This seems like a snowballing issue.
Step 1: people complain about the update, or the fact that staff isn't acknowledging our concerns.
Step 2: those threads get deleted because ??? some of them got a little snippy?
Step 3: New threads about lack of staff acknowledgement now, naturally, reference the fact that previous criticism was deleted.
Step 4: Welp, now those threads are breaking the rule about moderation. Delete!
This is not helping. People are noticing. When you keep having to delete new threads about "why are they deleting critical threads?" that's a sign that the issue is reaching critical mass, and just removing the discussion of it will not make it go away. It'll only further upset people and erode trust, and that's not good for anyone or anything.
It's really upsetting from a staff that (IMO anyway) has historically been one of the best.
This seems like a snowballing issue.
Step 1: people complain about the update, or the fact that staff isn't acknowledging our concerns.
Step 2: those threads get deleted because ??? some of them got a little snippy?
Step 3: New threads about lack of staff acknowledgement now, naturally, reference the fact that previous criticism was deleted.
Step 4: Welp, now those threads are breaking the rule about moderation. Delete!
This is not helping. People are noticing. When you keep having to delete new threads about "why are they deleting critical threads?" that's a sign that the issue is reaching critical mass, and just removing the discussion of it will not make it go away. It'll only further upset people and erode trust, and that's not good for anyone or anything.
It's really upsetting from a staff that (IMO anyway) has historically been one of the best.
Don't forget the mod team is small, its not huge. When you end up with a half dozen or more threads all very active, all very busy and moving at pages appearing very very fast you fast** end up with a body of feedback beyond what the mods can manage.
When there's contention built into that and a bit of drama too lingering it can sometimes be easier to try and shut down the conversation to allow a bit of breathing room for the mod team to actually get together and write a reply. Remembering that most forums have hte majority of the team as volunteers whilst upper levels of the mod team/admin often have other duties and work.
Ergo the mods can't and don't spend all day just moderating.
Another aspect is that people start guessing about what's going on and get it wrong; then those wrong facts spread and soon become "fact". Which is another good reason to have rules aginst commenting on moderation (plus its often only done in a negative aspect so, again, its often drama inducing).
Right now the team likely just needs a little breather time; but also the membership needs a bit of breather time too. Things change and the eye change has proven more controversial than the team clearly thought it would be. It's not game ending though and for the vast majority of players FR continues on as normal. I think that we'll see a reply once the dust settles.
Don't forget that this has only been 3 days - two of which were a weekend and one is a Monday (and far as I'm aware* not all members of the FR team are 100% FR focused - ergo they've got other jobs and duties). So whilst members have had all the free time in the world the mods/staff might well not have had key people around and ready to "deal" with matters or even take in all the info.
*THERE right there I'm guessing already!
** In writing my reply several more posts and nearly a whole page appeared before I'd finished, and I touch type fairly fast.
Don't forget the mod team is small, its not huge. When you end up with a half dozen or more threads all very active, all very busy and moving at pages appearing very very fast you fast** end up with a body of feedback beyond what the mods can manage.
When there's contention built into that and a bit of drama too lingering it can sometimes be easier to try and shut down the conversation to allow a bit of breathing room for the mod team to actually get together and write a reply. Remembering that most forums have hte majority of the team as volunteers whilst upper levels of the mod team/admin often have other duties and work.
Ergo the mods can't and don't spend all day just moderating.
Another aspect is that people start guessing about what's going on and get it wrong; then those wrong facts spread and soon become "fact". Which is another good reason to have rules aginst commenting on moderation (plus its often only done in a negative aspect so, again, its often drama inducing).
Right now the team likely just needs a little breather time; but also the membership needs a bit of breather time too. Things change and the eye change has proven more controversial than the team clearly thought it would be. It's not game ending though and for the vast majority of players FR continues on as normal. I think that we'll see a reply once the dust settles.
Don't forget that this has only been 3 days - two of which were a weekend and one is a Monday (and far as I'm aware* not all members of the FR team are 100% FR focused - ergo they've got other jobs and duties). So whilst members have had all the free time in the world the mods/staff might well not have had key people around and ready to "deal" with matters or even take in all the info.
*THERE right there I'm guessing already!
** In writing my reply several more posts and nearly a whole page appeared before I'd finished, and I touch type fairly fast.
[quote name="AlkorDuskwing" date="2018-06-11 14:57:34" ]
That's interesting.. I was in a thread as well, and nobody ever talked about forum moderation, bans or anything. Just the event.
This is very disheartening and disappointing to see happen. I remember this place being much friendlier and open to things, did FR become ironclad and secretive the moment they decided to open registration to anybody?
[/quote]
You noticed it too?? That's the thread that's got me wondering wth it went!
AlkorDuskwing wrote on 2018-06-11 14:57:34:
That's interesting.. I was in a thread as well, and nobody ever talked about forum moderation, bans or anything. Just the event.
This is very disheartening and disappointing to see happen. I remember this place being much friendlier and open to things, did FR become ironclad and secretive the moment they decided to open registration to anybody?
You noticed it too?? That's the thread that's got me wondering wth it went!
[quote name="Deathtoll" date="2018-06-11 14:57:09" ]
... I think people are confusing mods and admins again? The mods have nothing to do with creation of content or how an event goes, they are the forum police.
