Flight Rising Discussion

[quote name="ThirdRoulette" date="2018-06-14 08:27:14" ] [quote name="SilverOtter" date="2018-06-14 08:12:16" ] I am not sure where the refund idea came from; however, I do not agree you should get one. You made the decision to purchase gems with real money. You made the decision to use those gems to buy scattersight vials. Why should you feel entitled enough to ask for a refund? Refunds don't work that way either. Are you going to ask the people who got your gems for purchasing their vials to give you your gems back? You bought it from them. Most places I ever get a refund from, I have to give the item back. If you don't have the gems or vials anymore, why should FR give you a refund back? I do not understand this sentiment at all. But, other than that, I loved the update with the eyes. I was so excited. I even tried to verify the admins actions; however, I agree that we should have the eyes a bit more readily available for the customization aspect of it. I do believe we should have a sort of fair chance to get them for some of the dragons we want them on. I'd love Primal Arcane for Erik my Arcane Rep who oozes Archaic magic. Really. But do I want a refund for the gems I spent? On anything? No. No I do not. [/quote] I haven't bought gems since I'm broke, but I agree with this post. If you made the choice to buy gems for the chance of getting your desired eyes, then that is [i]your choice.[/i] You can't say the staff forced you to buy gems, especially since there's other ways to earn gems without purchasing them. I believe that the decision to retire Scattersights wasn't a very good one. Yes, the event was a blunder, and even now, players are still stressed because Scattersight prices are just going to rise. But that is no reason to ask for a refund. You are ultimately gambling when you buy a Scattersight. Casinos aren't going to return your money just because you lost the gamble. [/quote] I’d seen refunds mentioned again and again on both main posts, or people mentioning that they spent real cold money on the update only for it to blow up in their face. So it’s less that I think everyone deserves a refund (I didn’t spend a cent so I’m not biased on this matter) but the fact that when a mess up happens this big, the main thing you have to focus on is the money aspect. Nothing will get messier, faster, than people thinking they were scammed out of RL money. So whether refunds happen or not, the fact that RL money has been lost on this endeavor should be addressed from a PR and business standpoint. Since the scattersight vials were advertised much like an existing site mechanism (scatterscrolls) but has an entirely different intention and chance rate- I can see where people feel cheated and misinformed.

Guys. If you keep debating over whether or not people deserve refunds or this 'gambling' aspect of the Scattervials, you're going to bury the other issues on the thread that need fixing and the staff could very well take it as us having moved on from our original complaints, which would mean, to them, that they don't have to do anything to address the previously mentioned issues.

I agree that this is a minor issue on our part. And I agree that there are bigger problems at the moment. So, my last point is, we had options for free vials. So, there were plenty of chances to know that these were not like the tri-scatterscrolls.

But, other than that, I believe that the vials shouldn't have been retired. And I think they need tweaked either way retired or not.

I don't feel the gambling/lootbox comparison is an apt one because the price of the scattervials was entirely set by and controlled by the players. You could not buy the vials in the marketplace. There were two options that allowed players to essentially get them for free, and if players wanted them faster than they could farm them, they purchased them from other users. People buying gems in order to have more currency to purchase these sounds more... indirect of a consequence. I feel the gachapon comparison falls apart the second these things started dropping in the coliseum. They were F2P items. @HylianTerror [quote]Don't shame folks for wanting refunds. Some of us seem lucky in the fact we have enough money to spare after bills to shrug off five bucks. Others can't.[/quote] I'm sorry, but... if somebody can't make ends meet, and can't spare five dollars from their monthly expenses, then they should not be spending those five dollars to buy gems. And that stands for whether or not those gems are guaranteed to get them a result they want on Flight Rising. FR is not responsible for poor decisions made by users. Full stop. People can keep repeating that FR never made the odds on the scattervials clear, but the users [I]did[/I] - there were stats floating around by the first day. And even if you never visited the forums, rolling uncommon seven times out of ten would tell you that something's up. The people that were worst affected by this, that purchased hundreds of scattervials - they knew what they were getting into early on. Refunds would be an organizational nightmare for FR to do, and a dangerous precedent besides. I'd be more supportive of the notion had the scattervials been in the gem marketplace, but they weren't. They were items produced by users and sold by users at user-set prices. Would FR owe you five times as much money if the going price of the scatters had been 1000g?

