Suggestions

First of all, this is more of a discussion than a suggestions. I often see re-releasing threads, but they're generally all focused on sprites or sometimes KS stuff.

SECOND, this discussion is based on the idea of the FR staff re-releasing SOMETHING. There are plenty of arguments for never un-retiring items, but this discussion is not about if items should be un-retired or not - it's asking 'If staff were to re-release a retired item, would boolean be a good choice?'

If you think boolean would be a bad choice, maybe you could suggest what you think the staff should retire? My choice (boolean) is based on what would have the least impact, but others might want something more 'fair' (sprites?)

Please be civil to one another!

Ok now I wanted to out-line a couple reasons I've thought of, in favor of boolean being re-released over other items such as sprites and with a 'cons' list. Feel free to pick them apart.

The main contenders for 'way too rare should be re-released' are:

- Sprites
- KS familiars
- Downtime familiars
- Boolean

* The boolean is the rarest retired familiar. It would affect the smallest amount of people by being unretired, I don't know how many active accounts there are with booleans but I'm betting it's a lot less than sprites. Since they're so rare I doubt anybody buys them/hoards them to sell later.

* The boolean is really the only 'unachieveable' familiar. Sprites and downtime familiars aren't too badly priced, light sprite is the most expensive but not even that bad compared to KS familiars. KS familiars seem to go for 200kg at most, expensive but nowhere near the colossal price tag of a boolean. Booleans are up there with imperial scrolls, the last price I heard for one was 800kg pure. Not to mention impossible to find a seller. There's KS stuff being sold all the time and sprites/downtime on the AH. With enough saving you can feasibly get all sprites or all KS but not boolean.

* Boolean CAN be re-released, unlike KS familiars. I believe the KS familiars are in a contract with kickstarter, because it involved real money it'd be breaking contract to re-release them.

* There's an achievement tied to boolean, which annoys many people. Un-retiring them would appease the achievement hunters.

Cons:

- Some people would be upset because their booleans would lose value, this is unavoidable when unretiring items.

- Un-retiring the boolean may get people clamoring for the KS familiars to get released? Sprites have the excuse of being festival but boolean tends to get grouped with KS more than anything.

- The usual cons of un-retiring stuff. Since I'm doing a hypothetical compromise something has to be retired and of course the usual cons to that apply.

- It's a bit harder to think of how they should be re-released. With another testing (new coli?) to pay homage to the familiars original intentions? This would drop the value down to nothing. For people who find and report a bug? Could do the same thing, if it's based on who submitted the report first could lead to a lot of anger and frustration. Trickled very slowly back into the market somehow to keep it's value high?

No support. The achievement related to the boolean was because you literally had to do something helpful to the site itself to get on. While the achievement is technically "own a boolean," its pretty clear that the achievement itself is more along the lines of: "do the thing that we award booleans for."

That's pretty fair Trix, the achievement is a pretty small part of the suggestion. Honestly I'd prefer if they just removed the points awarded for it.

They allready rereleased it as a new familiar - one of the wasps of crystal pools.

The same arguments for or against re releasing retired items do count towards boolean too. There is no reason to discuss any 'special' treatments for booleans - since they too are just a retired item just like sprites and kickstarter.

People want them for their rareness. Otherwise we would not have this discussion about booleans (since as I mentioned familiars with similar designs are being released). Basically its a question of elitism. People want one to profit off of it or to be part of the club. Virtually no one that screams for the retired items wants them actually free for all (which I would have liked every item on this site to be).

Obligatory reminder that if it were not for the Kickstarter backers gambling their real-life money, none of us would be here. And correct me if I'm wrong, the only way to get into the Beta was the back the Kickstarter. So in a roundabout way, it is a Kickstarter item, and that's toeing the line a bit too close for my comfort.

I mean heck, even if beta wasn't a KS thing, the same principle applies. If the Beta testers did not take time out of their busy lives to bug-test this game, none of us would be here. (Or we would, and we'd be quietly dying inside because this place is crawling with bugs.) Beta testing isn't just about getting to play a game before everyone else does. It's hard work, recording everything. They deserve a reward.

You don't need a full achievements list or a full bestiary in order to enjoy the game.

