@
Xionahri If you want a singular pronoun that's not he/him or she/her and honestly, I'm not a fan of using "it" unless you want to dehumanize the robot but even then, humans around various inanimate objects tend to assign pronouns to them (so many cars and boats that people talk about as though they are women).
Anyways, in terms of other pronouns that you could use, there's
Spivak pronouns which, with some variation, are like they/them, but singular and dropping the "th" to be ey/em. There's history for these pronoun sets being used back 30-45 years.
@
Xionahri If you want a singular pronoun that's not he/him or she/her and honestly, I'm not a fan of using "it" unless you want to dehumanize the robot but even then, humans around various inanimate objects tend to assign pronouns to them (so many cars and boats that people talk about as though they are women).
Anyways, in terms of other pronouns that you could use, there's
Spivak pronouns which, with some variation, are like they/them, but singular and dropping the "th" to be ey/em. There's history for these pronoun sets being used back 30-45 years.
I think "it" would be fine if you're writing from the robot's pov, as the robot could think of itself as an "it" & it wouldn't come across as depersonalising, imo. Or you could go a step further and have the robot refer to itself, other robots, and organic beings as "it", assuming it's a robot that isn't programmed to interact with humans & therefore wouldn't be programmed to have an understanding of sex and/or gender.
"Them" could work if your robot consists of multiple runtimes, like the Geth from Mass Effect.
[quote name="Greyjoy" date="2019-10-07 07:14:15" ]
A lot of issues people have with this come with 'dehumanisation' and that can be a tripping point with science fiction.
[snip]
When dealing with robots in particular, be wary about anthropomorphising them too much. Adding overly-human values to non-humans is an easy trap to fall into.
[/quote]
This is really good advice, and not just for inorganic beings. Ask yourself this: why would, say, a giant lizard, an alien, or a robot subscribe to human beliefs, morality systems, etc?
I think "it" would be fine if you're writing from the robot's pov, as the robot could think of itself as an "it" & it wouldn't come across as depersonalising, imo. Or you could go a step further and have the robot refer to itself, other robots, and organic beings as "it", assuming it's a robot that isn't programmed to interact with humans & therefore wouldn't be programmed to have an understanding of sex and/or gender.
"Them" could work if your robot consists of multiple runtimes, like the Geth from Mass Effect.
Greyjoy wrote on 2019-10-07 07:14:15:
A lot of issues people have with this come with 'dehumanisation' and that can be a tripping point with science fiction.
[snip]
When dealing with robots in particular, be wary about anthropomorphising them too much. Adding overly-human values to non-humans is an easy trap to fall into.
This is really good advice, and not just for inorganic beings. Ask yourself this: why would, say, a giant lizard, an alien, or a robot subscribe to human beliefs, morality systems, etc?
[quote name="Seadramon" date="2019-10-07 19:26:42" ]
[snip]
[quote name="Greyjoy" date="2019-10-07 07:14:15" ]
A lot of issues people have with this come with 'dehumanisation' and that can be a tripping point with science fiction.
[snip]
When dealing with robots in particular, be wary about anthropomorphising them too much. Adding overly-human values to non-humans is an easy trap to fall into.
[/quote]
This is really good advice, and not just for inorganic beings. Ask yourself this: why would, say, a giant lizard, an alien, or a robot subscribe to human beliefs, morality systems, etc?
[/quote]
I don't know if I necessarily agree with this per-se. It brings up a good point, for sure, and I would definitely agree that aliens need not subscribe to human morality systems. But it depends on what is appropriate for the story.
A lot of works featuring sentient robots is framed around the question of "what makes us human", and where the humanity of the robots makes the question harder to answer. If it acts like a human and has the same morality as a human ... how do we treat it? Is it okay to treat it like a second-class citizen, or like a tool to be used, instead of a person with their own agency?
If that's the angle your story is going for, perhaps other characters in the story could use it/its to refer to the robot, whereas the robot uses they/them to reference themself.
I really, really think the answer to the question OP poses depends on the context of the robot's character arc, and the purpose the robot character serves in the story. It's impossible to give advice which applies to every story involving intelligent robots, after all.
[size=2]As a side note for nonbinary folk it's a tricky question too, because on the one hand referring to robots and aliens as "they/them" has the unfortunate implication of "nonbinary people are weird aliens compared to us normal humans", casting nonbinary people as the other group. On the other hand the handful of nonbinary people I know would, in fact, rather be weird aliens than boring humans, so ...[/size]
Seadramon wrote on 2019-10-07 19:26:42:
[snip]
Greyjoy wrote on 2019-10-07 07:14:15:
A lot of issues people have with this come with 'dehumanisation' and that can be a tripping point with science fiction.