If you don't like how an event goes, thats not up to the mods. That posts are going up that they like the eyes and stuff, is not a matter of moderation, its that they like what the admins did, and as such, is not discussing moderation, and stays up.
If someone posted something along the lines of 'I like how you banned [player] for [action]'. That would be removed, as it is discussing a 'positive moderation'.
[/quote]
I agree with this, yet at the same time, posts negatively (yet civilly) discussing admin actions are being removed without warning. Maybe mods are being brought into this [i]because[/i] some people don't know the difference, which would help clear things up a bit and maybe prevent actions like this in the future?
Deathtoll wrote on 2018-06-11 14:57:09:
... I think people are confusing mods and admins again? The mods have nothing to do with creation of content or how an event goes, they are the forum police.
If you don't like how an event goes, thats not up to the mods. That posts are going up that they like the eyes and stuff, is not a matter of moderation, its that they like what the admins did, and as such, is not discussing moderation, and stays up.
If someone posted something along the lines of 'I like how you banned [player] for [action]'. That would be removed, as it is discussing a 'positive moderation'.
I agree with this, yet at the same time, posts negatively (yet civilly) discussing admin actions are being removed without warning. Maybe mods are being brought into this
because some people don't know the difference, which would help clear things up a bit and maybe prevent actions like this in the future?
I also was confused about the thread disappearing. Nothing bad was being said, just simple discussion that leans towards "I don't like how this thing was implemented". Most people, including me, highly supported the event and the concept, but how it was executed fell flat.
I also was confused about the thread disappearing. Nothing bad was being said, just simple discussion that leans towards "I don't like how this thing was implemented". Most people, including me, highly supported the event and the concept, but how it was executed fell flat.
" hey staff, why are you deleting the threads ?"
Staff : immediately launches the thread nuke.
Even if the rule feels pretty odd, I can at least see why some threads were deleted ? Some other's seemed not to discuss it heavily enough for permanent deletion, in no way that could really be harmful, or just not all; but were still deleted. At least the last time I checked some of them, they were what I'd consider pretty civil and at times constructive, in comparison to what I thought this mess was going to be.
Even if there were a couple of bad posts, haven't the staff at least attempted to give some form of warning in the past ? You know, delete anything that's objectively terrible and give us a heads up on what's okay and what's not; only permanently deleting or locking if the thread persists and ignores warnings.
This feels almost completely different to how I always thought the site handled itself, as the whole root of the problem update was to begin with.
" hey staff, why are you deleting the threads ?"
Staff : immediately launches the thread nuke.
Even if the rule feels pretty odd, I can at least see why some threads were deleted ? Some other's seemed not to discuss it heavily enough for permanent deletion, in no way that could really be harmful, or just not all; but were still deleted. At least the last time I checked some of them, they were what I'd consider pretty civil and at times constructive, in comparison to what I thought this mess was going to be.
Even if there were a couple of bad posts, haven't the staff at least attempted to give some form of warning in the past ? You know, delete anything that's objectively terrible and give us a heads up on what's okay and what's not; only permanently deleting or locking if the thread persists and ignores warnings.
This feels almost completely different to how I always thought the site handled itself, as the whole root of the problem update was to begin with.
I wrote an open letter that was deleted. It discussed administrator communication, not moderator action (pm me if you'd like to read it; I can also provide examples of the comments that were on the thread, which were frustrated but constructive). Other open letters discussing *just purely the event* were also taken down. It feels... weird. I'm so used to the admins being chill folks who meme at each other/us/themselves and are quick with a clarification and reassurance. Not... this.
I wrote an open letter that was deleted. It discussed administrator communication, not moderator action (pm me if you'd like to read it; I can also provide examples of the comments that were on the thread, which were frustrated but constructive). Other open letters discussing *just purely the event* were also taken down. It feels... weird. I'm so used to the admins being chill folks who meme at each other/us/themselves and are quick with a clarification and reassurance. Not... this.
[quote name="Reithya" date="2018-06-11 14:59:31" ]
You noticed it too?? That's the thread that's got me wondering wth it went!
[/quote]
Mhm. It even started with a proposal for staff appreciation day, but, I dont know at this point to be fair.
Reithya wrote on 2018-06-11 14:59:31:
You noticed it too?? That's the thread that's got me wondering wth it went!
Mhm. It even started with a proposal for staff appreciation day, but, I dont know at this point to be fair.
I just think all feedback, as long as its civil, should be allowed. Pruning the threads so its a nice display of what is wanted, just looks shady.
I just think all feedback, as long as its civil, should be allowed. Pruning the threads so its a nice display of what is wanted, just looks shady.
[quote name="AlkorDuskwing" date="2018-06-11 15:03:41" ]
[quote name="Reithya" date="2018-06-11 14:59:31" ]
You noticed it too?? That's the thread that's got me wondering wth it went!
[/quote]
Mhm. It even started with a proposal for staff appreciation day, but, I dont know at this point to be fair.
[/quote]
I was reading that thread too, there was some disagreement but from what I saw it was completely civil, there wasn't bashing or anything.
AlkorDuskwing wrote on 2018-06-11 15:03:41:
Reithya wrote on 2018-06-11 14:59:31:
You noticed it too?? That's the thread that's got me wondering wth it went!
Mhm. It even started with a proposal for staff appreciation day, but, I dont know at this point to be fair.
I was reading that thread too, there was some disagreement but from what I saw it was completely civil, there wasn't bashing or anything.
