Flight Rising Discussion

@catgame21234
Yes, I've seen that ^^; I'm wondering what it is though. We know the cause, but not what it actually is.

[i](Popping in to say that I haven't had time to read all of the responses -- or any of my PMs -- quite yet. I've been on an impromptu trip! However, I've seen some phenomenal ideas and perspectives on Alloy and Facet and will hopefully get a chance to respond tomorrow! :D This is turning out to be an excellent discussion so far!)[/i] [b]On the subject of Gembond:[/b] While I think discussing the semantics of whether it's a disease or an infection is rather off-topic (though quite interesting in its own right!), I must say, I love how it's being used as a point of comparison or contrast to Alloy and Facet! :D I had actually forgotten about the staff confirming that dragons with Gembond tend to have hindered movement. For those who are curious, [url=http://www1.flightrising.com/forums/frd/2125195/165#post_31630444]here's the link to the original post[/url], and the relevant Q&A quoted: [quote="Aequorin"] [quote] Does having Gembond make it harder to fly for a dragon who has it, since they're weighed down by rocks growing from their bodies, or are they stronger than dragons without Gembond to make up for the added weight? [/quote] It is typically more difficult for a dragon with gembond to fly; however, it also provides additional protection, making it more difficult to penetrate their hide in combat. They may not be able to fly as well but that doesn't mean they are easy targets. [/quote] I think that it would be extremely interesting if dragons with Alloy, Facet, and/or their respective primaries had to sacrifice at least some of their ability to fly for the extra protective layering their genes would provide, much like a dragon with Gembond likely would! ^^ Additionally, @ethanol and @nuttysaladtree mentioned Snappers and Bogsneaks as dragons who can't fly very well. Whether they have any of these genes or not, these breeds have something else in common: [center] [item="Anticipate"] [/center] It's late where I am, so I apologize if this sounds like a bit of a leap in logic, but I feel like it's interesting to point out that these breeds -- neither of which are known for their prowess at flight -- are born wielding an energy stone which shows a wing being used as a defensive shield. [s]Then again, Mirrors aren't known for good flight either, but they have Scratch as their default instead.[/s] Of course, in a mechanical sense people can stat their dragons however they like and alter their starting battle stones. But this leads me to wonder if Alloy or Facet dragons -- in a lore sense, like Snappers and Bogsneaks -- could be correlated with dragons who are naturally more proficient Anticitanks at the cost of their ability to fly as well as dragons with other secondary genes, if at all. If the wings are being used as a shield the way the energy stone and its animation would indicate, I could see that being a distinct possibility! ...Hopefully this makes sense. XD Again, it's rather late where I am, so maybe this sounds like a much cooler idea in my tired head. [size=2]Also, if anyone in this thread is interested in a more in-depth discussion about Gembond as a future Gene Lore prompt, feel free to PM me or any of the thread volunteers and let us know! Based on the conversation I saw, I believe it would encourage the sharing of so many fascinating theories (and some intriguing science!). :D[/size]

Just found this thread! Hi /)

I tend to think that cryface/metalloy is actually crystal/metal, but that doesn't exactly mean it has to be heavy crystal/metal or entirely crystal/metal. There has to be a layer of muscle in there somewhere along with bones or else a dragon literally couldn't move, and it's not like giant flying metal objects are anything strange irl (airplanes). The genes themselves don't look like they'd interfere with any movement, imo.

On top of this, I tend to think of (most) dragon species as being really optimized for flight, ie birds; Imperials, Ridgebacks, and Guardians are basically flying tanks already, the extra weight from cryface metalloy wouldn't bother them too much. They might even help some with aerodynamics? Cryface has a whole bunch of edges which a dragon could probably control to act like those pits on golf balls, and metalloys probably have like 30% less drag/air resistance than all the other dragons and are faster as a result (except maybe irishim). gotta go fast

@MurEyeUh Oh, dear. Thin wings that crinkle like tinfoil doesn't sound good! D: I can imagine a dragon with Alloy like that may both struggle flying and protecting oneself with their wings. I wonder if wings like that would primarily be just for show, or if they could still be used for other things (like attracting mates).


@CrystalPegasus88 Makes sense to me! ^^ I agree it would make more sense for these genes to be pretty patterns (caused by some truly fascinating natural sources!) than to represent solid metal or crystal. Though, possibly, a solid metal or crystal dragon could be alive through magic as a living statue!


@SilverFoxDemon I love the concept of an Alloy dragon having an outer layer of metal on their wings, and the metal slowly "growing" over time and replacing the feathers (or leather) underneath! :D That's so fascinating! I could imagine that the processes of teaching Alloy hatchlings how to fly or glide with minimal additional weight, and the transition from metal-coated wings to true metal wings, would both be smooth!


