen an argument against them that is not something that could/should be worked around by devs (by which I mean, they should have anticipated this from the start, and worked to deal with these issues); or that really isn't something that would be affected by people being able to purchase as many lair spaces as they can afford. I'll try to respond to some of them!

First though, I'll state why the idea of storage is an unattractive one FOR ME- though I fully concede that it would be useful & necessary for others who have different playstyles!

Number One Reason- I have my lair in a certain order because *I want it that way*. I spent a *LOT* of time arranging my dragons *just so*, by colors and/or themes, and I don't want to mess that up because I might not be breeding or coli-ing with some particular pairs or dragons. Even if "storage" looks just like a regular lair page, and dragons can be displayed, viewed, and interacted with, it would mess up the lair order I work so hard on. Unless "storage" or "stasis" or whatever were spaces that could be placed in any location in your lair, so the order remains the same, it would not be workable for me. And not only that, I want to be able to name them, gene them, dress them, click familiars, change accents & familiars, edit bios, and so on.

This includes dragons I have yet to gene/breed change, or ones I use for breeding projects. I have an *extensive* skin & accent collection (900+), so even non-permas get accents & apparel tossed on and look beautiful (and familiars, too.) I have *zero* dragons I want to store out of sight, or on a sparate page or whatever.

Reason Number the Second- If there were ANY other penalty other than that stored dragons cannot breed or coli (and therefore do not need to be fed), and no more than a MINIMAL cost for storage spaces- like a maximum cap of 50kt per 5 spaces no matter how many you buy beyond the cap amount, with the first 5-10 spaces free, like with lairs- I would NEVER ever EVER use them.

I mean, isn't the fact you can't breed or coli them ENOUGH of a "penalty"? Why would you *also* want them to be unable to grow up/cooldown, or lose their RTB status, or pay a treasure fine, or have a time limit, or anything else- especially if you've ALREADY had to pay for the spaces themselves? I wouldn't have any reason to PUT them in storage unless I was both sorely lacking space for them AND waiting for them to grow, or cooldown, so this makes no sense to me at all. There's no penalty for storing things in your vault, why should there be one for basically, vaulting your dragons? Even if we got a ton of storage spaces absolutely free, I would still say NO PENALTIES, but with free spaces (and ONLY with free spaces), I'd at least be OK with not being able to change them, and maybe with them not growing/cooling down while IN storage as long as I could take them in & out as often as I wanted with absolutely no associated costs/penalties/losses, and they could be stored dressed/accented/familiared/etc. and I could still place them wherever I wanted in my lair. Having storage be expensive, or with penalties will just discourage people from using it, and that sure won't solve the lairspace problem!

And even if storage were all I dreamed of, I *STILL* would need more lair space, and LOTS of it, because I want more dragons! I have so many saved AH searches for beautiful dragons/breeding projects/mates I have no room for, and I would REALLY like to be able to display more than just a quarter of my skin & accent collection, something I have spent HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of gems on and THOUSANDS of dollars of IRL money on those gems...which is going to eventually trickle to a stop if I don't have new dragons to display them on.

Which reminds me, of the objections of people stating that players with enormous lairs will end up fabulously rich and blow the economy....Um, not really. Most items on here are NOT out of reach of less intense players- just look at the AH and all the junk apparel, familiars, and items. Fest stuff is abundant, most rare familiars go down in price over time, the marketplace restocks constantly, Swipp & Baldwin, and even coli drop items can *all* be gotten with enough patience, even food is overstocked. What, pray tell, is it exactly that the wealthy players are going to be spending all their dragon cash on to wreck the economy and throw everything out of proportion? 4g junk fams/apparel to throw in the Baldwin pot? Personally, I can't even come CLOSE to melting all the crap in my hoard no matter how much I melt, It just keeps getting replenished every time I open a chest or get coli drops.

Sure, there are rare & special items that the "rich" or power players go for, but those are things that haven't been in reach of casual players for a LOOOONG time. Many of them were out of reach even when I started in October 2014. What are they? The biggies would be g1/g2 Imps, low digit dragons, Imp scrolls, custom & rare accents, KS items, some first year items, nice g1s of any age. A lot of those things are *very* limited in number and have always tended to be the domain of specialized collectors, not casual players, and guess what? When the rich players who buy/collect/hoard those things get bored & leave because they've reached their lair caps, those G1 Imps, Gilded Crowns, Light Sprites, and so on are then stuck on dead accounts forever, never to be resold or circulated back into the game. So really, that lack of lair expansions is what's making the economy worse, and those rare items become even fewer & rarer & even MORE expensive.