Just say if you're not ok with me pinging you!

@Ismaiel Not exactly re-releasing, just making a new familiar. I did mention this has the usual cons of re-releasing items, it is not that boolean should get special treatment but when discussing un-retiring items people usually don't want every item re-released and some cannot be un-retired at all (KS). The discussion is so see if boolean would be a good candidate for re-release.

People want them for their rareness yes, but not just because of eliteness. I'd like one to complete the beastiary! I can feasible save up for sprites and KS but not boolean. Also, boolean looks a lot cooler than it's re-make.

Because Boolean is so un-obtainable, I wonder if it were released for free to everyone (which would TANK it's value) how many people would be happy vs how many upset. If the sprites value tanked because of re-release I imagine a lot more people would be upset because they;re more commonly hoarded for future selling.

Professionally, I am a software tester. I get paid $14.30 per hour to click through a program and see if things are broken, and make sure the right people know if things are broken. Granted, this also means that I actually see it in alpha phase, to clear out major things before Beta - because Beta testers aren't compensated in any way aside from getting first access to a broken product.

I think the biggest reason that people always clamber about the sprites is because the people who joined for the first festival didn't help the site in any way. They were just regular users doing regular stuff and they didn't earn special privileges just by knowing about FR before everyone else did, aside from being able to spend a longer time on the site that they enjoy. They got to have it first, that doesn't mean no one else should get to have it.

Conversely, Beta testers did give a big thing to the site by donating their time to make sure that the site worked. The Boolean was a gift to thank them for that, and anything short of doing something of equal value to FR should not have the same reward under any circumstances, imo, and it's a lot harder to help a fully established site with that level of meaningfulness than it is a new baby site. Like, if you don't feed a kid, that's a really bad thing because bad things will happen. If you don't feed an adult, they'll probably go get food themselves, so giving a kid food is helping in a big way, while giving an adult food is like, nice, but not really necessary.


EDIT: Also I really love discussing this stuff, so I'm totally good with you continuing the conversation, just as a note!! Please ping me if you do :)

As a collector across all the games I play, I still can never support something like this. Yes the Boolean is famed and extinct but it was a gift...Those who received it earned it. Everyone left over on this site who wasn't here to help bring it to being, don't deserve the same reward

For example, I have played World of Warcraft since release. I have achievements and items that will never again be obtainable. People on there don't complain about this at all lol. I for one would be perturbed if Haunted Mementos were given out at the next Hallows End, seeing I've had mine before the item got removed ^.^ same with a lottttt of pets / mounts in that game. Famed classic mounts never to be obtained again, certainly those owners don't want people getting them once again, it would lose value and meaning...That authentic epicness of the item.

This game is no different. Nobody will ever be able to normally obtain a Light Sprite again. Nobody will ever be able to obtain a Boolean, same with no one being able to obtain, say, the Zandalari Tiger Mount or the classic Hakkar kills in WoW. Retired items go to those who earned it at the time they were given out. While it is disappointing to probably never have a completed Bestiary, those that do have certainly earned it.

@Cealygosa
or were dumb like me and tossed them :( but my own mistake. I remember trying for the tiger before it was retired. I never did get it to drop but I am okay with it and love to see when people use it.


Boolean's are the same . I decided not to try and get into FR initially. I missed out, but I love seeing one on someone's dragon when I am admiring lairs.

I think that Kickstarter and Beta familiars shouldn't have bestiary entries associated with them (or, say, be in their own separate golden bestiary or something), and also should not give achievement points. The reward is the item, isn't it?

I don't consider holiday items of the same caliber of items as the Boolean, Kickstarters, and downtimes because holiday items just confuse me.

So of the categories Kickstarter, Boolean, and downtime familiars, I guess I think that downtime familiars seem the most fair to rerelease. We do have downtimes these days, but they don't have items associated with them. They are announced downtimes, so I can see an argument that they're different. But they're still downtimes...

I do think that if they released some huge feature in the future and needed beta-testers for that, and if it was closed, it wouldn't be unfair to give the Boolean as a reward for that? I have no idea, just throwing that out there. Because I do think that Booleans as a reward for these testing services is perfectly acceptable.