@Azzie @Mnkn10 I can see how a dragon made of metal or crystal would find flight impossible (without magical assistance), especially if they're solid living statues! ^^ Your comments about believing it's different for dragons with naturally-born versions of these genes makes me wonder, tangentially, whether Alloy, Facet, and their respective primaries could have originally introduced into the gene pool by such dragons mating with naturally-born dragons. Could be interesting! :D


@EmberEyes Ooh, nice ideas! :D I'm especially intrigued by the notion of fur being made out of crystal on Tundras; photonic crystals in particular would be an interesting option. First of all, they can definitely be made into fibers, similar to fur; and second of all, the kind of iridescence it produces could potentially make a dragon's fur not only look like Facet (as in an opal), but like Alloy (as in a butterfly wing)!

Unfortunately, I don't know enough about photonic crystals to be able to tell if they'd weigh down a dragon or not, but that could be interesting to look into. :D


@wishwosh Oh my goodness, it would be awesome (and kind of terrifying) if the growths of Gembond could eventually become Crystal and Facet and undo a dragon's ability to fly! That would have interesting ramifications on the armoring of a dragon, too, since Gembond dragons, as I quoted here, receive additional protection from their condition. Also, if I had any Photoshop skills, I would have phoatlshopped an airplane with a dragon head because that comment made me crack up. XD


@Kessaria Ooh, those are cool concepts! ^^ First of all, I really like your analysis on how Alloy and Facet are named compared to their respective primaries; it makes a lot of sense! And second of all, I adore the idea that Alloy and Facet wings share certain properties with their namesakes while not being made of those materials! Additionally, you made a cool argument for how Facet wings may actually be better suited for flying in inhospitable environments than Alloy wings, and I just... I love it. :D


@Hexingisfun @Ender080 Your theories make plenty of sense to me! :D Viewing them as a slightly different (and heavier) scale structure for each gene could totally work, as well as how they would hinder flight at least slightly -- though, as said, probably more in Facet's case, due to the density of the scales and possible rigidity issues.

Also, I'm with Hexingisfun and @Maiiau in regards to using magic as a flight aid! I have no doubts it can help with dragons who may have difficulties flying for any reason -- including, of course, having heavier wings, as could be the case with Alloy and/or Facet. ^^


@FeDog Wow! After reading that resource you linked on bird feathers, I can see why you'd find Facet (and Crystal) to work well on feathered dragons in a scientific sense! :D Given the color range, the structure, and even the iridescence of some bird feathers, I adore the idea that Facet (and Crystal) on such dragons is a crystalline illusion caused by the properties of their feathers!

(This also goes well with @DragonDraws's idea that Alloy and Facet probably wouldn't affect the functions of dragon feathers as much! ^^ If it's purely a cosmetic illusion, that totally works!)


@buffalopigpie Ooh, I love your comparison of Alloy to the sunbeam scale snake and of Facet to hummingbirds. ^^ What awesome examples! I also particularly love the concept that Alloy (and perhaps Facet as well) could be a result of abundant organic minerals coming from a parent dragon! :D There has been a lot of cool science brought up throughout this discussion, but I'm now wondering what kind of organic minerals could lead to this kind of sheen. And/or if, like @IronPen suggested, dragons with these genes may need to regularly consume a certain amount of such materials to keep their luster!

If anyone has any ideas on these fronts, I'd love to hear them! :D


@PlatinumDream I'm glad you found this thread, because that was an awesome addition to the current prompt! :D I definitely agree that there should be a layer of actual muscles and bones in order for a dragon with any one of these genes to be able to move; unless they're a living statue animated by magic (or something of that nature), it makes a lot more sense for them to be this way.

But what really blew me away were your arguments that dragons with Alloy, Facet, and their respective primaries may actually have enhanced flight due to the nature of these materials! That's a really fascinating take on the prompt, and I love the examples you used! :D I really wish I had follow-up questions or ideas based on that concept, but thank you so much for sharing!


@******* I'm so intrigued by the idea of Facet (and Crystal) turning the dragon's body parts into glass! :D And, honestly, your reasoning about Facet and flight sounds right to me. Provided the magic of the dragon would ensure the glass is flexible enough to move, it would make sense that they probably still couldn't fly unless their glass wings somehow struck the perfect balance between weight and durability. I feel like this could mean that, by extension, Crystal could also really slow down the movements of a dragon all across their body.

Additionally, I'm in love with the idea that the metal materials that Alloy wings could be made of may vary from dragon to dragon! The example you gave was so cool, I can't even put it in words. ^^ Now I want to get an Alloy dragon and make them an Anticitank with this as their lore.


