Find a Dragon

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Hello, and welcome to my dragon search! Here you'll find all the dragons I'm looking for!


What's going on here?

• Basically, there's lots of very specific dragons that I'm looking for, and as you can imagine, it's not exactly easy to find very specific dragons. So, I made this thread!
  
  
• Below this, you'll find a list of dragons I'm looking for, with scries, ideal genes and colours. You'll also find a list of acceptable variations for each; while I'd like a perfect match, these are fine too. As a general rule, accurate colours are more important than accurate genes.
  
  
• If you have a dragon that matches any of these criteria, or is close enough that I could use it to breed one of my dream dragons, and you'd be happy to sell, trade, lend or gift it to me, ping me here and give me a link to the dragon (or dragons) in question! And I'll tell you if I'm interested!
  
  
• I probably won't pay anything more than 40g/40,000 treasure unless the dragon is very close to the ideal, but I do have lots of skins, apparel, fodder and pretty dragons to trade if that helps anyhow.

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[center][color=#c77400][Size=6][b]Ideal Dragons:[/b][/size][/color][/center] [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=74&bodygene=2&breed=14&element=1&eyetype=0&gender=0&tert=157&tertgene=11&winggene=4&wings=157&auth=ee21c96575651170d155a9b5a1e2e77f32bb3fe2&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 1:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Male Bogsneak Earth Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Moon Tiger Umber Speckle Umber Thylacine Earth Common ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [b]Breed Range:[/b] Any breed [b]Gender Range:[/b] Preferably male [b]Flight Range:[/b] Any [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] White, Moon, Dust, Grey [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Any gene [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Any brown range [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Any [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Any brown range [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Any [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=136&bodygene=2&breed=10&element=4&eyetype=2&gender=0&tert=59&tertgene=11&winggene=16&wings=166&auth=eb06c01399a1d07709d1c9be9f13f88da82ca532&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 2:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Male Wildclaw Water Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Cobalt Tiger/Bar Auburn Spinner Crimson Thylacine Water Unusual ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Wildclaw, Nocturne, Coatl [b]Gender Range:[/b] Preferably male [b]Flight Range:[/b] Any, preferably Water or Arcane [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Cobalt, Twilight [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Bar, Leopard, Petals, Skink, Speckle, Tiger [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Auburn [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Any [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Crimson, Berry [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Scales, Thylacine [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=174&bodygene=19&breed=7&element=7&eyetype=2&gender=1&tert=15&tertgene=20&winggene=1&wings=68&auth=78ca48cfd30bb8b3065e390624552638c1b0a263&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 3:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Female Spiral Shadow Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Twilight Jaguar Heather Shimmer Lavender Ghost Shadow Unusual ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Any [b]Gender Range:[/b] Female [b]Flight Range:[/b] Shadow, Arcane, Water [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Twilight, Heather, Purple [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Jaguar, Leopard [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Heather, Twilight [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Shimmer, Alloy, Blend, Butterfly, Noxtide, Sludge, Striation, [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Lavender [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Any [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=4&bodygene=2&breed=12&element=7&eyetype=2&gender=1&tert=137&tertgene=9&winggene=6&wings=137&auth=a134e86d148dc75acbc21295c3c5f76f81075d14&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 4:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Female Coatl Shadow Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Platinum Tiger Fog Current Fog Okapi Shadow Unusual ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Coatl, Wildclaw [b]Gender Range:[/b] Female [b]Flight Range:[/b] Shadow, Ice [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Platinum, Fog [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Any [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Fog, Platinum [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] any [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Fog, Platinum [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Okapi [center][b]Breeding Project: Underway[/b][/center] [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=41&bodygene=13&breed=7&element=5&eyetype=3&gender=0&tert=78&tertgene=18&winggene=24&wings=41&auth=d22fbf1d2ae75fa48349364a98c6121a25af1b32&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 6:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Male Spiral Lightning Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Goldenrod Petals Goldenrod Noxtide Spearmint/Cerulean Capsule Lightning Rare ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Any [b]Gender Range:[/b] Male [b]Flight Range:[/b] Lightning [u]only[/u] [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Goldenrod [u]only[/u] [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Petals [u]only[/u] [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Goldenrod [u]only[/u] [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Any [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Spearmint, Cerulean, Jade [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Any [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=44&bodygene=16&breed=8&element=11&eyetype=0&gender=0&tert=146&tertgene=12&winggene=13&wings=51&auth=b19b9e460f40221dc67848865359265b60c02025&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 7:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Male Imperial Fire/Earth Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Ivory Falcon Beige Butterfly Dust Stained Fire/Earth Common ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Any [b]Gender Range:[/b] Male [b]Flight Range:[/b] Any [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Ivory, Tan, Beige [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Any [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Beige, Sand, Stone, Tan, [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] [u]Butterfly Only[/u] [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Dust, Silver, Moon, Beige, Stone, Taupe [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] [u]Stained only[/u] [center][b]Breeding Project: Underway[/b][/center] [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=143&bodygene=40&breed=11&element=1&eyetype=0&gender=1&tert=88&tertgene=9&winggene=22&wings=149&auth=e5451433e11c177a1f05c5c45093988bd97430c3&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 8:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Female Nocturne Earth Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Latte Leopard/Savannah Turquoise Trail Hickory Okapi Earth Common ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Any [b]Gender Range:[/b] Female [b]Flight Range:[/b] Any [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Latte, Sand, Tarnish [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Falcon, Savannah, Leopard, Pinstripe, Ripple, Lionfish, Tapir [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Turquoise [u]only[/u] [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Any [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Hickory, Soil, Sable, Dirt, Clay, Tarnish [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Any [center][b]Breeding Project: Underway[/b][/center] [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=56&bodygene=23&breed=10&element=1&eyetype=0&gender=1&tert=143&tertgene=5&winggene=22&wings=151&auth=cdf073ac906d6941256f850b0df42b4cf7825e3c&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 9:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Female Wildclaw Earth Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Chocolate Python Phthalo/Abyss Trail Latte Underbelly Earth Common ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Wildclaw, Coatl [b]Gender Range:[/b] Female [b]Flight Range:[/b] Any [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Chocolate, Brown, Sable, Umber, Clay [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Any [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Abyss, Phthalo, Azure, Denim [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Any [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Latte, Driftwood, Hickory, Tarnish, Ginger, Tan, Sand, Beige, Stone [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Any [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=21&bodygene=10&breed=4&element=10&eyetype=3&gender=0&tert=24&tertgene=20&winggene=40&wings=94&auth=00e66543d6b9ee0ec0d4c1a28817a6afcffcd786&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 10:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Male Pearlcatcher Nature Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Blue Cherub Copper Clouded Stonewash Ghost Nature Rare ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Pearlcatcher, Imperial [b]Gender Range:[/b] Male [b]Flight Range:[/b] Any [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Blue, Periwinkle, Lapis, Cornflower, Ultramarine, Cobalt, Navy [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Any [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Copper, Auburn, Ginger, Tarnish, Bronze, Terracotta, Carrot [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Any [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Stonewash, Splash, Cornflower, Sky, Carribbean, Teal, Cerulean, Robin, Aqua, Spruce, Smoke, Dust, Silver, Ice [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Ghost, Glimmer, Smoke, Crackle, Underbelly, Lace, Runes, Ringlets [center][b]Breeding Project: Underway[/b][/center] [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=54&bodygene=21&breed=12&element=1&eyetype=3&gender=0&tert=95&tertgene=10&winggene=2&wings=53&auth=d4a5a409fe4626c8f1167209d96eacdb18e89837&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 11:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Male Coatl Earth Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Soil Tapir/Cherub Slate Stripes/Safari Taupe Glimmer Earth Rare ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Coatl, wildclaw [b]Gender Range:[/b] Male, Female [b]Flight Range:[/b] Any [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Soil, Slate, Driftwood, Latte [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Tapir, Bar, Cherub, Falcon, Laced, Leopard, Metallic, Pinstripe, Petals, Python, Vipera [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Slate, Stone, Taupe, Driftwood, Soil [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Stripes, Safari, Bee, Butterfly, Trail, Striation, Current, Edged, Peregrine, [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Taupe, Coal, Shale, Flint, Beige, Stone, Slate, Driftwood, Latte, Clay, Soil, Hickory, Lead, Charcoal, Oilslick [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Glimmer, Stained [center][b]Breeding Project: Underway[/b][/center] [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]http://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=22&bodygene=22&breed=7&element=11&eyetype=10&gender=1&tert=114&tertgene=18&winggene=24&wings=94&auth=1ad8afa4ac7d282d9f6a641e60e4d084c7311eac&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 12:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Female Spiral Fire Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Splash Pinstripe Copper Noxtide Amethyst/Orchid Capsule Fire Swirl ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Spiral, Coatl, Fae, Ridgeback, Snapper, Guardian, [b]Gender Range:[/b] Female [b]Flight Range:[/b] Fire [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Splash, Cobalt, Blue, Cornflower, Periwinkle, Carribbean, Teal, Cyan, Robin [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Pinstripe, Wasp, Crystal, Jupiter, Lionfish, Metallic, Petals [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Copper, Sand [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Noxtide, Toxin, Hypnotic, Spinner, Trail, Hex, [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Amethyst, Orchid, Heather, Purple, Nightshade, Violet, Grape, Royal, Iris [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Any [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=147&bodygene=22&breed=1&element=1&eyetype=0&gender=0&tert=75&tertgene=24&winggene=22&wings=46&auth=9d0810c97befb4f84d4db8307ed9dc65a54783f1&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 13:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Male