And to me it's much harder to understand how people with small lairs have trouble keeping their lairs fed than I do actually keeping 200 dragons full up on energy. My daily gathering turns + a few days of coli a month (usually during fests, when my gathering turns all go to digging) is PLENTY to keep my dragons fed no matter what. I've come back from breaks with 150+ starving dragons, hardly any food reserves, and little money, and still managed to have them all fully fed quite quickly- I can hoardsell and put stuff on the AH for money to buy cheap food, use all my gathering turns for food, and hold off on feeding til I know I will have enough food points to energize my fighters, whereupon I can hit the coli & work the lower levels/fast & easy battles til I rack up a decent amount of food. When I did coli all the time, I had 10-15k points in each food category PLUS surpluses I could sell. I can't imagine it being any different if I had more dragons, except I'd have to coli more, because I hate spending my dragon cash on food instead of pretties! No casual players will be starved out because collectors can buy more spaces, food will not become scarce. If anything, we'll see more in the market, with more people ending up with surplus from being able to participate in dom.

When I started, I had the spaces for 100 dragons in *exactly* two months, and maxed it to 145 not long after...and it only took that long because I preferred to wait for Shadow to have Dom to purchase spaces for that sweet, sweet discount. And now I've hit a wall- I have to send dragons over to my husband when I want to hatch nests, my breeding projects are all on hold, I have 20+ dragons that need mates, and NO ROOM to do anything.






hat17 wrote on 2018-02-08:
The thing that I'm worried about and the reason why I posted in this thread was to voice my concerns over the idea of a 'storage' over 'more lair spaces'. What you said here is what I have in mind when I saw the word 'storage', but there might be additional restrictions (eg, cooldown period; hunger level, etc) to stop people from exploiting the feature. We just don't know what can happen, and yes I agree since we don't know we probably shouldn't jump on it yet, but I'd rather tell staff what exactly we're looking for when we want more lair space to begin with, rather than wait until they roll out a new feature then said 'no that's not what we want'. I'd like them to get it right at the beginning if possible.

Tbh, the part that worries me the most in the Q&A post was not the word 'storage', but the reason why they are looking at storage instead of giving us more lair spaces. The only one that makes sense to me is the coliseum load-out time. The expansion costs and food are both non-issues that they use as reasons, and that's what worries me as to where they are heading...
Jemadar wrote on 2018-02-10:
The thing is, there HAS to be a difference between storage and lair space, and that is what has everyone concerned. We can already assume that 'storage' would mean, due to the wording on the Q&A, that these dragons do not eat food (more mouths to feed) and that they do not coli (coli-loadout). We can also assume that either storage would be 'free' or it would be cheaper than expanding your lair fully (the next expansions would have to be at least as expensive as the previous one) If the dragons do not eat food, but can do everything else and the storage is cheaper to get, then essentially this would break the economy because players could dump their breeding pairs into this storage and never worry about feeding them. They would also then have all those spaces to breed fodder, so they wouldn't buy the dragons from the AH (why bother buying dragons to exalt when you can have a certain number of breeding pairs, that don't eat, so you can basically hatch a nest a day and exalt those babies? Even 2 nests a day. I know it wouldn't stop all people from buying dragons to exalt, but it would stop some, especially with all the drama that buying to exalt causes)

Not to mention, players could keep two dragons in their 'lair' and easily keep their well fed bonus by feeding those two dragons, and then selling the excess food, while still having tons of dragons to breed and collect.

So, judging by that, there would need to have more restrictions on the storage than just no coli and no feeding, and truthfully, with the idea of being able to stick all but one or two dragons into storage (as I don't breed my dragons that often and I coli only sporadically, but could keep my coli dragons out and just haul out fodder dragons when I feel like training them) it would still have a negative effect on the economy. So, no coli, no breeding, and perhaps other restrictions to prevent abuse, such as things like instead of buying slots, you have unlimited, but you can't change anything about the dragon (it keeps apparel, bios, and familiars when put into storage, but it can't be changed until it is taken out of storage) and a cost to put dragons into storage and take them out.