@nuttysaladtree @catgame21234 @Lunakitty Those are some incredible examples from nature! I love how diverse your collective sources are, too -- fruits, fungi, bird feathers, fish scales, and butterfly wings alike. ^^

Specifically regarding tiny scales: I love the idea that Facet (and Crystal) could be an illusion caused by tons of these things refracting light at the same time, and that it would look like all one layer from afar. ^^ I feel something similar can be said for how it would work on Metallic and Alloy due to the way certain other external organic materials are structured -- they'd just all be more organized and thus reflect light without "sudden" color changes, like with Facet's accent colors. Speaking of which...

Specifically regarding Pollia condensata, bird feathers, and butterfly wings: I find it so glorious and fascinating that these vastly different organisms both adapted specially-layered fiber sheets on their skin/scales that give them their color and shine! :D It's especially interesting to me, since I have a fascination and fondness for both optics and biology alike!

Honestly, combined with what I said regarding tiny scales, and after reading through all these posts (and FeDog's source on bird feathers), I'm heavily inclined to adopt this as my new headcanon for how Alloy, Facet, and their respective primaries work!

(As for Cupriavidus metallidurans, I do agree, nuttysaladtree -- it would be undeniably awesome if dragons with these genes actually had a symbiotic relationship with fungi. :D)

@Dreamnorn
Thanks! I like the idea of it personally because it would definitely help in the transition; I can't imagine hatchlings being born with heavy wings and then not being able to fly because they don't know how to work with them right :c

But yeah, I can't imagine them having just completely metal, heavy wings--they definitely wouldn't be able to fly without technology, and I'm betting even gliding would be a problem unless their arms were really strong and used to it /:

@SilverFoxDemon Same here, dude! It just makes a lot of sense that way. :D And I can't imagine them flying without the aid of extra magic or technology if their wings are made of heavy metal, either. Granted, in some breeds that may not be the worst thing (like Alloy wings on the already land-bound Snapper could possibly strengthen their Anticipate action in a lore sense), but yeah. Otherwise I could see that being quite uncomfortable, if not painful for flying or gliding. :c

@Dreamnorn
In the past I always viewed Crystal / Facet as a handicap, like that part of the body can't be moved. Opal I kind of view as crystalline scarring (potentially left behind by the removal of Gembond, though of course it wouldn't be as smooth...), and then Metallic / Alloy... Well, it still leaves the feeling that the dragon has its feathers? I don't know if that makes sense pfft

I think that's why I like Metallic / Alloy, though they're not my top choice of genes still haha

Edit:
2nd thought on Opal is that it's like an exposed crystalline layer typically found beneath the scales of a dragon with Metallic / Alloy or Crystal / Facet, as well as dragons with a history of Gembond in their bloodline >0>

