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@Sylvandyr

Thank you for the turn order! My trainer has 66 QCK for that Haste turn (link): there is practically no difference when you fight against Shatterbone Vulture - Tatterwing Carcass packs, but the extra turn at the beginning could be important in finishing the battle sooner / getting less hits from the bosses.


Tatterwing Carcass - Shatterbone Vulture - Tatterwing Carcass

66 QCK (15 turns, 6 hits)

1 Dragon: Haste
2 Dragon: Scratch TC 1
3 Dragon: Scratch TC 1
4 Dragon: Scratch TC 1
5 Tatterwing Carcass 1
6 Shatterbone Vulture
7 Tatterwing Carcass 2

8 Dragon: Scratch KO TC 1
9 Dragon: Scratch SV
10 Tatterwing Carcass 2
11 Shatterbone Vulture

12 Dragon: Eliminate KO SV
13 Dragon: Scratch TC 2
14 Tatterwing Carcass

15 Dragon: Eliminate KO TC 2


65 QCK (15 turns, 6 hits)

1 Dragon
2 Dragon
3 Dragon
4 Tatterwing Carcass 1
5 Shatterbone Vulture
6 Tatterwing Carcass 2

7 Dragon
8 Dragon
9 Tatterwing Carcass 1
10 Tatterwing Carcass 2

11 Dragon
12 Dragon
13 Tatterwing Carcass 2

14 Dragon
15 Dragon


Malevolent Spirit

66 QCK, 1490/1490 health, 56/120 breath
I have to use Haste as soon as it falls, because I immediately lose the second turn against the boss.

1 Haste
2 Rally
3 Rally Eliminate
4 Rally Scratch
5 Malevolent Spirit: Scratch -> KO Fodder

6 Rally Eliminate (crit)
7 Rally Scratch
8 Malevolent Spirit: Scratch

9 Haste
10 Rally
11 Malevolent Spirit: Scratch

12 Rally Scratch (crit)
13 Rally Scratch
14 Malevolent Spirit: Jungle Slash

15 Rally Scratch
16 Rally Eliminate -> KO Malevolent Spirit

@Maki Thanks for the turn order! Do you think you could get one from 0 Breath full health with no crits and lv1 fodder? I started getting those for all the different methods to compare. From what I saw, the different turn order at the beginning resulted in the same turns taken by the end, since the boss can’t be killed soon enough. See Method 6 - I got a QCK captcha buff, which gave me ceiling(65 * 1.05) = 69 QCK. I compared this to the 65 QCK version. [EDIT]: Actually, hold off on checking this, I ran through this morning and the numbers don't look right unless I missed recording a crit. The boss shouldn't have been KOed in my sample with the skill casts that happened. I'll retake that ASAP.

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Do you happen to have ~70 QCK dragons? I might try to test higher QCK again in case it gives extra turns. At the moment, unless I get lucky crits or my fodder can take 2+ hits, KOing the boss from full health has been hard if I start with 0 breath. I barely don’t get enough if I don’t crit and fodder gets OHKOed. It’s different if they take more hits, pretty easy to KO the boss then.

70 QCK might cause too much health loss though. 66 may be as high as it should be if there’s an improvement over 65.

@Sylvandyr

It's difficult to defeat the Disoriented Spirit starting at 0 breath, even if you have full health, since you need 10x Rally Scratch + 2x Rally Eliminate, which means the boss will get 7 hits. You can survive 5 Scratches (5x263=1315), but not 4 Scratches, Shred and bleed.

I have a Nature trainer, so the Malevolent Spirit would be easier to defeat, since Jungle Slash deals only 163 damage.