I do agree that we need more information on exactly what this storage entails, but without that information, it is easy to jump to conclusions. As I believe thecatsred said, it is much better to hash out what is wanted/needed NOW before the work has, presumably, started on the mechanic than after it has started or after it has been presented to the user base as a mechanic. It is much easier to change a concept than code or a finished product.
Alyxsandre wrote on 2018-02-21 19:37:57:
I'm happy I didn't go along with posting a new thread and searched instead

I've been capped for almost a year now and let me tell you, it is the most painful thing in the face of the planet. I've had to exalt dragons I spent REAL MONEY on so I can breed my breeding pairs, give away dragons I wanted cross-lair lore with, and just overall destroy my sanity over trying to find dragons I could maybe get rid of because I just didn't have the space.

I don't Coli and yet I can still feed ALL my dragons only by gathering (8P to everyone who says you can't. I'm living proof), I don't participate in dom, I don't even hatch g1s to sell or buy to flip.

I merely collect. I breed combos I love, scatter G1s for OC dragons, collect old dragons to spoil, etc.
I would even say screw it and be ok with paying GEMS for expansions because that's how desperate I am for them! I WANT to try to breed for pretty XYZ pairs to spred the love for more underrated colors, I WANT to do so much but yet I'm here being forced to get rid of dragons I've loved for LITERAL YEARS just because I can't hatch a nest.

Storage would be cool for exalting lairs, but not for collectors :/
I really want this to be addressed soon, because my heart breaks every time I'm forced to get rid of a dragon or stop my breeding projects just because I don't have the space any more...
butcherbaby wrote on 2018-06-04 00:48:40:
Hmm, lost this thread for awhile, but just read through everything!

And I still am in support of more lair spaces, and ASAP, please!

I haven't seen an argument against them that is not something that could/should be worked around by devs (by which I mean, they should have anticipated this from the start, and worked to deal with these issues); or that really isn't something that would be affected by people being able to purchase as many lair spaces as they can afford. I'll try to respond to some of them!

First though, I'll state why the idea of storage is an unattractive one FOR ME- though I fully concede that it would be useful & necessary for others who have different playstyles!

Number One Reason- I have my lair in a certain order because *I want it that way*. I spent a *LOT* of time arranging my dragons *just so*, by colors and/or themes, and I don't want to mess that up because I might not be breeding or coli-ing with some particular pairs or dragons. Even if "storage" looks just like a regular lair page, and dragons can be displayed, viewed, and interacted with, it would mess up the lair order I work so hard on. Unless "storage" or "stasis" or whatever were spaces that could be placed in any location in your lair, so the order remains the same, it would not be workable for me. And not only that, I want to be able to name them, gene them, dress them, click familiars, change accents & familiars, edit bios, and so on.

This includes dragons I have yet to gene/breed change, or ones I use for breeding projects. I have an *extensive* skin & accent collection (900+), so even non-permas get accents & apparel tossed on and look beautiful (and familiars, too.) I have *zero* dragons I want to store out of sight, or on a sparate page or whatever.

Reason Number the Second- If there were ANY other penalty other than that stored dragons cannot breed or coli (and therefore do not need to be fed), and no more than a MINIMAL cost for storage spaces- like a maximum cap of 50kt per 5 spaces no matter how many you buy beyond the cap amount, with the first 5-10 spaces free, like with lairs- I would NEVER ever EVER use them.

I mean, isn't the fact you can't breed or coli them ENOUGH of a "penalty"? Why would you *also* want them to be unable to grow up/cooldown, or lose their RTB status, or pay a treasure fine, or have a time limit, or anything else- especially if you've ALREADY had to pay for the spaces themselves? I wouldn't have any reason to PUT them in storage unless I was both sorely lacking space for them AND waiting for them to grow, or cooldown, so this makes no sense to me at all. There's no penalty for storing things in your vault, why should there be one for basically, vaulting your dragons? Even if we got a ton of storage spaces absolutely free, I would still say NO PENALTIES, but with free spaces (and ONLY with free spaces), I'd at least be OK with not being able to change them, and maybe with them not growing/cooling down while IN storage as long as I could take them in & out as often as I wanted with absolutely no associated costs/penalties/losses, and they could be stored dressed/accented/familiared/etc. and I could still place them wherever I wanted in my lair. Having storage be expensive, or with penalties will just discourage people from using it, and that sure won't solve the lairspace problem!