A brief, pseudo-announcement before we dive into the prompt: I don't know how plausible it will be for my replies to include everyone for this prompt or future ones. :c There have been so many fantastic ideas shared in the last prompts, and I'm both excited and stunned to see how much Lorenieth has grown so fast! ^^ However, I have an IRL job that can keep me pretty busy, and it's been picking up over the last half a week with few signs of slowing down. It was difficult to find time to read the answers to last prompt, let alone reply to them all. D: I may have to pick and choose which ones to reply to and link together in the future simply due to lack of time. ;-; This may also slow me down from replying to PMs. I'm sorry, everyone! ----- [center][size=6][Breed Lore] What lore applications can you think of for a Tundra's poor long-term social memory?[/size] Buffer Prompt[/center] I figured I'd start off today's prompt with part of the quote that inspired it! [quote="The Tundra Dragons Page in the Encyclopedia"] Tundras have difficulty remembering names, faces, and specific details about dragons that they have not seen in over a season. Despite this, their olfactory memory is excellent. "You smell like a friendship." is a common greeting between Tundra dragons who have not seen one another in years, the names and details of their association forgotten. [/quote] [url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?p=wiki&article=18](Click here for the full context!)[/url] Today, let's speculate, brainstorm, and share some interesting ideas revolving around the canonical poor social memory of Tundras. In what ways may the process of forgetting be sped up or slowed down? May it apply to more than just friends and enemies? To more than just social ties? Are there any ways this memory loss can be useful for specific job positions in a clan? For specific individuals? How can it be used as a tool for drama and comedy alike? Feel free to share your Tundras with lore that relates to this prompt, come up with cool hypothetical lore scenarios, discuss the science of losing or recovering memories and/or how smell can play a role, and build off one another's ideas! :D [s]I'm hoping for a lot of [i]fluffy[/i] scenarios.[/s] [center][img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/progeny?body=78&bodygene=13&breed=6&element=10&gender=0&tert=146&tertgene=11&winggene=11&wings=82&auth=3843f2e4d6e1bdad21014c8d57f781cdf5a0a1d2&dummyext=prev.png[/img] {*}[/center] [size=4][u][b]Some Thoughts:[/b][/u][/size] This is a subject I have a lot of personal interest in, so I have a lot of thoughts about it! :D But since I was a bit pressed for time in writing my response to this prompt, I'm going pick and choose points which make me happy or that I've found extra noteworthy. First of all, [url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?p=wiki&article=92]Jailbreak[/url] has a moment which shows that social memory loss in Tundras can be sped up with enough stress: [columns] [img]http://flightrising.com/dropbox/lore_ice9268676.png[/img] [nextcol] [i]"Let's go get him," Wemba broke the silence. Trendal didn’t respond, his eyes blank as he stared across the ice field. “Who?” “Oh dear,” Wemba said, throwing a wing around her friend, guiding him forward. “You let the stress get to you, didn’t you?” The skydancer smiled affectionately at Trendal. “You’ll know him when you smell him.”[/i] [/columns] This may vary between individuals, but given how stress can make it more difficult for humans to remember things in real life, I think this would make a lot of sense as a general trend for the species. Second of all, I see no reason why a Tundra's smell memory can't extend past friends and enemies. Family members and lovers come to mind as other strong relationships which can be affected by this memory loss (and rekindled thanks the olfactory impressions left upon one another). And I'm sure there are other possibilities, too! I actually felt like exploring some of these in my hypothetical scenarios in the bulletpoints below. :D I can't wait to read any other lore ideas that may be shared! Third of all, jobs! I actually think a Tundra's ability to forget could be useful in a high-security prison setting, especially when one considers the Icewarden created them. As jailers, I can see a Tundra slowly losing empathy for the dragons or beastclans that are locked in isolation, only remembering that they are enemies and must not be freed until ordered by their warden. And, last but not least, here are some hypothetical scenarios for lore which incorporate a Tundra's social memory loss! (And feel free to build upon any of these in the thread and/or use them as you will. ^^) [LIST] [*]A young Tundra, believing she was abandoned by her birth family, sets off on a quest to find them and learn more about them, hoping she will recognize them by smell if she searches clans all over Sornieth. However, over the course of her epic journey, she comes to the realization that she is a G1 and never had a blood family to begin with. [*]A Tundra knows his mate is departing for a year in travel and is desperate to not forget them. He writes down everything he knows about them: their name, their likes, their dislikes, the nature of their relationship, standout moments that they've had together. Every day that they're gone, he studies this journal to keep his memories of them alive. [*]Each year, two Tundras go to the same training camp, become friendly rivals, cause joyful chaos with their rivalry, and leave only to forget their association entirely. The instructors try to keep them separated and prevent repeat scenarios to no avail. Students of other breeds take bets on how long it will take before those two fluffs rediscover the nature of their relationship and begin the annual insanity once more. [/LIST] [center][size=2]Also, @SilverFoxDemon, that's a cool interpretation to me. :D I like how Opal can be viewed as a scar or as layers of crystal under the skin! Pinglist was here.[/size][/center]

I can't really say much about this topic, as I don't tend to pay a lot of attention to actual breed lore (and also rn i have like... one, maybe 2 permatundras that are part of my lore)

(also do make sure to take your time with the prompts! im sure everyone understands that you can be busy sometimes)

But I do have another prompt, as food for thought, and subsequent ideas:

• Two Tundras that travel a lot meet one day, and from their friendship spawns a fierce love. They become mates, but after a while both discover that their hunger for travel cannot be quelled. Knowing that they would eventually forget each other, they make amends, and promise to each other to meet at a certain spot within a few years. (If one has found a different mate until then, that's also okay)
  
  So eventually they really do forget each other, still travelling happily through the lands, and yet - they both still remember that for whatever reason, they must come back to this certain spot. Its written promimently in their journal, it has to have significance!
  
  And they come back, and they see each other...and they know they like each other, because the other smells good and safe and like Home, but whatever memories they had of each other is gone.
  
  But that's okay! They fall in love all over again, and it's just as wonderful, or perhaps even more, because while they do not consciously remember... perhaps their subconscious has certain things still stored in connection with their smell. Perhaps something along the lines of "I brought you orchids, I thought you might like them for some reason." "Woah! That's my favorite food!"
  
  And they stay together for a while, but still they both wish to travel... and the cycle repeats. And each time they fall in love again and again and again and its a blessing each time. They don't remember every time, but they know they have a history together, even if the specifics elude them.

Typing this out spawned another idea:

What if Tundras have a way of remembering people/memories of people by smell? For example, a past friend might've loved the scent of thyme, so the Tundra keeps a bit of thyme in a little bottle, and every time they smell it they remember the fond memories, even if the face of the dragon eludes them.

Tundras that have whole shelves full of those tiny bottles, each with something unique that reminds them of their many past aquaintances and their fun adventures.

Or, on the other end of the spectrum: a Tundra with a quest for revenge, and they don't remember who has wronged them, but they remember when and they remember what was done, and they keep an ever-glowing ember in an enchanted bag around their neck. Each time the scent of burning hits their nose, their righteous anger is renewed.