[snip]
When dealing with robots in particular, be wary about anthropomorphising them too much. Adding overly-human values to non-humans is an easy trap to fall into.
This is really good advice, and not just for inorganic beings. Ask yourself this: why would, say, a giant lizard, an alien, or a robot subscribe to human beliefs, morality systems, etc?
I don't know if I necessarily agree with this per-se. It brings up a good point, for sure, and I would definitely agree that aliens need not subscribe to human morality systems. But it depends on what is appropriate for the story.
A lot of works featuring sentient robots is framed around the question of "what makes us human", and where the humanity of the robots makes the question harder to answer. If it acts like a human and has the same morality as a human ... how do we treat it? Is it okay to treat it like a second-class citizen, or like a tool to be used, instead of a person with their own agency?
If that's the angle your story is going for, perhaps other characters in the story could use it/its to refer to the robot, whereas the robot uses they/them to reference themself.
I really, really think the answer to the question OP poses depends on the context of the robot's character arc, and the purpose the robot character serves in the story. It's impossible to give advice which applies to every story involving intelligent robots, after all.
As a side note for nonbinary folk it's a tricky question too, because on the one hand referring to robots and aliens as "they/them" has the unfortunate implication of "nonbinary people are weird aliens compared to us normal humans", casting nonbinary people as the other group. On the other hand the handful of nonbinary people I know would, in fact, rather be weird aliens than boring humans, so ...
Let our wings fill the sky
[quote name="Vrachos" date="2019-10-07 20:13:59" ]
[size=2]As a side note for nonbinary folk it's a tricky question too, because on the one hand referring to robots and aliens as "they/them" has the unfortunate implication of "nonbinary people are weird aliens compared to us normal humans", casting nonbinary people as the other group. On the other hand the handful of nonbinary people I know would, in fact, rather be weird aliens than boring humans, so ...[/size]
[/quote]
*Whispers*
Did you summon me? I'd like to be a weird alien.
I'd also like to point out that it also depends on programming and language. The tricky problem with us humans is that we haven't really been able to communicate with intelligent animals that well, so we haven't been able to ask their opinions on the subject. Just as much as it is possible they don't care about gender it's possible that they[i] do [/i]have pronouns and their own view on gender/sex and whatnot. It depends on what you're writing about, especially with story context and character purple in mine. My dragons, for example, have a very different view on sexuality and gender identity, and many can biologically change sex as well. A lot of them are agender or genderfluidor genderqueer or etc. and don't really care, but there's also dragons that [i]do [/i]care and request to be respected as such. It just depends. *shrugs*
EDIT: There's also other pronouns, such as xe/xir, which I occasionally use!
Vrachos wrote on 2019-10-07 20:13:59:
As a side note for nonbinary folk it's a tricky question too, because on the one hand referring to robots and aliens as "they/them" has the unfortunate implication of "nonbinary people are weird aliens compared to us normal humans", casting nonbinary people as the other group. On the other hand the handful of nonbinary people I know would, in fact, rather be weird aliens than boring humans, so ...
*Whispers*
Did you summon me? I'd like to be a weird alien.
I'd also like to point out that it also depends on programming and language. The tricky problem with us humans is that we haven't really been able to communicate with intelligent animals that well, so we haven't been able to ask their opinions on the subject. Just as much as it is possible they don't care about gender it's possible that they
do have pronouns and their own view on gender/sex and whatnot. It depends on what you're writing about, especially with story context and character purple in mine. My dragons, for example, have a very different view on sexuality and gender identity, and many can biologically change sex as well. A lot of them are agender or genderfluidor genderqueer or etc. and don't really care, but there's also dragons that
do care and request to be respected as such. It just depends. *shrugs*
EDIT: There's also other pronouns, such as xe/xir, which I occasionally use!
Call me Requacy (Pinging Allowed!)(Note to self: Make art for signature)
[quote name="LoversMasque" date="2019-10-07 16:59:06" ]
Go crazy with Tumblr pronouns and genders. Have it identify as xe/xir/xem, or mec/mecha/mechaself or whatever. Make up your own gender, coward.
[/quote]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/s0xai7b.png[/img]
[color=#2f4719]Gonna agree with this suggestion, I think having OCs that use neopronouns is fun and it could be useful if they/them or it/its are confusing[/color]
LoversMasque wrote on 2019-10-07 16:59:06:
Go crazy with Tumblr pronouns and genders. Have it identify as xe/xir/xem, or mec/mecha/mechaself or whatever. Make up your own gender, coward.