And even if storage were all I dreamed of, I *STILL* would need more lair space, and LOTS of it, because I want more dragons! I have so many saved AH searches for beautiful dragons/breeding projects/mates I have no room for, and I would REALLY like to be able to display more than just a quarter of my skin & accent collection, something I have spent HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of gems on and THOUSANDS of dollars of IRL money on those gems...which is going to eventually trickle to a stop if I don't have new dragons to display them on.

Which reminds me, of the objections of people stating that players with enormous lairs will end up fabulously rich and blow the economy....Um, not really. Most items on here are NOT out of reach of less intense players- just look at the AH and all the junk apparel, familiars, and items. Fest stuff is abundant, most rare familiars go down in price over time, the marketplace restocks constantly, Swipp & Baldwin, and even coli drop items can *all* be gotten with enough patience, even food is overstocked. What, pray tell, is it exactly that the wealthy players are going to be spending all their dragon cash on to wreck the economy and throw everything out of proportion? 4g junk fams/apparel to throw in the Baldwin pot? Personally, I can't even come CLOSE to melting all the crap in my hoard no matter how much I melt, It just keeps getting replenished every time I open a chest or get coli drops.

Sure, there are rare & special items that the "rich" or power players go for, but those are things that haven't been in reach of casual players for a LOOOONG time. Many of them were out of reach even when I started in October 2014. What are they? The biggies would be g1/g2 Imps, low digit dragons, Imp scrolls, custom & rare accents, KS items, some first year items, nice g1s of any age. A lot of those things are *very* limited in number and have always tended to be the domain of specialized collectors, not casual players, and guess what? When the rich players who buy/collect/hoard those things get bored & leave because they've reached their lair caps, those G1 Imps, Gilded Crowns, Light Sprites, and so on are then stuck on dead accounts forever, never to be resold or circulated back into the game. So really, that lack of lair expansions is what's making the economy worse, and those rare items become even fewer & rarer & even MORE expensive.

And to me it's much harder to understand how people with small lairs have trouble keeping their lairs fed than I do actually keeping 200 dragons full up on energy. My daily gathering turns + a few days of coli a month (usually during fests, when my gathering turns all go to digging) is PLENTY to keep my dragons fed no matter what. I've come back from breaks with 150+ starving dragons, hardly any food reserves, and little money, and still managed to have them all fully fed quite quickly- I can hoardsell and put stuff on the AH for money to buy cheap food, use all my gathering turns for food, and hold off on feeding til I know I will have enough food points to energize my fighters, whereupon I can hit the coli & work the lower levels/fast & easy battles til I rack up a decent amount of food. When I did coli all the time, I had 10-15k points in each food category PLUS surpluses I could sell. I can't imagine it being any different if I had more dragons, except I'd have to coli more, because I hate spending my dragon cash on food instead of pretties! No casual players will be starved out because collectors can buy more spaces, food will not become scarce. If anything, we'll see more in the market, with more people ending up with surplus from being able to participate in dom.

When I started, I had the spaces for 100 dragons in *exactly* two months, and maxed it to 145 not long after...and it only took that long because I preferred to wait for Shadow to have Dom to purchase spaces for that sweet, sweet discount. And now I've hit a wall- I have to send dragons over to my husband when I want to hatch nests, my breeding projects are all on hold, I have 20+ dragons that need mates, and NO ROOM to do anything.
Lykos wrote on 2018-09-08 06:48:00:
Personally, I believe that capping players out due to food is kind of strange. Yes, it restricts players when they're doing Coli and breeding but there's a simple mechanic that can actually kill two birds with one stone:

It's probably more complex than it seems - I've done a bit of program coding and it can get complicated fast, especially with so many additional variables - but they could try to alleviate a food problem completely based on the amount of dragons in your lair OR slots. Whichever is preferred. This is just during gathering alone.

For example, I would be guaranteed to get (at minimum) enough food through gathering to feed my entire lair (since not everyone does Coli). This would scale depending on dragons or slots (again, whatever is easiest might be most helpful starting out). This food could, ofc, be set based on level and what I mean by this is that level could determine how many turns it'll take you to get enough food for your lair (so low level could mean less extra items but you're still getting extra) in addition to the item rarity and items you have access to.