Fae Earth Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Grape Pinstripe Sunshine Trail Marigold Peacock Earth Common ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Fae, Skydancer, Pearlcatcher [b]Gender Range:[/b] Male [b]Flight Range:[/b] Any [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Grape, Violet, [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Pinstripe, Wasp, Tapir, Petals, Lionfish, Leopard, Jaguar [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Sunshine, Saffron, Grape, [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Trail, Noxtide [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Marigold, Iris, [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] [u]Peacock only[/u] [center][b]Breeding Project: Underway[/b][/center] [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=111&bodygene=2&breed=4&element=9&eyetype=11&gender=1&tert=68&tertgene=5&winggene=17&wings=157&auth=8b615ed5068a59d73beb637b5b2c907b7a88d154&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 14:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Female Pearlcatcher Arcane Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Eggplant Tiger Umber Alloy Heather Underbelly Arcane Innocent ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Any [b]Gender Range:[/b] Female [b]Flight Range:[/b] Arcane, Shadow, Water, Plague [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Eggplant, Iris, Royal, Violet, Indigo, Twilight, [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] any [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Umber, Sable, Dirt, Soil, Chocolate, Hickory [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Alloy, Clouded, Current, Daub, Hypnotic, Rosette, Safari, Shimmer, Sludge, Stripes, Toxin, Trail [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Heather, Lavender, Mist, Wisteria, Iris, Storm, Twilight, Bubblegum [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Underbelly, Glimmer, Capsule, Filigree, Firefly, Ghost, Lace, Ringlets, Runes, Stained, Veined [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=4&bodygene=20&breed=14&element=11&eyetype=4&gender=0&tert=133&tertgene=10&winggene=17&wings=4&auth=7e64eace5a92e725873c193599de29cc51f4d353&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 15:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Male Bogsneak Fire Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Platinum Wasp Platinum Alloy Carrot Glimmer Fire Faceted ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Any [b]Gender Range:[/b] Any [b]Flight Range:[/b] Fire, Light, Ice [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Platinum, Orca, Moon, White, Antique, Cream, Silver, Dust [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Wasp, Metallic [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Platinum, Orca, Moon, White, Antique, Cream, Silver, Dust (preferably same as primary) [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Alloy, Bee, Shimmer, Sludge, Stripes [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] Carrot, Orange, Fire, Copper, Tomato, Vermilion, Strawberry, Red, [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] [u]Glimmer Only[/u] [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=90&bodygene=20&breed=7&element=4&eyetype=2&gender=0&tert=117&tertgene=13&winggene=20&wings=28&auth=14ff4f6100a188aca43025f49dae028364ad13e0&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 16:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Male Spiral Water Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Ultramarine Wasp Carribbean/Cobalt Bee Cerulean Contour Water Unusual ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Any [b]Gender Range:[/b] Preferably Male [b]Flight Range:[/b] Water, Lightning [b]Eye Type:[/b] Unusual, Facet, Goat(lightning only), Uncommon(lightning only) [b]Primary Range:[/b] [u]Ultramarine Only[/u] [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Wasp, Iridescent [b]Secondary Range:[/b] Carribbean, Cobalt, Splash, Azure, Robin, Ultramarine [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Bee, Sludge, Butterfly, Constellation, Facet, Hypnotic, Striation [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] [u]Cerulean Only[/u] [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] Contour, Circuit, Firefly, Ringlets, Runes, Smoke, Stained, [rule] [rule] [columns] [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=80&bodygene=15&breed=12&element=10&eyetype=7&gender=0&tert=130&tertgene=14&winggene=17&wings=130&auth=ae8aa58158b6f17a9351f50b8f0fceeb9db82f5b&dummyext=prev.png[/img] [nextcol][center][color=transparent]___________________________ [b][color=#c77400][size=5]Dragon 17:[/size][/color] [color=black][size=4]Male Coatl Nature Flight[/center] ----- [center][b]Shamrock Skink Radioactive Alloy Radioactive Runes Nature Glowing ----- [/columns] [center][b][color=#c77400][size=4]Acceptable variations:[/size][/color][/b][/center] [Left][b]Breed Range:[/b] Coatl, Wildclaw [b]Gender Range:[/b] Either [b]Flight Range:[/b] Nature, Wind [b]Eye Type:[/b] Any [b]Primary Range:[/b] Shamrock, Peacock, Hunter [b]Primary Gene Range:[/b] Any [b]Secondary Range:[/b] [u]Radioactive Only[/u] [b]Secondary Gene Range:[/b] Alloy, Facet, Stripes, [b]Tertiary Range:[/b] [u]Radioactive Only[/u] [b]Tertiary Gene Range:[/b] [u]Runes Only[/u] [rule] [rule]

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Have you given me a dragon and want to stay up to date with what I'm doing with them? Or you're just curious and want to read up on how well (or not well) my breeding projects are going? Well, good news! I have now made a log of my breeding projects, which you can find by clicking this link!
There, you can see all the ones I'm currently working on, the closest dragons I have so far, which dragons I'm breeding together and any updates on new hatchlings or dragons!

May I offer these 2? [img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/539164/53916359_350.png[/img] [img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/539164/53916360_350.png[/img]

@CrazyDragy

Thank you for the offer!
I'm not sure either of them are close enough, but I appreciate it. ^-^

^^ Not a problem! If you ever feel like they could be what you're looking for hit me up

[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=55446304] [img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/554464/55446304_350.png[/img] [/url Got this guy for dragon one.

@vanillaicecream1

He's very elegant, and his primary is very close, but the secondary and tertiary are a bit further out for breeding with. I'll keep him in mind if I find a mate who could narrow the band a bit, though!

Oh sorry! Just realized you wanted brown for secondary and teterary...