Suggestions

[quote name= @Jemadar date=2017-07-03 12:44:48] [quote name="CryLikeAWolf" date=2017-07-03 12:38:38] Lots of support. This would be nice, as long as the proper gender characteristics are put into the new poses (like if you changed the pose of a male imp, the beard would be a part of the opposing pose) [/quote] Actually, this suggestion wouldn't require any new art at all, which is one of the points of this. If you pose changed a male imp to a female imp, it would simply use the pose of the female imp. No characteristics of male imps at all. There are many people who simply don't like the pose of one sex. I don't really like the male tundra pose, and prefer the female tundra pose. I prefer the female RB pose over the Male Pose, and I would hate it for male RB characteristics to appear on pose changed dragon because that is most likely why I posed changed it, to get rid of those characteristics. [/quote] That makes sense actually. I never thought about that aspect- and it does make sense. [s]THough I must admit I am curious what a female imp pose with a beard would look like[/s]

@CrylikeaWolf

I have an image in my head, I can almost identify it, but I am pretty sure I saw an image somewhere, of a dragon or something in a pose almost like a female imp, with a beard flowing out behind... but I can't quite get it. But it would be interesting.

but, yeah, one pro of this is that it wouldn't actually need any more art drawn, which could slow down new breeds.

(though if you look in my signature about hybrids, I have a breed characteristic apparel thread, this idea could fit in there as well, as an imperial beard could be a characteristic that might be nice to have for other breeds)

@Rebdomine On the flip side, one could say a sex-change scroll encourages the thought that trans people aren't really trans until they've had surgery. While my reasons for the suggestion include the potential for lore, I've specifically suggested that trans imagery (like a butterfly) not be involved at all, and for the change to be entirely cosmetic-based with no specific reference to trans or gay people. But also: What you fear already happens. When it comes to trans dragons, two camps exist on this site: One that makes F dragons trans men and M dragons trans women, and one that makes F dragons trans women and M dragons trans men. Neither camp is "wrong", but it sounds as if you might find one camp uncomfortable. That would not change with this scroll; it would only be more visible. I acknowledge that this scroll could encourage a few people's misconceptions regarding trans people. However, if implemented as suggested, it wouldn't be marketed as a sex-change scroll or trans-related at all. Any relation to trans people would be tangential. I can't foresee any political hot water for saying "if you want, you can pay $5 to use a different image of your dragon!" Trans dragons are just a lore benefit of such a scroll, not the entire basis by any means. Most of the disagreement with this suggestion boils down to "This is unnecessary" or "No, this defeats part of the point of breeding for what you want." A few "I don't want trans or gay dragons." I'll back up what @Dreamnorn said: I can't recall a single person saying that this would be bad for any LGBT+ people. [quote]all transgender people are either transitioned, transitioning, or desire to transition[/quote] Should not pre-, mid-, and non-transitioning trans people be acknowledged? It's nice to have an ideal, but some of us--due to financial reasons, social reasons, or otherwise--cannot or do not want to meet an ideal. The ideal does not need to be the sole image presented to the world. The fact is that trans people can have biological children through the typical methods, and I don't think that treating those people as outliers (or fakes, or as a poor image for the community) is necessary. Most of the dragons' function on the site is breeding. Yet people do not take this as an excuse to reduce all cis women down to "people who can get pregnant" and cis men down to "people who can father children". So I think it puts very little faith in people to assume that they will do this to trans people just because of a pose-swap scroll. Besides which, again, it's not a purely trans-based suggestion. If I want my two gay dragons to look like a same sex couple (and for people to assume they're the same gender on sight) and also have hatchlings in their lineage, through whatever magical shenanigans they can do, then I will want to use such a scroll. If I want an M/F pair with a feminine M or masculine F, this scroll would suit me. If I want a pair that's wearing the exact same accent, this scroll would also suit me. Also, male Skydancers. I can't stand the pose at all, but I want Skydancer pairs. That's the other 50% of why I suggested this scroll.

I completely support this! Our lil dragon friends need more LGBTQ representation, and this seems like the best way to do it.

This certainly has my support. Not gonna give a great big long box of text about this, as in all honesty everyone's probably already beaten the dead horses for me, but this is certainly a feature I'd like to see on the site.

I strongly support this! I am still a bit worried about the AH however. It would suck to have to waste your 500 gems if you had to change them back to sell them but I also know I space out and buy hatchlings of the wrong gender all the time so something more than an extra symbol would have to be on them to indicate it. Maybe like a yellow square around the dragons picture in the listing or something so it's noticeable but not obnoxious

Support! This is certainly a lot better than the gender change scroll idea! And the idea of not being able to sell/exalt these is great too.

Support! Selfishly I support this because 9 times out of 10, I prefer the male pose on a dragon rather than the female one. But I also support this as a trans person who is very interested in lore because this would open up so many more possibilities imo.

I think for how selling/exalting could go for these dragons should be similar / about the same as eternal youth dragons. Any dragon that the scroll has been applied to should have a small symbol next to them, like perma babies do, but should still be able to be sold in the AH and exalted. As long as the symbol next to the dragon is noticeable enough, there really shouldn't be any confusion.