Dragon (1490/1490, 0/120, 66 QCK)
Fodder 1 (190/190, Level 1, 5 QCK)
Fodder 2 (190/190, Level 1, 5 QCK)

Disoriented Spirit

1 Haste
2 Rally
3 Rally Scratch
4 Rally Scratch
5 Disoriented Spirit: Scratch KO Fodder 1

6 Rally Scratch
7 Rally Scratch
8 Disoriented Spirit: Scratch KO Fodder 2

9 Haste
10 Rally
11 Disoriented Spirit: Shred

12 Rally Eliminate
13 Rally Scratch
14 Disoriented Spirit: Scratch

15 Rally Scratch
16 Rally Scratch
17 Disoriented Spirit: Scratch

18 Haste
19 Rally
20 Disoriented Spirit: Scratch

21 Rally Eliminate
22 Rally Scratch
23 Disoriented Spirit: Scratch KO dragon


Malevolent Spirit

1 Haste
2 Rally
3 Rally Scratch
4 Rally Scratch
5 Malevolent Spirit: Scratch KO Fodder 2

6 Rally Scratch (Malevolent Spirit dodges)
7 Rally Scratch
8 Malevolent Spirit: Scratch crit dragon

9 Haste
10 Rally
11 Malevolent Spirit: Scratch dragon

12 Rally Eliminate
13 Rally Scratch
14 Malevolent Spirit: Scratch KO Fodder 1

15 Rally Scratch
16 Rally Scratch
17 Malevolent Spirit: Scratch dragon

18 Haste
19 Rally
20 Malevolent Spirit: Jungle Slash dragon

21 Rally Eliminate
22 Rally Scratch
23 Malevolent Spirit: Scratch dragon

24 Rally Scratch
25 Rally Scratch
26 Malevolent Spirit: Jungle Slash KO dragon

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So you need 25 turns to defeat the bosses:

1 Haste
2 Rally
3 Rally Scratch
4 Rally Scratch
5 Boss: Scratch KO Fodder 1

6 Rally Scratch
7 Rally Scratch
8 Boss: Scratch KO Fodder 2

9 Haste
10 Rally
11 Boss: Scratch

12 Rally Eliminate
13 Rally Scratch
14 Boss: Scratch

15 Rally Scratch
16 Rally Scratch
17 Boss: Scratch

18 Haste
19 Rally
20 Boss: Scratch

21 Rally Eliminate
22 Rally Scratch
23 Boss: Scratch

24 Rally Scratch
25 Rally Scratch KO boss


I have only my 74 QCK Harpy's Roost trainer, but I also think a higher QCK will cause too much health loss.

@Maki Thank you! Yeah, Shred is mean. The Malevolent Spirit is also nice when it uses Envenom, which can even fail to KO fodder. I've been using Water (for the Aer Phantoms), but I'm thinking of making a Nature one for when I feel like dealing with bosses too.

I've been considering putting Shred instead of Sap for bosses, but Sap is nice on the Scratch trainer in non-boss situations. Have you tried Shred?

To bosses, these are the Breath-per-damage numbers:

Rallied Eliminate: 1655 damage, which is 1655/35 ~=47.286 damage per Breath.
Rallied Shred: 544 damage + 3 * 181 Bleed damage, which is (544 + 3 * 181) / 10 ~= 108.7 damage per Breath.

Of course, that's with full Shred ticks, but weaving in a few Shreds to keep up the bleed might help to put in the difference. Might be interesting. You'd basically do one Eliminate and replace the second one with three Shreds, scattered across the turns. (I think you can get enough Breath for a fourth, not full ticks, but it becomes a "strong Scratch".)

Hm, but the boss only gets ~8 turns total. The third and fourth Shreds would definitely have some wasted bleed damage. That said, even without the bleed, 544/10 is 54.4 damage per Breath, higher than Eliminate. The impact would be true even with crits. Might be worth a shot.

BUG FOUND: Tool says 181 damage from Shred bleed, but only 179 damage ticks on the Malevolent Spirit. Probably some rounding error. Need to fix it.

@Maki Sorry for the double ping. I got some trials using the same method against Malevolent Spirit, and from what you've written for 66 QCK, it looks like 66 QCK gets the important 25th turn before the boss, whereas 65 QCK does not.

I tried on 65 QCK, both with using Haste as soon as it falls off, or Haste after Rally falls off. Since as you pointed out the 66 QCK gets an early turn as well, if you've got extra Breath built up, it's also possible to end the fight sooner if you get lucky with crits. It looks like there's significance even without the crits for the 100% health and 0 Breath case, so it's not luck-reliant either.