As a lot of people complain about the congested levels later on when you get access to more stuff since % chance doesn't change, this kills that problem too. You're allowing ALL lairs to get what they need - even players that don't Coli - and fixing the problem you're using as an excuse (not saying it's not valid; it is) to not make slots unlimited. Permanently, at that.

Edit:
To clarify, gathering in one place could be guaranteed to give enough food to feed the dragons that eat it OR give enough to feed all the dragons even if they don't (which would just be extra anyway).
@Taarnfalk it would be good for exalting lairs. During a push week you could store all your permas except for your coli team and then fill up your lair with fodder to train, then pull out all your permas again. You could also store dragons when you're working on a specific breeding project, and switch between projects. I can see its benefits in a lot of different ways. But I also see your point about more lair space. Honestly both could work, they both have their uses.
@Taarnfalk it would be good for exalting lairs. During a push week you could store all your permas except for your coli team and then fill up your lair with fodder to train, then pull out all your permas again. You could also store dragons when you're working on a specific breeding project, and switch between projects. I can see its benefits in a lot of different ways. But I also see your point about more lair space. Honestly both could work, they both have their uses.
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I'd like to know what 'bigger load-outs in Coliseum' means?

With all the great familiars and gorgeous skins/accents/apparel that we keep getting (Don't stop!)I need more dragons to display this all! 200 is no longer enough...
I'd like to know what 'bigger load-outs in Coliseum' means?

With all the great familiars and gorgeous skins/accents/apparel that we keep getting (Don't stop!)I need more dragons to display this all! 200 is no longer enough...
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@ShadesofFantasy Dragon storage could work for some I agree :D Im just not one of them and I know there are many out there who now have put all their "lets buy dragons" on hold because we dont want to store our dragons in a storage....

It´s a sad day for many collectors :/
@ShadesofFantasy Dragon storage could work for some I agree :D Im just not one of them and I know there are many out there who now have put all their "lets buy dragons" on hold because we dont want to store our dragons in a storage....

It´s a sad day for many collectors :/
I like the idea of storage, personally. I don't mind the idea of more lair space, but not if it meant making the game unbalanced for those of us who prefer to have a more manageable number of dragons.
I like the idea of storage, personally. I don't mind the idea of more lair space, but not if it meant making the game unbalanced for those of us who prefer to have a more manageable number of dragons.
I don't know, I see your point, but the idea of having a place to store dragons seems like a great idea to me. Quite a few of my dragons aren't bred anymore, aren't used in the coliseum, and are simply kept for sentimental and lore purposes. If there was an option to store them someplace where they are still visible, but just out of the way to clear up lair space for other dragons and projects, I'd certainly use it, and it seems like people who collect old and gen one dragons would benefit the most from such a feature!

Perhaps it could just be a place to store them temporarily. While there, they can't be bred or be used in the coli, but you'd be able to free up much needed space, and as long as there's an option to place them back in your lair whenever you'd like, I don't see a downside.
I don't know, I see your point, but the idea of having a place to store dragons seems like a great idea to me. Quite a few of my dragons aren't bred anymore, aren't used in the coliseum, and are simply kept for sentimental and lore purposes. If there was an option to store them someplace where they are still visible, but just out of the way to clear up lair space for other dragons and projects, I'd certainly use it, and it seems like people who collect old and gen one dragons would benefit the most from such a feature!

Perhaps it could just be a place to store them temporarily. While there, they can't be bred or be used in the coli, but you'd be able to free up much needed space, and as long as there's an option to place them back in your lair whenever you'd like, I don't see a downside.
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I definitely want lairspace over storage. It’s getting more and more frustrating to have to get rid of old dragons, dragons I spent a long time breeding or searching for, or whatever, just to be able to have a dragon with the new genes. Not to mention all the time and monies spent training them to level 25 and geneing them. Dragons are the most fun part of this game, so it’s awful to have to sell or exalt what I've worked so hard on. It'll be even worse if they release a new breed.

And I'd have no difficulty feeding them or paying high prices to house them. I understand the coli loading issue, but maybe there can be a thing where dragons need to be in the first 200 slots (since it already loads 200) to be eligible for the coli. That way the game only has to load the first 200 dragons of any lair. It would be a pain, but better than having my dragons stuffed in some storage somewhere.