Gonna agree with this suggestion, I think having OCs that use neopronouns is fun and it could be useful if they/them or it/its are confusing
As an agender person who strongly identifies with robots in media especially, I think you should either go with "they" or some neopronoun like "xe." I've seen some people use "it" successfully but honestly very, very few. I've only ever seen it work for robots or AI that either aren't really sentient or don't do much aside from follow what they were made to do despite being sentient or pretty close to. However if you explain that your robot CHOSE "it" pronouns and that's what they want then it would work :)
As an agender person who strongly identifies with robots in media especially, I think you should either go with "they" or some neopronoun like "xe." I've seen some people use "it" successfully but honestly very, very few. I've only ever seen it work for robots or AI that either aren't really sentient or don't do much aside from follow what they were made to do despite being sentient or pretty close to. However if you explain that your robot CHOSE "it" pronouns and that's what they want then it would work :)
[quote name="LoversMasque" date="2019-10-07 16:59:06" ]
Go crazy with Tumblr pronouns and genders. Have it identify as xe/xir/xem, or mec/mecha/mechaself or whatever. Make up your own gender, coward.
[/quote]
This post made my life a bit better
Otherwise I'd use "It".
LoversMasque wrote on 2019-10-07 16:59:06:
Go crazy with Tumblr pronouns and genders. Have it identify as xe/xir/xem, or mec/mecha/mechaself or whatever. Make up your own gender, coward.
This post made my life a bit better
Otherwise I'd use "It".
[quote name="Seadramon" date="2019-10-07 19:26:42" ]
I think "it" would be fine if you're writing from the robot's pov, as the robot could think of itself as an "it" & it wouldn't come across as depersonalising, imo. Or you could go a step further and have the robot refer to itself, other robots, and organic beings as "it", assuming it's a robot that isn't programmed to interact with humans & therefore wouldn't be programmed to have an understanding of sex and/or gender.
"Them" could work if your robot consists of multiple runtimes, like the Geth from Mass Effect.
[quote name="Greyjoy" date="2019-10-07 07:14:15" ]
A lot of issues people have with this come with 'dehumanisation' and that can be a tripping point with science fiction.
[snip]
When dealing with robots in particular, be wary about anthropomorphising them too much. Adding overly-human values to non-humans is an easy trap to fall into.
[/quote]
This is really good advice, and not just for inorganic beings. Ask yourself this: why would, say, a giant lizard, an alien, or a robot subscribe to human beliefs, morality systems, etc?
[/quote]
Not SUPER on topic but I respectfully disagree with the second part of this. Make nonhumans act human if you want, or not, it's up to you. There is NOTHING inherently wrong with giving them the same moral compass or human like minds. I'd personally be wary about using too human language about their physical form (can they smile? Do they blink, have hands, get itchy, all those little things humans can do but others maybe can't). But mental stuff? Go ham, create them however you want to :)
Seadramon wrote on 2019-10-07 19:26:42:
I think "it" would be fine if you're writing from the robot's pov, as the robot could think of itself as an "it" & it wouldn't come across as depersonalising, imo. Or you could go a step further and have the robot refer to itself, other robots, and organic beings as "it", assuming it's a robot that isn't programmed to interact with humans & therefore wouldn't be programmed to have an understanding of sex and/or gender.
"Them" could work if your robot consists of multiple runtimes, like the Geth from Mass Effect.
Greyjoy wrote on 2019-10-07 07:14:15:
A lot of issues people have with this come with 'dehumanisation' and that can be a tripping point with science fiction.
[snip]
When dealing with robots in particular, be wary about anthropomorphising them too much. Adding overly-human values to non-humans is an easy trap to fall into.
This is really good advice, and not just for inorganic beings. Ask yourself this: why would, say, a giant lizard, an alien, or a robot subscribe to human beliefs, morality systems, etc?
Not SUPER on topic but I respectfully disagree with the second part of this. Make nonhumans act human if you want, or not, it's up to you. There is NOTHING inherently wrong with giving them the same moral compass or human like minds. I'd personally be wary about using too human language about their physical form (can they smile? Do they blink, have hands, get itchy, all those little things humans can do but others maybe can't). But mental stuff? Go ham, create them however you want to :)
I didn't think I'd kick off such a huge discussion, but... *eats popcorn*
It's very interesting. Thank you guys for all the ideas you're bringing into this.
Don't worry, I'll respond to each one of you later, likely tomorrow. Am not feeling that well today, so I'll leave the actual responses to a time I have a bit more energy. Excuses, excuses, I know. Still, thank you.
I didn't think I'd kick off such a huge discussion, but... *eats popcorn*
It's very interesting. Thank you guys for all the ideas you're bringing into this.
Don't worry, I'll respond to each one of you later, likely tomorrow. Am not feeling that well today, so I'll leave the actual responses to a time I have a bit more energy. Excuses, excuses, I know. Still, thank you.
. she/her . 
Blue // they/he 
FR +9 
G1 collector 