I'm going to try out a 66 QCK Nature dragon. Thank you :)

37 VIT / 10 DEF

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65 QCK:

1 Haste
2 Rally
3 Rally Scratch
4 Boss: Scratch KO Fodder 1
5 Rally Scratch

6 Rally Scratch
7 Boss: Scratch KO Fodder 2
8 Rally Scratch

9 Haste
10 Boss: Scratch
11 Rally

12 Rally Scratch
13 Boss: Scratch
14 Rally Scratch

15 Rally Scratch
16 Boss: Scratch
17 Rally Scratch

18 Haste
19 Boss: Scratch
20 Rally

21 Rally Eliminate
22 Boss: Scratch
23 Rally Scratch

24 Rally Scratch
25 Boss: Scratch
26 Rally Eliminate KO boss

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I got the exact same order as your listed turns with 66 QCK using 2x SD (9 QCK) fodder.

66 QCK:

1 Haste
2 Rally
3 Rally Scratch
4 Rally Scratch
5 Boss: Scratch KO Fodder 2

6 Rally Scratch
7 Rally Scratch
8 Boss: Scratch

9 Haste
10 Rally
11 Boss: Scratch KO Fodder 1

12 Rally Scratch
13 Rally Scratch
14 Boss: Scratch

15 Rally Scratch (Crit; will offset later)
16 Rally Eliminate
17 Boss: Scratch

18 Haste
19 Rally
20 Boss: Scratch

21 Rally Scratch (Crit; will offset later)
22 Rally Scratch (Offset 1 of 2 Crits)
23 Boss: Scratch

24 Rally Scratch (Offset 1 of 2 Crits)
25 Rally Eliminate KO boss

Although I left Eliminate till last in this example, if fighting a boss in the startup round, it's probably better to Eliminate sooner instead of being greedy about saving Breath. This allows potential Crit luck. Boss startup rounds nearly KO the trainer anyway, so a reset would be imminent and trying to get lucky to end the battle sooner is safer.

Story might be different if starting with multiple Eliminate Breaths built up. In that case, it may be ok to make sure that the last Eliminate KOs the boss, but in those scenarios there might be missing health too.

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Next up: Trying Shred.

For full health / 0 breath startup battle against the boss, a Shred-only strategy sounded Breath-efficient on paper, but it turned out not to be great. You get 7 Scratch, 7 Shred, 8 bleed ticks but this requires 28 turns noncrit to KO the boss. (You only get Breath for the final Shred on the 28th turn, and it also ends up being overkill damage.)

7 * 539 + 6 * 544 + 8 * 179 does full damage. The last Shred could be a Scratch with the same effect, since at that point the boss only has 8690 - 8469 = 221 health left. So you could do 7 Scratch, 7 Shred, 8 bleed ticks, or 8 Scratch, 6 Shred, 8 bleed ticks.

Turns are wasted because you're essentially only spending 60 Breath instead of the 70 generated from the Scratches and Haste/Rally.

With a Scratch + Eliminate strategy, you go for 10 Scratches and 2 Eliminates. The damage output from the Rallied Eliminate is fast enough to utilize 70 Breath within less turns, which makes it better for KOing the boss.

This makes me prefer Sap on the GLR Scratch dragon, as Shred doesn't have a use on the boss.

@Maki @Sylvandyr

I have been enthusiastically following this thread with the new builds based on coli 2.0 setup. I have been running my *new* Mire Flyer - tinctured and set to 119 STR, 64 QCK, 30 VIT, extra point for 6 DEF. Enjoying the much more durable build.

I had been experimenting going with builds with high enough QCK to get 2 or 3 turns per round, Albbianco - set up as a support/stun mage with meditate or a true support dragon - Rakta that runs guard/anticipate rally/haste/heal and has no offensive capability. After my own test drives and some by other FR members, I sidelined the project as the net affect was to drag out battles and make an uneven flow of battle as the faster dragon ends up having turns to kill while waiting for the fighters to attack. Unlike the GW farming team with the mage using the same 40 QCK and the smoother flow of turn order.

I still have 75 and 76 Qck set of water dragons and a 70 Qck nature dragon for GLR if they would save you tinctures. Just message me to borrow them for the experiments.

Looking forward to more results.

@Sceptre Looks like my Underscore cdn is broken for some reason, sorry about that. Some of the external packages seem to be causing a javascript error due to not loading as expected. I'll work on a fix. Thanks for letting me know!