[quote name="Volinolona" date="2018-06-14 09:12:16" ] Guys. If you keep debating over whether or not people deserve refunds or this 'gambling' aspect of the Scattervials, you're going to bury the other issues on the thread that need fixing and the staff could very well take it as us having moved on from our original complaints, which would mean, to them, that they don't have to do anything to address the previously mentioned issues. [/quote] [color=green][font=Consolas]I agree with this. The whole gambling thing and the refunds are TOTALLY different issues from what we first started out with. I don't even know where the gambling accusations and the refunding things even came from. How can you refund something you didn't directly buy with money? So what you got vials with premium currency. They weren't directly meant to be bought via currency. Neopets' NC Mall works the exact same way. I do feel terribly sorry for everyone who has pumped hundreds of real life money into the premium currency, but you didn't directly buy Vials with that money. Other people grinded possibly for hours on end in the Coliseum IN ORDER TO sell the Vials on the AH. (Doesn't take into account how many people got the Glowing Eye vials obviously.) I wouldn't consider it gambling or the urgency for refunds. It's an exchange; it's the FR market. People made a lot of money off of grinding for the Vials and selling them. You can't exactly get refunds from them after this fiasco. Plus, the Vials have already been used. Again, sorry to the people who put hundreds of gems into the game, but it's primarily their fault for falling to the market out of impulse. Don't see why refunds should be considered unless it's directly putting money back into the website and not into other users' wallets. Anyway, the whole gambling thing and whatnot isn't even important. There was no inherent randomness of win or loss with getting Vials -- only with how much time someone put into grinding for them. Gambling takes into account inherent luck, and win or loss of what you put into it. Comparing the grinding and transaction of vials to gambling games like slots or Blackjack actually makes zero sense. So you bought or grinded in the Coli for a bunch of Vials. You roll a bunch of times on one or multiple dragons, and you don't like the results. You can't simply ask for your money back, because the vials were NOT in the Gem MP. They were Baldwin Brews (you aren't gambling to get the ingredients, you're grinding or buying them from others) and Coliseum drops. You can't exactly ask for your money back. I would understand wanting refunds if they were available in the Gem Marketplace exclusively, but even THEN, you are stuck. While I understand the two work completely differently, you don't really see people buying Tri-Color Scatterscrolls and using them on a dragon, and then complaining those are the colors they didn't want and asking for a refund. It's just luck and chance that you'll get a good roll -- no real, true gambling involved whatsoever. I would like these points to be explains further if anyone can though, even if they aren't inherently the features which made this event a total bust.

[quote name="KhaiLaeh" date="2018-06-14 09:54:59" ] I belive that everything could be much better if stuff give us an item that actually allows player to choose witch type of eyes he wants for one specific dragon of his instead of that scater sight vial. One item per player, fair and clear without any gambling and randomness added to the mix. Like "hey, try this feature, pal, it's a gift for you!" not "farm like crazy for two days, empty your hoard - you still not gonna get what you want". Overall, I am really frustrated right now... [/quote] [color=#37d095][font=Consolas] Actually, that would be an interesting idea. Nobody's really said anything about an idea like that yet. Would definitely erase the gambling issue, and getting an Uncommon roll over 10+ times in a row. It would save time and probably solve a few problems! Even if it removes part of the random aspect, I do think it would save time.

I don't know that everyone needs a gem refund, but I wouldn't say no to a vial refund. If they could refund the vials that were used on dragons and change the percentages so rarer eye types are actually possible, that would fix a lot (though not all) of the problems.

To me, people asking for refunds isn't the problem, it's a symptom of the problem. Everything that we've outlined earlier in this thread is a part of the problem for most players. People are upset about how the event was handled, so they just want to be done with it and not have put real or in-game money into it, so they ask for refunds. It's a sign of people being fed up with this.

Shaming everyone about that, saying they really don't deserve a refund, solves nothing. It most likely will only aggravate their discontentment. If staff makes some of the well supported changes some users have suggested however, the refund requests may very well lessen considerably. After all, people don't want refunds on a purchase they're fully satisfied with.