I'll be super disappointed if we never get any more lair expansion spaces.

EDIT - Upon further thought, I'd be okay with storage if it allowed us to still see many dragons per page and also be able to see the dragon and it’s bio like we can now on their individual page. I've been working on a CYOA with the dragons in my lair and if their bios were not readable in storage, then it would mess the whole thing up. I don't mind them not being breedable or not being able to go in the coli. Most of mine are level 25 already and many of the old ones I don't breed any more. (But I'd still like it to be easy to swap them out with not stored dragons if I did want to breed or train them.)
I definitely want lairspace over storage. It’s getting more and more frustrating to have to get rid of old dragons, dragons I spent a long time breeding or searching for, or whatever, just to be able to have a dragon with the new genes. Not to mention all the time and monies spent training them to level 25 and geneing them. Dragons are the most fun part of this game, so it’s awful to have to sell or exalt what I've worked so hard on. It'll be even worse if they release a new breed.

And I'd have no difficulty feeding them or paying high prices to house them. I understand the coli loading issue, but maybe there can be a thing where dragons need to be in the first 200 slots (since it already loads 200) to be eligible for the coli. That way the game only has to load the first 200 dragons of any lair. It would be a pain, but better than having my dragons stuffed in some storage somewhere.

I'll be super disappointed if we never get any more lair expansion spaces.

EDIT - Upon further thought, I'd be okay with storage if it allowed us to still see many dragons per page and also be able to see the dragon and it’s bio like we can now on their individual page. I've been working on a CYOA with the dragons in my lair and if their bios were not readable in storage, then it would mess the whole thing up. I don't mind them not being breedable or not being able to go in the coli. Most of mine are level 25 already and many of the old ones I don't breed any more. (But I'd still like it to be easy to swap them out with not stored dragons if I did want to breed or train them.)
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Wait what.

Where is this Dragon Storage news coming from?

Did I miss something?
Wait what.

Where is this Dragon Storage news coming from?

Did I miss something?
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[quote name="TimeStandStill" date=2018-02-06 12:25:58] Wait what. Where is this Dragon Storage news coming from? Did I miss something? [/quote] @TimeStandStill its in the new Q & A [quote]While the act of increasing the cap isn't difficult, it does go hand-in-hand with having more mouths to feed and maintain, and bigger load-outs in Coliseum. In addition, lair slots are quite pricey, and new lair spaces would have to be at least as expensive as the tiers below them. While we could just pile on more lair slots, that may not be the best route taken. We have, however, heard loud and clear that players want more dragon storage. That's something that we're thinking about, even if it ends up not being in the form of additional lair slots.[/quote] @BashfulBat I really dont want temporal storage for my dragons. I get why it would work for some but everything has it places in my lair. Every dragon is there for a reason. I want soo many more old dragons IN my lair. Not in a storage of some sort..
TimeStandStill wrote on 2018-02-06:
Wait what.

Where is this Dragon Storage news coming from?

Did I miss something?

@TimeStandStill its in the new Q & A
Quote:
While the act of increasing the cap isn't difficult, it does go hand-in-hand with having more mouths to feed and maintain, and bigger load-outs in Coliseum. In addition, lair slots are quite pricey, and new lair spaces would have to be at least as expensive as the tiers below them. While we could just pile on more lair slots, that may not be the best route taken.

We have, however, heard loud and clear that players want more dragon storage. That's something that we're thinking about, even if it ends up not being in the form of additional lair slots.

@BashfulBat I really dont want temporal storage for my dragons. I get why it would work for some but everything has it places in my lair. Every dragon is there for a reason. I want soo many more old dragons IN my lair. Not in a storage of some sort..
I don’t use lair space that common but i know the feeling when gen ones will need more space. They are a tone of combines that alot need to gather, plus big lairs are great for dom folders. The person will need alot of food if that the case. Or, add an another expansion in hopes prices will lower?


More the better!
I don’t use lair space that common but i know the feeling when gen ones will need more space. They are a tone of combines that alot need to gather, plus big lairs are great for dom folders. The person will need alot of food if that the case. Or, add an another expansion in hopes prices will lower?


More the better!
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